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wing clipping do or dont??

Linearis

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I do not understand doing it for the reason you first mention.......how can a bird trust you faster, better or easier after you have grabbed it and removed it's ability to protect itself by flying away? This will make taming and bonding harder as you have the hurdle of lost trust (that had not yet been gained) and also confidence issues after clipping. Also if you think people should go at the birds pace then clipping it's wings is going completely against the birds time frame and pace for trust building and friendship. JMHO on wing clipping for taming :)
Not sure if you read the whole post but I'm against clipping lol. The logic of first part though (I'm just repeating what others have said) is that the bird is more dependant on you and will rely on you more. And since you're given more opportunity to handle them as a result then they can more easily see that you play nice when they're perched on you. Personally, the idea of having a bird need to rely on you more because you got wings clipped seems like an abusive mentality in of itself but that's the logic of it. For my bird, she definitely does rely on me more, but I for one can't wait for her wings to grow back so she can do more things easily by herself... I got shizz to do.
 

TikiMyn

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Aw man, I've never heard of them pulling flight feathers for DNA tests! How awful. I had feather DNA tests done for my lovebirds, Rowan, and Highrise, but the feathers they required were just little ones from the birds' chests. Not nearly so painful as pulling out a big feather. :( About as much resistance as yanking a hair from your head, and none of my fids even cried when they were pulled.
I got to choose, 5-7 small ones or two bigger ones! I thought,well, better two larger ones then as it can’t Be comfy but that was a mistake!
 

TikiMyn

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Not sure if you read the whole post but I'm against clipping lol. The logic of first part though (I'm just repeating what others have said) is that the bird is more dependant on you and will rely on you more. And since you're given more opportunity to handle them as a result then they can more easily see that you play nice when they're perched on you. Personally, the idea of having a bird need to rely on you more because you got wings clipped seems like an abusive mentality in of itself but that's the logic of it. For my bird, she definitely does rely on me more, but I for one can't wait for her wings to grow back so she can do more things easily by herself... I got shizz to do.
That is exactly the problem, making a bird mkre dependant does not build trust, the bird ‘listens’ to you because she is defenseless. You are totally right in thinking it seems wrong, it is and it is not the road to good trust. Fëanor was clipped terribly when I adopted him. I had to take Many precautions to make sure I did not force him to do anything.
 

Linearis

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That is exactly the problem, making a bird mkre dependant does not build trust, the bird ‘listens’ to you because she is defenseless. You are totally right in thinking it seems wrong, it is and it is not the road to good trust. Fëanor was clipped terribly when I adopted him. I had to take Many precautions to make sure I did not force him to do anything.
Yeah I expect my bird's demeanour to change a least slightly when she can fly, but I want her to be more confident. I mean lately she's been flying a bit but I'm happy it's been towards me and not away from me. xD I almost always give her the option of coming to me or not but sometimes like if I have to go somewhere outside, and she needs to be in her cage (because the room is not 100% birdie proof...) I have to put her back in even though she wants to play more and I'm kinda worried about that. :/ Obviously I need recall training and worst comes to worsts I can always pull out the millet card but yeah...
 

clawnz

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My vet just plucked a few chest feathers for a DNA. It was not painful at all.
Yes! For DNA testing. That is all you need to do. DO Not take Flight feathers.
Taking bloody is easy if you know what and how, to do.
A fine needle just in front of the toe nail, and take a very tiny drop that forms.
Let it dry and send off.
 

Lady Jane

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@clawnz how many lovely bird do you have in your life? Are they mostly Cockatiels? I would love to take in a senior Cockatiel but alas I live in a small senior apartment that has room for only one cage.
 

clawnz

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@clawnz how many lovely bird do you have in your life? Are they mostly Cockatiels? I would love to take in a senior Cockatiel but alas I live in a small senior apartment that has room for only one cage.
I try to keep my flock down to around 12.
Which is at the moment, 7 Cockatiels, 3 Eclectus, 1 Alexandrine.
Most are adoptions, rehomes.

But if you are asking how many birds do I have in my life!
Well that is one I cannot put a number on.
As I help people with their birds. From sorting general advice, boarding, and helping with rehoming.
I know last Christmas Holidays, I had 20 birds board, lucky this was not all at once though.
Cannot give you a clue on how many I help with rehoming a year.
 

clawnz

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That is exactly the problem, making a bird mkre dependant does not build trust, the bird ‘listens’ to you because she is defenseless. You are totally right in thinking it seems wrong, it is and it is not the road to good trust. Fëanor was clipped terribly when I adopted him. I had to take Many precautions to make sure I did not force him to do anything.
My Alexandrine is text book of how heck*** U* they get. (Sorry I know of no other word that says it like it is)
He was clipped for the first 5yrs.
I also know he was, and still is badly over humanised.
But when I took him in his confidence sucked. It has taken well over 2yrs to restore that.
Working on his atrophied flight muscles over 3yrs and watch him fly is sad.
We can do 20ft, but not twice straight off.
But at least he is learning to fly with control. Man it has been a long road to get to where he is now.
He still cannot descend well. Only reason he gets lower, is he is out of strength.
He is only 9yrs old.

Remember a Human did this to him.
 

TikiMyn

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Ahw:( I am so glad I could work through Fëanor’s lost confidence fairly quickly:heart: He could fly with his butchered wings after Some time and that helped a lot already, with building muscle too:) Henkie was kept in a cage he coudln’t fly in with one clipped wing before coming to me, and was besides trained to bite. I remember the first time he tried to fly(he had been snatched up in a pet shop where his wings was clipped, and after that he didn’t have an opportunity to find out untill with me), he was shocked and sat on the floor panting in panick. Both are excellent fliers now, they go straight up like a helicopter, hover, drop themselves almost straight down and fly Tiny distances backwards even!:heart:
 

lexalayne

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76CF53C2-4090-4A07-BC39-DF0012670112.jpeg F7431643-FF6A-459A-9D26-3A6D847DB19F.jpeg I have a 30 year old umbrella cockatoo who cannot fly. She flutters down if startled but cannot fly. Evidently years ago clipping was a regular grooming appt. Also, many breeders then didn't encourage or allow their babies to fledge where now it's common.
I never clip wings now but once years ago with an older Macaw who was stubborn and kind of a bully (liked to chunk your arm after he'd flown to the play trees and he was fast. I had him clipped once in order to ground him a bit. I was also able to work with him easier as he wasn't here there and everywhere. And yes it shook his confidence at the time. And I don't know if thats what made him more receptive to me or if it was the cashews he loved so much that I fed him once he would sit still or maybe little bit of both but he calmed down and stopped chunking my arm. Although through this he did grab my finger instead of the cashew and slowly applied pressure.. can't pull away they grab harder... more pressure and then suddenly let go and went to the corner of his cage. he made his point and things were easier after that but idk it hurt and he was mad. That was the only time I have had any of my birds clipped. And his feathers grew back in quickly. He survived and my family was able to live with him. But no I don't as a rule believe in clipping. And yes I did have it done once. And as u can see above his feathers came back beautifully.
 
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jrockbridge

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Non hookbill birds shouldn't be clipped because they can't climb like parrots
It is true that Mynah birds cannot use their beaks to climb. However, they hop very well from perch to perch.

I have learned that D can hop up and across very well. However, he has trouble hopping down. I've changed his perch arrangement to suit his abilities.

I have pulled out clipped flights more than ten times on parakeets (wing clipped by stores or former owners) and canaries (feathers worn out due to failing to molt - rescue birds.) It takes about three seconds, and the bird can then become fully flighted within four weeks. I did it most recently on a little baby budgie that I found walking around loose outside a Petco in August (dumped, clearly, probably by someone who was not allowed to return him because he has a Petco band.) He was such a sad little guy, totally flightless four weeks ago. All the wing feathers grew back in at once, and now he flies brilliantly around the house and has so much confidence. I am not sure whether the wing feathers of larger birds are as easily detached, I imagine that for them the issue is not as quickly resolved. If it were my mynah I would still attempt to pluck three flights on each wing, at the tips. If those grew back, the bird would have some flight ability within the month. It's not at all healthy to wing clip a mynah as they cannot get around at all that way.

BTW the parakeet hasn't held any grudge. A moment of discomfort is worth the returned mobility IMO.

Birds are supposed to fly.
As I've already said above, Mynah birds get around just fine in a cage because of their ability to hop. In fact, the hopping around is very endearing. But, I've learned that D cannot hop down well. He was never able to fly down in his cage even when he had his full wings. Even though the cage is large, it's not enough room to allow flight for him. Regardless, I regret getting his wings clipped.

D seems to be molting right now. He's losing a lot of his small feathers. He's only about 6 months old at this point and he's doing great. He can say, "What are you doing?" "Hello." and, "I love you." When his feathers grow back, I do NOT plan to clip them again.

Teaching him to fly in this large house with vaulted ceilings is going to be tricky. There are a lot of dangers I'll have to work out including glass doors. I hope it will be worth the risk.
 

juliashmulia

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I didn’t read through all of the replies, but I’m an admin for a large parrot group on Facebook and we get asked this question often. Here is my answer:

Full disclosure, I’m very pro-flight. BUT, as with anything, my take is “you do you”, and I have no interest in shaming or judging anyone.

It’s not a black and white issue, but it’s one that people often come down very strongly on one side of. I’ve researched it endlessly, talked to hundreds of owners both online and in person, read dozens of articles/personal stories, and have a couple decades of experience with both clipped and flighted birds.

I will say there’s no denying that exercise is healthy for all animals, and for a bird, flight is hands down the best form of exercise. No amount of walking or climbing can compare. That said, not all unclipped birds will want to fly. Mine does, both for necessity and for the pure joy of it. For a bird who has the stamina, the muscle build, the coordination, and the skill, flying is fun. It’s instinctual in the wild and taught by parents, but in captivity if a bird is clipped very young they may never learn to fly, and that can cause emotional problems and insecurity later in life.

When I got Silas he had a baby clip (a very light clip they did at the store for safety, after he was fledged). One day he was exploring and he flew into a window in my apartment. I freaked and clipped him, harshly. I cut way too many feathers and I cut them way too short. He dropped like a rock, which is dangerous. A bird that drops like that can crack their keel bone. Within a few days I regretted it. It took a year and a half for the clipped feathers to molt out and new ones to grow. The first time he flew again I was ecstatic. It’s a very personal thing but I just love seeing a bird be able to fly. It makes me happy because I can see clearly that it makes him happy.

The thing I didn’t know is that when a bird is first learning to fly and first in a new environment, a few bumps into windows and walls here and there is perfectly normal, and almost always harmless. You can actually take a bird around your house and let their beak tap each window. They’re smart, and they’ll realize it’s a barrier. Mine did. Since his wings grew back out a few years ago he has never once flown into anything. He’s strong and he’s skilled, but it took time. Babies are clumsy.

You should know that there is a chance that clipping will cause some behavior issues. Birds operate on “fight or flight”, which means that if you rob them of flight, they’re left with one option, which usually means you’re getting bitten. It’s not a guarantee but it’s a possibility.

Here are some additional points to consider...

Pros of full flight:

•Healthier physically—best source of exercise for captive birds. Prevents excessive weight gain, lethargy, cardiological, respiratory, and muscular problems associated with lack of rigorous physical activity

•Healthier psychologically—birds that fly exercise their coordination, quick thinking, and build confidence...flying is intensely mentally stimulating and prevents boredom

•Better for human & parrot relationship—birds that have the means to fly to escape a scary situation are far less likely to bite (flight vs flight)

•Safer around other household pets—a flighted bird is less likely to be injured by cats, dogs, and other predator animals since they can fly to escape, whereas a clipped bird is stuck on the ground once it ends up there

•Can help prevent problem behaviors like screaming and plucking—birds that are flighted are generally less bored and less stressed, and in combination with ample out of cage time, problems like plucking and screaming are less common


Cons (myths) of full flight:


•It’s unsafe indoors—birds that fly can end up crashing into windows, ceiling fans, pots of boiling water, etc.. Truth: birds that are just learning to fly will have minor crashes until they get the hang of it and learn their boundaries. Once they get a feel for it and develop coordination, crashes become rare if not eliminated. As for ceiling fans, pots of water, and other common household dangers, they all apply to clipped birds as well. No bird owner should be cooking or running a ceiling fan while said bird is out of their cage, regardless of whether they’re clipped or not. It’s your responsibility to bird-proof your home

•It’s unsafe outdoors/flighted birds are at risk of escaping out windows and doors. Truth: Again, these apply to clipped birds as well. No bird owner should be opening doors or windows while said bird is out of their cage. If taking a bird outside, a harness or small cage should always be used to prevent bird flying off (clipped birds can fly once they get wind under their wings)

•Full flight makes birds bratty/aggressive/dominant. Truth: a clipped bird is more likely to bite than a flighted one, since a clipped bird has no means of escaping a scary or unpleasant situation (remember, fight or flight). Behavior problems stem from poor husbandry and lack of training.

•A flighted bird won’t want to be on your shoulder or cuddle or spend as much time with you. Truth: first of all, that is absolutely false, but even if it were true, do you really want to *force* your bird to be with you? It’s much more rewarding when you know they’re choosing to sit with you than doing so because they can’t escape

•Flighted birds have the opportunity to fly to and fight with other members of the flock. Truth: this is a legitimate concern. As a Sennie owner, I know all too well how aggressive they can be towards other birds. That should be heavily taken into account when deciding whether to adopt or purchase a new flock member. It’s exactly why I have only one bird. Still, you could always let them out at separate times.

I hope some of this helps you make your decision.
 

Vera

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I didnt read al the posts but wanted to share my story.
My 4 year old parrotlet was clipped since she learned to fly.only a mild clip, she could still fly a few meters but not up and full speed.
When she was 2 years old we decided to let her the feathers grow back. It was lovely.she sometimes followed us around the house.she is more a climber and a lazy bird,so flying was only used when needed.
She became more agressive,biting screaming and attacking. We worked on that and it improved bit by bit. But we did decide to clip again....
My husband is deff on 1 ear. He loves the bird and is very carefull around her, but one day she followed him to the kitchen. He didn't notice her flying after him and the door closed right in front of her and she crashed hard! He came back in the room and almosted stepped on her while she was sitting on the floor after the crash.
She fully recoverd but i have decided to clip again because of this. An accident can happen fast,especially when you cannot hear everything that happens around you.
Also her attitude when fully flighted changed to a territorial and agressive bird. We worked on it and it got better, but after we clipped her mildly again we did see a direct behaviour change. She became more cuddly happy and more relaxed after clipping. She is clipped 4 feathers each side and can still fly a few meters but can't go high or fast.
I think this is safer for her in our home and her behaviour says everything.
 
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