Wing flipping, toe tapping, biting feet

[KatieF]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forums. I have a beautiful 3 year old Eclectus named Jasper. He's incredibly smart, sweet, and I love him to death.

I stumbled across these forums when doing a Google search, and actually this thread is what I've been reading through (having the same issue with Jasper) Toe Tapping and Wing Flipping | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

He had wing flipping for a few days, then one night when I got back from work he had extreme wing flipping, toe tapping, and he had picked his feet terribly. Hes had 3 vet appointments, xrays, crop wash, fecal test, and no one knows what's wrong.

He's on a cocktail of medication twice a day. Celebrex, Gabapentin, Clindomicin (sp) and an anti-fungal.

He's had cases of toe tapping wing flipping in the past, however it has been well over a year since those cases, and he's never picked his feet before. It's just awful and heartbreaking.

He's been on meds for 2 weeks now and was doing better, feet were healing, then Monday he had another bad day. Wing flipping and toe tapping again (mild-moderate) and he picked new spots on his feet. He's never bled thankfully but he picks the skin so he has flaps sticking up and it's a bit fleshy looking.

My vet is saying could be PDD, could be an infection, could be heavy metal toxicity, she simply doesn't know. We re-did his xrays (last ones 2 years ago) and she told me his proventriculus was mildly enlarged. However, when I compare both xrays and layer them on top of each other in Photoshop I'm simply not seeing it. I am waiting to receive them in the mail so I can get a second opinion. I will be paying $160 soon for a 30 min phone consult with a vet in the US who is known to be excellent, and also there's a University an hour away from here for Avian vets/etc (where I took him the first night in emergency) who I want a second opinion from as well.

Jasper is also having a very heavy molt right now, started a few days ago. Losing ~20 feathers a day poor guy is having too much at once.

If anyone happens to have any info would be so greatly appreciated. The vet bills are killing me and we're no closer to an answer I'm also a part of another parrot forum so I'm reaching out everywhere hoping someone might be able to help.

Thank you

 

[KatieF]

Some images of him The cone is off now. He could still reach his feet and he went insane with it on.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@EkkieLuv - Can you help this person.

I know little about wing flipping and toe tapping, but what I do know is that it is usually caused by #1 diet and #2 an allergy.

I hope some of our Ekkie experts will come on soon to help you.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Here is a thread you can read and see if you recognize anything for your bird. Unfortunately Birdiemarie is no longer active on the forum.

Toe Tapping and Wing Flipping | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[KatieF]

Much appreciated thank you

 

[Sarahmoluccan]

Hi that's such a heartbreaking story. I have a self mutilator myself and know how difficult it can be. My guy is a Moluccan. I'm afraid I can't help you much. I will say I know of no collar that will stop them from biting their toes. Also I see that using a cream. I've used that one too I forget the name of it Flame something. My guy can be picky about creams, he did tolerate that one well thou. But I can give the name of another one (I can't think of name off the top of my head) if you find your guy isn't tolerating that cream well.

Best of luck to you and Jasper

 

[Hankmacaw]

PS - my girl GW is named Jasper also. That's hank to the left - he died five years ago.

 

[KatieF]

Thanks Sarah. I still can't believe this is happening. In-between all of it he's had very good days where he initiates play, talks like crazy and I've even been able to do training with him. I just want him to get better. When he was a baby his first year and a half was plagued with lots of crop infections. He was good for at least a year and a half before all of this started and I'm just sick over it.

I should mention that 2 weeks prior to this incident I noticed a white bump of some sort on the side of his tongue, further back. Only caught a glimpse because it was very difficult to see. Brought him in and it turned out to be an abscess. The vet had to put him under anesthesia because the sedation wasn't enough. Unfortunately halfway through removing it she had to stop b/c his heart rate was fluctuating too much. Makes me wonder if she hadn't given him enough, but anyway she told me she was only able to clean about half of it. He was on antibiotics for 2 weeks after that, and it cleared it up completely.

Then one week later this incident. She thinks maybe it was connected, as with the 2nd vet. That maybe the infection from the abscess traveled down. Like I mentioned she thinks his proventriculus was enlarged so saying the infection could have gone there. But I still want other opinions first, because I'm not seeing what she's seeing, and neither are 2 other medical professionals I've shown them to (although they're not vets....)

Just want him better. Thanks for your support

 

[KatieF]

PS - my girl GW is named Jasper also. That's hank to the left - he died five years ago.

I'm sorry What a beauty. And nice! Jasper doesn't seem to be a common name for birds

 

[JLcribber]

@EkkieLuv - Can you help this person.

I know little about wing flipping and toe tapping, but what I do know is that it is usually caused by #1 diet and #2 an allergy.

I hope some of our Ekkie experts will come on soon to help you.

These are the usual culprits that you should do more investigation on. You really don't want to feed them anything with fortification. Their diet is very important. More so than almost any other bird.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Bump

 

[Milo]

There are mixed opinions out there about whether or not this is a true allergy in eclectus parrots or something else. True allergies in parrots in general are not something that is commonly diagnosed, and my vet will go so far to say that he has never seen them definitively diagnosed. I do think that there can be sensitivities to pellets, specifically those with different sources of vitamin A. An excess of vitamin A can cause hyperactivity and abnormalities in the skin, and could lead to neurologic pain and symptoms like the tapping/flipping and picking that you're seeing. My boy eats Harrison's pellets as his primary diet and does excellent, I tried to switch brands and I noticed some wing flipping within a few days, switching back solved the issue.

I'm glad he's doing better since he's been on the meds! I wouldn't worry too much about the proventriculus being slightly enlarged, this is a very common finding in eclectus (I think that comment has been made on every one that we've seen x-rayed in our clinic, including my boy). Making sure the abscess is taken care of is something I would also recommend, but it can be scary with the anesthesia. He could have been too light or he could have also been in trouble, it's very hard to say. If they have someone experienced monitoring the anesthesia I would trust what they said. They could try a heavier sedation next time instead of using an inhalant, parrots are very tolerant of higher doses of sedation and they might be able to get everything done.

 

[EkkieLuv]

@EkkieLuv - Can you help this person.

I know little about wing flipping and toe tapping, but what I do know is that it is usually caused by #1 diet and #2 an allergy.

I hope some of our Ekkie experts will come on soon to help you.

Sorry - just now seeing this. School is in session and I teach so no free time during the day!! Correct that diet and/or allergies can be the culprit. I know quite a few ekkie people that have been able to clear up TT/WF with eliminating common allergens from their diet. Some ekkies I've heard of are so sensitive to certain things (typically soy, corn, wheat) that even having a small amount, will set them off. Another common occurrence I've heard of is too much fortified food - leads to hypervitaminosis, which can cause TT/WF as well. These ekkies can typically not tolerate any pellets at all. Artificially colored food or pellets have also been said to lead to TT/WF much like the overload of vitamins can. While some do fine with some pellets, some just don't. I don't feed pellets here. Once in a while I'll give the boys a spoonful of our little conure's seed/pellet mix and one of my ekkies did start TT after I'd given him some a couple days in a row. He doesn't get it anymore - and no more tapping - so I am predicting it was the pellets since that's the only thing that changed.

I have personally only experienced TT/WF due to minor toe/foot injuries on two different occasions with two different ekkies. Both times it resolved itself with some metacam and a little time.

I'm curious to know if your vet has discovered signs of bacterial or fungal infections that prompted the Clindomicin and anti-fungal drugs or if they're just shooting in the dark because it hasn't been figured out yet. My apologies if I missed that info above. I read through quickly.

I'd venture to say that him picking at his feet could have started with some sort of irritation - whether that could be in the joints or on the skin, I don't know. Was it ever fully healed and if so did the TT/WF stop?

 

[clawnz]

Did I miss what the diet is your feeding?

Sorry if I did that, you know how some of us do not bother reading every post or even all of a post.
I do not claim to be anyone special.
But from what I assumed from what I did read. Could well be from fortified foods, and or supplements.
If that is not the case, then you need to consider what you are feeding and take each item out of the diet for a few weeks at least.
You may find the trigger.
Behavior issues are becoming known from supplemented foods. Consider A Pellet as no better than a Pep Pill. and in most circumstances way too concentrated for an Eccy.
If you are not sprouting, please consider this.
You can look sprouting up here.
Sprouting Easy or Complicated? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

I feed Zero pellets, zero fortified foods, zero supplements.
What I do feed is fresh sprouts everyday, fruit, veg, seed mix, and some days nuts and dried fruit.
But it is important to note my guys are active birds, so tend to burn it off.

I also have a very interesting story about Marshall I will post in the Eclectus thread. It may interest a few owners.

Sorry no pics here, due to Photobucket issue.
But you can find Happy Healthy Parrots (No Pellets) on facebook. Or my Claws Fids. Both should have details, that may help you, including pictures.

 

[jmfleish]

Diet is definitely the first thing I'd be looking at. The only time I've ever seen wing flipping or toe tapping in my Ekkies after nearly 14 years is if I feed too much protein. If you are giving too much egg or meat of any kind, that can do it. Also to caution you, medications can exasperate the situation as well. I also try to stay away from all processed foods except the Roudybush pellets I give my current two. They get a small amount of the pellets because I'm too scared not to give it to them, but I haven't had toe tapping or wing flipping in either one of them because of diet. I had TT/WF in Cooper when he was on medications due to a surgery about six years ago. I've never had it in Wylee. I had it in Cooper's other brother, Taco due to too much protein about ten years ago. I'd really look at diet.

 

[BirdGuy21]

I would also take a look at your guys diet. As everyone has mentioned they are very sensitive to fortified foods. Seems like there might be a few issues, considering the absecess. Maybe some of the root cause can be found in too much artificial foods?