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10 week old blue and gold refussing formula not pumping

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Blu

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I know so many times this has been brought up but ive done everything I can think of to intice him to pump she weighs 975 cc this morning before feeding, in order to feed her I hold the front of her beek and pump for her as she sligtly bites down on my finger and she took all 90 cc this morning before she pulls away but she wont pump.
She only pumps the first 10 cc or 20 cc then stops and wont go any more till I hold her beek and pump for her and slowly put formula in, she has never asperated the formula as I take my time, I only started to pump for her when she only would take about 20 cc's.

She does eat broken up pellets and we are now going to start with a lot more vegies and fruits as many as possible including soaking pellets in water and take the toys out of the cage as I beleive she is in the beginning stages of weining.

Her droppings are perfect and her weight has dropped from about 1050 to 975 and so far maintained that 975.
Now we did have our 8 week old blue throat in the same cage and now we have seperated the two as every time I put the two together the blue and gold wants to start feeding the blue throat, just this morning I put the two together and the blue and gold started to try and regurgitate.

Now the blue throat is 800 cc and getting 55 cc each feeding 4 times a day but wont pump more than that so we are also going to start putting weining food in the cage to her as well.

Now we did have them shipped in this last saturday from back east 6 hour flight and sense that day the blue and gold has never pumped for me and the blue throat has and has done very good but now she is slowly backing down to where I now feed her 4 times a day of 55cc instead of the 70 to 80 cc she would take first day or two.
Both have very clean awsome homes and temp is around 85 deg where they are at and due to shortage of Zupreem we gave them what we could get till this last Tuesday we gave them Hagen formula which the blue throat never minded but both where rasied on Zupreem so we first thought it was just the formula but now with the Zupreem the blue throat is still showing same signs and the blue throat is slowing down.
The temp given to each in feeding is right about 109 deg to 106.
As they where being rasied the breeder would give in each feeding one 1/4 teaspoon of applesause and also plain yogart so I carried on that till last night where I now put in applesauce and a natural bacterial additive I got from the bird store that replaces the yogart.

I beleive these are signs of weining due to the crap load of reading Im doing and also from my past experiances with rasing birds.
They also both climb all over their cages the blue and gold when I pull him from the cage he flaps his wings very hard to try and lift off, the blue throat flaps her wings in side the cage all the time, but not outside her cage.

The blue throat shows signs of being still timid but is slowly warming up to us more and more, the blue and gold we can do anything to her but both always want to go back to the cages everytime we get them out unless we take the cage out of sight.
We prune them and cuddle them to death.

Any help would be great if any out their has any to add.
 
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Greycloud

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Welcome Bret!:D
I am bumping this for you. I do hope everyone can welcome Bret and give advice now that he has these babies in his care. I do not have experience with handfeeding macaws or their requirements.
 

Macawnutz

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Sounds like a bacterial or fungal infection to me. You need to have them checked by an avian vet. Simple fecal sample and mouth swab for gram stain testing. Please do this and don't think it is just weaning. I know from MUCH experience. 109 degrees is a bit warm IMO, I feed at 105.
 

Jaybird

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I feed in the 107-104 stage. 110-104 IS considered safe, so don't stress too much about that. However, I agree with Sarah. It sounds like an infection, and now I DEFINITELY say that both macaw chicks should be seen.
 

Blu

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I feed in the 107-104 stage. 110-104 IS considered safe, so don't stress too much about that. However, I agree with Sarah. It sounds like an infection, and now I DEFINITELY say that both macaw chicks should be seen.
Vet vist was already on for tomarrow at the university as we only had the DNA done on both as I wanted to be the one to take them in for all blood work etc, I only trust my vet.
One thing was to mention the first day we got them the blue and gold did have a smelly stool but that has now gone, I already have antibiotics but will not give unless my vet says I need to.

I cant express how hard it is with birds as you all know they hide this stuff well and I do want to mention the blue and gold at noon today I put some broken up Zupreem pellets, mix of nut blend, vegi blend, and fruit blend and once I set them in the cage she jumped right down fast to get some, the fastest Ive seen her do so.
She has been eating them slow ever sense Ive had her, Ive just now started to introduce same to the blue throat and she does play with it more but does get a little down in her crop.
both bird droppings are coming out perfect with all three items seperated pure white, clear and slighty green poo.

I agree with the vet check as it eleminates the questions.
Also at noon I wanted to see how well the blue and gold would eat so I mixed up 50 cc's of zupreem and the blue and gold pumped better and I was able to get in 30 cc with him pumping it, after 30cc she stopped preaty much.
 

Macawnutz

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http://forums.avianavenue.com/bird-...lue-gold-wants-only-water-need-new-ideas.html

Your story sounds so close to mine.... Please do those tests. I did not even finish this thread because he finally got so ill he was hospitalized. We had three different vets and his illness lasted until he was about 6 months old. Finally after repeated tests they found AGY and it was almost too late. Choose a good vet!!! I had three vets and am now on my fourth. (finally have one I like) I started this thread to get new ideas because my vets were not finding enough.
 

Bokkapooh

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Mera came to me at 9 weeks old. She was handfeeding fine at her breeders place. The long flight and change in environment made her a bit stressed. However her first week home with me she started to wean herself. I had to feed several times a day and I was lucky to get 30-60ccs in her. Another week later she was 11 weeks old and flying. They do start to cut back their feedings as they get nearer their flying date. Which I recommend allowing them to learn to fly;):) Mera weaned at 5.5 months old. However since you have a 8 week old, which shouldn't be cutting itself on it feedings, and the two were housed and shared mouth germs, its very likely it can be a bacterial or fungal infection. Please do not use any at home antibiotics. Antibiotics are made up fresh for each individual case. It goes by their body weight. And they only stay fresh during the 14 day prescription time.
 

TheBeesKnees

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Sarah really knows her stuff when it comes to macaws. She and Mercedes and many others on here have helped me so much with Sozzie's first year home. I agree with them. Sozzie NEVER acted the way you're describing, and I am thinking it sounds WAY too much like Sarah's situation with Korbel to take any chances. Please keep us posted!! :hug8:
 

Blu

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Well today the birds are at the university bella our blue and gold weighed 930 grams on wed and this morn she climbed up to 945 and jade our blue throat stayed the same at 800 grams.
I am leaning more toward them weaning more so for bella and after the check up today and all test come back we will know if they are healthy or not.
As far as the Dr who we trust to look over our birds I do know for a fact she is very very good at what she does, she also teaches the students at the university.
If any of our two babies have any issues she will find it without a dought.
The better part of using Dr finch is they do all test on site, noting is sent out to be tested like you have to do with regular vets, we get results back almost same day, and the price is way lower than a vets office.

I will try and post some pics of these two when I get a chance.
And I will keep everyone posted on these two's results.
 

Kia

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Macaws do not wean at 10 weeks old from my experience? I hope it is nothing serious. Please keep us posted and best of luck.
 

Greycloud

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Bret, I just wanted to bring this to light from another thread you posted on:

"We just had a B&G pass away couple weeks ago at only 12 weeks"

My question is, did this new baby come from the same breeder as the one who passed from PDD?
Did you sterilize everything that this deceased baby was exposed to before introducing new babies?
Are you sure this B&G baby weighed 1500g and dropped down to 975g? 1500g is a very big baby.

Just wondering about the safety of your new babies.
 

Blu

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Macaws do not wean at 10 weeks old from my experience? I hope it is nothing serious. Please keep us posted and best of luck.
Ive now read about 2 books worth on the internet and come to find out the ave is 10 to 14 weeks they start, bella is eating pellets in-between feedings and also yesterday started to eat soft foods.
When I went home yesterday to feed afternoon before I mixed up some formula to feed I threw some smashed up pellets on a towel and she jumped off her perch and ran over to the pellets and started to eat them.
Bella is a larger macaw based on what Ive seen, she has a bigger head than normal but not large, and for a 10 week old stands very tall, sexy long legs,LOL.
I do know for a fact she is started the weaning stages.
Every time I take her out of her cage she flaps her wings really hard and long.
She did gain 15 grams sense yesterday and I started to add some natural weight gainer yesterday and that may of help her gain 15 grams so after the doc visit I will keep everyone posted.
But I truly agree any time a bird shows abnormal signs no matter what they should be checked out just to make sure, it eliminates the unkown.
 

Blu

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Bret, I just wanted to bring this to light from another thread you posted on:

"We just had a B&G pass away couple weeks ago at only 12 weeks"

My question is, did this new baby come from the same breeder as the one who passed from PDD?
Did you sterilize everything that this deceased baby was exposed to before introducing new babies?
Are you sure this B&G baby weighed 1500g and dropped down to 975g? 1500g is a very big baby.

Just wondering about the safety of your new babies.
Ooops a typo, I will go fix that, she weigh about 1050 when we first got her and yes yes yes it took us 2 half weeks to turn the house upside down as directed by the Dr.
We used water and bleach and threw out almost everything that could hold anything left over by blu, we did go over board but we did not want to take a chance, even the vents where cleaned and also carpets steam cleaned twice walls vacumed, wiped down, in fact it would take a book to show what we did to clean and sterilize our home for the new ones.

The blue and gold showed signs from the time she got off the plane had not even been to our home yet, and no we did not buy from same breeder who did offer to replace Blu but we asked for our money back instead.

The Doc just told me she is in the beginning stages of weaning and should continue to do what Ive been doing but she wants to wait on the blood work for a month to give the birds a chance to calm down into there new inviroment, and is doing a physical and stool test and also crop tests.

Ill keep everyone posted but so far so good at the Doc office.
The doc said the trip to us alone can cause birds to get sick and over time and a little help and a good diet they will get back to normal which I knew already.
Blu's death is been very hard on the family and made us very aware of the crap that goes on in the avian world I joined this site to extend my learning.
If I do any more reading my eye's are going to pop out of my head.

Ive found out by all the reading that to many things get blown out of reality but we should treat these birds as birds and listen to them more and educate ourselves more before we take on one of these birds.
Ive also found out most breeders are the cause of most of the issues out their as they dont want everyone jumping into breeding and take profits away so they troll sites and make things worse than they are.
When I read people should never buy before a bird is weaned, part of this is true but then again anyone willing to take on the learning and understanding and challenge should never be frightened to do so.
I cant count how many times Ive gone to 2 or 3 people and ask questions only to go to 2 or 3 others and have them tell me something totally diffrent.
So I take it all in and find that happy medium in the end it always comes down to what my doc says period.
 

Greycloud

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Good to hear!:D
 

Blu

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Well both of their exams went great doc says they look very good and both stool and crop test show normal signs and are in good condtion she is positive the blue and gold is starting her weaning stage and to continue her on the daily process Im doing to wean her as for the blue throat which she almost didnt let her go home (doc wanted to keep her)LOL said she is perfect weight and no issues at all.
I will be setting up a heat pad on both bird cages and set them up in a way that keeps them from chewing on it, I have some pexy glass that will work, we live in a canyon that cools down a lot at night to about 70 to 75 where they live.
So for now she wants to see both birds in a month for blood work when they calm down and get more used to their new home.

It sure is nice to know all is good but we will still watch close to anything and now its back to reading more.:dance4:

Oh here ya all go as I know everyone loves a great picture, what more could you ask for, a friend lending a wing.
As for me when that blue throat fluffs up her feather on her head when you rub her down is to die for.
 

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Macawnutz

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Watch them like a hawk! Weigh everyday at the same time. Every morning after the first big poop. They should not lose more than 10-15% of their body weight. If they do it is more than weaning. My vet sent me home 3 times saying "he is fine" "all tests perfect" "come back later"..... I went to another vet..... "he is fine" ..... I demanded more done after the baby continued to lose weight two days later he was hospitalized. They still could not figure it out. Watch those babies. Especially if you are not familiar with handfeeding baby macaws.
 

Blu

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Watch them like a hawk! Weigh everyday at the same time. Every morning after the first big poop. They should not lose more than 10-15% of their body weight. If they do it is more than weaning. My vet sent me home 3 times saying "he is fine" "all tests perfect" "come back later"..... I went to another vet..... "he is fine" ..... I demanded more done after the baby continued to lose weight two days later he was hospitalized. They still could not figure it out. Watch those babies. Especially if you are not familiar with handfeeding baby macaws.
Thanks for the advice and Dr finch who I use always makes me feel like we have to watch the birds like a hawk she has a saying "something always goes wrong with macaws" she says its just a matter of time so everyone should make it a pratice with these birds to have them in every 6 months as new babies and once a year after the first two years she says.
I agree its not for the faint of heart for macaw owners but the rewards out weigh the con's.
In a month we are already going back for the blood work as she wants to see the birds once they have a chance to settle in as blood work can come back with high levels during stress times.

Oh with this family the birds are going to be more than watched like a hawk, they are already spoiled.LOL
 
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