Would you you buy a hybrid?

[jmfleish]

Just because I said that doesn't mean I want one to find me!

 

[jmfleish]

I think another thing you have to remember is that the way we separate these birds is based on what we think, it doesn't necessarily mean that there really are some number of sub species, that just happens to be how some categorize it. It's all natural selection and I guess, from a geologist stand point, it just doesn't matter to me all that much. If you are choosing to really well natured parrots that do well in captivity to bring about an offspring, I think that's the best we can do for any bird living in captivity, regardless of subspecies. That should be the ultimate goal unless you are breeding to put some back into the wild that are going extinct...then it doesn't make sense to hybridize at all. Any bird that is going extinct that can be paired up should be paired up. In the same instance, there are more males than females in some of these more threatened species such as the PRV2 so you may have males that cannot find a female to pair them up with.

 

[finchly]

If these are the hybrids that I think they are... I feel really bad for these birds... so many health issues! And who knows how much is due to being hybrids vs poor care! From what I gather, they were not intentional at first, but after it happened, it became a project of hers. Then she got sick, couldn't care for her flock, and dumped the birds... right after people started going nuts about what the conures were.

I don’t really know what they are but it sounds about right!

Yes, maybe they are just so suave that they convince those of the 30+ other species that they are worth it! "Once you go society..."

OMG

 

[faislaq]

Thank you for that article @Monica. I enjoyed it.

 

[Monica]

I don’t really know what they are but it sounds about right!

Birds born with foot, wing, tongue deformities.. some with brain issues or other problems. "Conan Conures" was the name given to them. It's probably best they ended up in rescue rather than in another breeder's aviary where the health issues could be made worse in future offspring.


If there's any possibility that the offspring would be less healthy than the parent species, then I'm definitely against it.

 

[finchly]

Birds born with foot, wing, tongue deformities.. some with brain issues or other problems. "Conan Conures" was the name given to them. It's probably best they ended up in rescue rather than in another breeder's aviary where the health issues could be made worse in future offspring.


If there's any possibility that the offspring would be less healthy than the parent species, then I'm definitely against it.

Me too.....and I see now what you are saying. Slow heart rates, tremors, etc.? Like these?

 

[Just-passn-thru]

My Sunshine Senegal is an absolutely beautiful bird and is apparently the species equivalent of a mut!

Designer Bird !

 

[karen256]

I wouldn't get a intergeneric hybrid, or buy from a breeder who intentionally raises them.
Those are the ones that can have health issues, especially when there's a size difference between the two species.

But hybrids between closely related species or subspecies, I just don't see a problem with it if it's done for the right reasons. Our pet birds are very unlikely to ever be used to repopulate their species in the wild. A lot of species we keep as pets were only ever imported in small numbers and after generations of breeding, are becoming unhealthy and inbred. A little careful outcrossing to a closely related species could result in much healthier birds. (For example, someone had a painted/GCC hybrid - painted conures are known for being very sweet, wonderful birds but females are usually infertile now - so it could make sense to cross with a healthy species like a GCC rather than lose painted conures as pets entirely).
And I can also certainly understand why people might want to get hybrid macaws over pure species, with the risk of more regulations on species.

Breeding just to make a unique looking bird or a pretty color, though, I dont really agree with that.

 

[Monica]

Tanya, that's them!

Sadly, the rescue didn't know anything about these birds. Even their vet wasn't sure what they were. They are aware now, since they are intergeneric hybrids. I've made mention of them on this forum before, too.

 

[MandaExotics]

Sort of off topic but in the tarantula hobby if you breed hybrids the people in the hobby will shun you. They're all about breeding healthy and viable spiders to produce the next spider generation. Taranutlas are a lot easier to care for than birds and people who own them often own hundreds of healthy, well cared for spiders with no issues so there's never really any unwater spider babies

The tarantula hobby and avian owners are different in general. If I used latin names on this forum I'd be criticized for it, if I used common names on a tarantula forum I'd be criticized for it. I've seen that happen before. I think latin names do make it easier so there is no lack in confusion on which species is being referred to usually but I go by with whatever is the norm for the community as it doesn't bother me either way. I think why it might be such a stigma in the tarantula community is there's no specific reason to breed hybrids: tarantulas come in all shapes and colors so you really don't have to pick which trait you want and feel like you settled for a species because, as you stated, they're easy to keep and you can just own multiple tarantulas easily. You don't breed tarantulas for personality either as handling is pretty much pointless (and what I would consider reckless if it's an OW species).

The likelihood of me buying a bird from a breeder in the future is slim to none so I'm not sure this question applies to me. All of the cats I've adopted have been mixed breeds and the adoptable birds that are hybrids need homes too. I see nothing wrong with adopting a mixed breed/species.

 

[Hana Baig]

Although I don't support the cause, I clicked yes because birds still a bird, and its not THEIR faults their hybrids. I don't know why but I kind of feel bad of the the amount of people that said no. The breeder might not be getting that many sales, but he can get money somewhere else, but whats going to happen to the birds?Just the thought of them rotting in a cage waiting to find a fabulous owner to love and care for them breaks my heart. Like is stated before, birds are still birds, they have feelings and they need homes just as much as a purebreds do. And again I don't support the cause either, I just want all birds to have great homes and live happy lives, but unfortunately that's not how life works.

 

[jmfleish]

The likelihood of me buying a bird from a breeder in the future is slim to none so I'm not sure this question applies to me. All of the cats I've adopted have been mixed breeds and the adoptable birds that are hybrids need homes too. I see nothing wrong with adopting a mixed breed/species.

I think that's why people in the avian community are a little more high strung about parrots...with parrots, each species is different with different genetics. We don't have breeds in parrots. For cats and dogs, all cats are the same species, Felis catus or Canis lupus familaris. A Cockatoo is part of a family and broken up into genus and then species and sub species. A Galah is a totally different species than a Cockatiel or a Goffin's, etc. They are not all of a single species Parrot...they are listed as completely separate species. Of course, this is just the human way we break down animals and has been around for over 100 years. They are learning more as the study the actual genetics of each parrot which can change how we look at them and our ancient way of grouping them.

 

[cassiesdad]

I've suspected that Milton might be some sort of U2 hybrid. He's very small for an adult male umbie...and there a lot of yellow on the reverse of his wing feathers. His body is thinner than most other U2s I've seen up close...I don't know...

 

[faislaq]

Milton is too smart! I suspect alien, not hybrid.

 

[TikiMyn]

Milton is too smart! I suspect alien, not hybrid.

Me too!

 

[finchly]

Tanya, that's them!

Sadly, the rescue didn't know anything about these birds. Even their vet wasn't sure what they were. They are aware now, since they are intergeneric hybrids. I've made mention of them on this forum before, too.

Ohhh boy. That's awful, because the owners are ending up with *problems* and they were unaware. Not the rescue's fault I guess, if they didn't know....but sad.

Milton is too smart! I suspect alien, not hybrid.

Agreed!

 

[MandaExotics]

I think that's why people in the avian community are a little more high strung about parrots...with parrots, each species is different with different genetics. We don't have breeds in parrots. For cats and dogs, all cats are the same species, Felis catus or Canis lupus familaris. A Cockatoo is part of a family and broken up into genus and then species and sub species. A Galah is a totally different species than a Cockatiel or a Goffin's, etc. They are not all of a single species Parrot...they are listed as completely separate species. Of course, this is just the human way we break down animals and has been around for over 100 years. They are learning more as the study the actual genetics of each parrot which can change how we look at them and our ancient way of grouping them.

I understand your point and I can see why mixing species is controversial. The breeding different species is a controversy in hamsters and snakes as well. Finding a winter white hamster that hasn't been mated with another species can be difficult and not everyone realizes that the different dwarf hamsters are different species and not breeds. Of course, burmese pythons X ball python hybirds exist and there is some controversy around that topic as well.

 

[javi]

Don't forget that cockatoos are also separated into a subgenus.

 

[cassiesdad]

Milton is too smart! I suspect alien, not hybrid.

...could be... he does some unusual things now and then...

 

[javi]

So a citron crested and a goffin are in the same genus but are separated by a subgenus then to species