1. Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here
  2. This forum is for advice about initial treatment given to your injured/sick bird until a qualified avian veterinarian is available.
    THIS IS NOT MEANT TO REPLACE VET CARE

Urgent Wholistic Advice Wanted for Sick Budgie

Discussion in 'Bird Emergency Highway 911' started by TinaLoui, 9/19/18.

  1. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui Moving in

    Joined:
    9/19/18
    Messages:
    11
    I have an all-white female budgie named Snowy who has been very sick for about two weeks now.

    We took her to the vet as soon as we noticed something was not right. She was fluffed up and kept nodding off even upon getting her out of the cage. Her poop had been looking a bit yellow for the past two days and we hadn't thought anything of it (though should have known).
    My 10yo usually feeds her once per day but if the seed doesn't look like its all eaten he just gives it a bit of a stir. Problem is we were giving her Coles brand Budgie and Canary mix for the last 12-18months after we moved house. As it didn't contain any vegetable oils I thought it was a good choice plus it had all these added ingredients, pellets etc that I thought would be good for her. As it turns out she has been picking over it all and just eating the millet. I had walked past her cage about a week before she started getting sick and had noticed her seed badly needed changing. I tipped the whole lot out and gave her a fresh containerful. The poor thing was starving she was so keen to get to the seed. She acted very similarly when I switched out her Coles brand seed for some fresh finch mix from the animal produce store, after we discovered she was sick.

    As soon as we noticed she was sick we took her to the vet for some free emergency treatment - 1/2hr in the humidicrib. They wouldn't let me out the back while they examined her and she screamed and screamed. It was so distressing. Apparently they wouldn't let me hold her due to "Workplace Health and Safety" issues in the event that my own pet bit me! (She does this at home anyway!) Anyway, it was such a foreign environment for her that I just wanted to get her back home where I could give her less stressed out care. That and the vet wanted to charge $150 per day to keep her in their hospital.

    I was told that without running tests that believed it was probably a liver problem as I had suspected but that it would cost a minimum of $50-$70 just for their consult, extra for tests etc. I was told that if they kept her in they would likely give her a course of aggressive antibiotics and fluids and then send her home for me to do the same. I declined their antibiotics and said I would prefer to give her colloidal silver which I have been doing for the past week or two. They gave me a little syringe which she gladly accepted fluids from for the first few days before become quite distressed by it so I stopped and just put it in her water container.

    I have been doing my best to keep her in the warmest part of the house each day which has managed to defluff her feathers when she is warm enough. She is still quite sleepy and depressed however with only the very very very occasional chirp.

    Usually quite keen to eat carrot, apple, parsley, milk thistle etc she hasn't wanted any of it since becoming sick. I gave her a piece of orange peel a few weeks ago from a friends farm before realising recently that the orange peels weren't washed....I do wonder if perhaps that could have been a factor as well.

    Whilst I was syringe feeding her I made up lots of goodies in a blender which I fed to her for a day or two before she baulked at it - parsley, chives, milk thistle, broccoli, cauliflower, apple, orange, scrambled egg (no fat or salt added), aloe vera juice, natural apple cider vinegar, cabbage. I have also been syringing or putting aloe vera juice in her liquid. I am unsure if I have been giving the correct dilutions of aloe vera juice/colloidal silver/apple cider vinegar and whether it is OK to mix all three. I have been trying to change the water every 3 days due to the aloe's potential to go bad.

    After all this her poop went from being yellow all over - poop, urates and urine to a light green now dark poop but still yellow urates. Her urine has also at times been yellow. I have taken everything out of her liquid today and just given her straight filtered water (fluoride still left in unfortunately...don't know if that could be making things worse as I know that's not good for humans or animals yet they still add it to our water supply). I have also syringed her some water today. Her urine is looking clearer but I have noticed overnight that her poop is getting quite large now.

    I give her a sock filled with rice and closed with velcro as a heatpack on her perch at night which she seems to appreciate. She climbs up on top of and snuggles up next to her mirror which seems to keep her company. When its taken away and put back in the cage she cheers up slightly and goes to almost talk to it. Usually I just flick the dry poop off the sock but today it was too large and wet that I had to give her a bath to wash it off her feet and feathers.

    I've been told that both the mirror and patting her, whilst she likes it, could be sexually stimulating her and causing her unnecessary stress if she cannot then release her sexual tension. Reluctantly I stopped patting her after this and took the mirror out for a day or tow but to encourage her to sit on the heatpack I reintroduced it. Now that she has the idea I guess I could take it back out again. I also put a towel in the dryer at night to warm it up and place over her cage along with a small baby quilt to keep her well insulated.

    Whilst bathing her today I noticed that her keel is becoming very prominent and her breathing is sounding like a ticking clock. The feathers around her bum are also looking a bit untidy but if shes had diarrohea I guess that is to be expected. What also alarmed me upon placing her back in the cage is that one of her toes on her left claw was pointing a bit sideways. I took her back out to have a look and cleaned up some dried up poo on the toe and could see a red spot nearby and in the crack between the toes. Yesterday she got herself caught on the heatpack as I was placing it in the cage - she gets quite excited and climbs all over it. Her claws have gotten very long...which is my fault for not trimming. I'd trim them now but I am thinking I might need to get a seperate pair of clippers to the household clippers...so I will look into that...but I am not sure whether this is a seperate issue to the general sickness or somehow related. I am also unsure what to do for her toe which now looks rather skewed. I am thinking it may have already been curled before the incident with the heatpack which is what caused her to become hooked in it in the first place.

    I just feel so awful that she is like this....and that it could be a result of something we have or haven't done. We have had her for 5 years but couldn't ascertain exactly how old she is as she was given to us by another family who could no longer have her as a pet for their autistic child as it wasn't working out really well. We were told at the time that she was still a baby but just how young that was we wouldn't know. If I had known things could become so bad and so expensive with even a bird I would not have taken her on as I don't believe in having dogs or cats unless we can afford Pet Insurance. There are no avian vets in our area and the local vet could charge us a fortune for as much of a hit and miss game as we are already taking. I figure if we can work out what the possibilities could be and treat her as though she could have any of those conditions then we are providing the best care for her that we can....in the comfort of her own home without the stress of strange people and noisy cats and dogs. The vet has already advised us that either way this could be a palliative care situation but they certainly weren't expecting her to still be alive after this long.

    Can anyone advise what natural remedies I may be able to offer my bird that I am not already doing or what dilutions I should be using etc?
     
  2. CrazyBirdChick

    CrazyBirdChick Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    12/10/15
    Messages:
    4,420
    Location:
    Chicago , Illinois
    Real Name:
    Diane
    I hope your Snowy will be okay!

    I am with you on using mostly holistic healing and avoiding antibiotics when I can. But I think sometimes antibiotics can not be avoided. The breathing sounds really worry me. If it were my bird I would give them a try.

    I'm sure you'll get some better advice shortly but I just wanted to send good thoughts your way.
     
  3. Crazy4parrots

    Crazy4parrots Rollerblading along the road Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    2/17/13
    Messages:
    3,291
    Location:
    Parrotdise :) lol
    Real Name:
    MarĂ­a
    What country are you in?
     
  4. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor BINGO CHAMPION

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    20,609
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    Unfortunately birds hide illness very well and so by the time they start showing signs it means they are quite sick. And, a vet usually can't tell by looking (even an avian vet) what is wrong without tests. Avian care is often more expensive than cat or dog care because of this, as well as the extra training required. Their prices seem fair; I spent $400 for tests and a check up; the wellness check alone was $92, and I didn't get any meds!

    Respiratory stuff IMO very much requires a vet visit and often antibiotics. It could be anything from nutritional deficiency to something that does require antibiotics. I just rescued a Jardines last month that was on all seeds for 19 years and he has a host of diet related ailments; it can wreak havoc on their bodies, but in particular their respiratory system, reproductive system, and liver to be on all seeds. It sounds like you are trying a lot of good things to help, but if she isn't getting better it is time to see if antibiotics can improve her. They go downhill very quickly sadly, so the sooner you can intervene, the better.

    Holistically, diet can work wonders, but it can take 6+ months for that to work, and she may not have that time.
     
    tka, painesgrey, webchirp and 5 others like this.
  5. Shezbug

    Shezbug ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW! Avenue Spotlight Award I Can't Stop Posting!

    Joined:
    4/28/18
    Messages:
    2,358
    Location:
    Vic, Australia
    I hope everything will be alright with your bird. I can not offer much help but wanted to welcome you to the avenue and just make a few suggestions that may or may not be of help. The members here are very good at finding avian vets so if you mentioned the area you are in they may be able to find you an AV who will have much more knowledge and a better chance at helping your bird. The other thing that caught my attention was how often you said you change your birds water (may not be an issue depending on vessel it is being offered in I guess), bacteria can and will grow in water (food smeared beaks will help this happen) and once something is added to the water it becomes much more important to make sure the water source is always fresh and clean or changed at least once per day.
    It does sound like your poor bird is in a bit of a bad way and I personally think only a vet will be able to help her at this point, she sounds like she is miserable and suffering in some way. Antibiotics should never be overused but there are times when they are the most sensible treatment.
    I hope things get better for you and your bird soon :)
     
  6. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui Moving in

    Joined:
    9/19/18
    Messages:
    11
    Thankyou everyone. She IS on antibiotics, just not the one I have to pay over a hundred dollars for to have prescribed by the vet - I am giving her colloidal silver and apple cider vinegar which are both antibiotics. The vet said that even on their antibiotics there is still no guarantee that she will get better.

    The quote I received was for an ordinary vet not an avian vet. The nearest avian vet is 1.5hrs away. And you're right...the price quoted was just for a short consult. If it went over that time, which it likely would have, it would have cost more. I wasn't even quoted for tests (which would have been extra) as they said they wouldn't perform tests on a bird so sick as the stress of a blood test may likely kill her.
    $400 is a lot of money and such a moral dilemma for a bird that we were given for free.

    The best I've been able to do is do everything I would do if she did have any various diagnosis and treat her for that anyway...it can't do any further harm as its all natural and safe for birds. What is heartbreaking though is that she is reluctant to eating anything other than her seed, now that she is sick, despite being happy before to do so, and to think that we may have done something wrong that has caused this to happen. We were expecting that she was reaching her life expectancy for captivity but can't help but wonder if this is old age related or something we did wrong.

    Hearing various people, such as on Facebook groups etc say that I am giving her the wrong thing treating her with colloidal silver, or aloe vera and that I should be taking her to the vet and giving her the vets antibiotics has also been heartbreaking as I feel guilted that I am some sort of bad pet/irresponsible pet owner despite doing all we knew how to do. As for taking her to the vet....they caused her more stress than if she was at home and wanted to charge me $150 a day to give her their premium care within a humidicrib. I couldn't have afforded to keep her in a humidicrib for the last two weeks but some people will make out like I'm a bad pet owner if I don't spare no expense. I value that the bird is a living creature and if it was truly in her best interest I would consider the vet fee but based on all that the vet told me that they would do for her I am not convinced I can't offer her the same care from home without having to pay hundreds of dollars. Granted I don't have an oxygen tank for her but surely being at home is still less stressful than being in a humidicrib with the stress of noisy dogs and cats and unfamiliar people to stress her out everytime her meds are due. I figure if she doesn't recover from the colloidal silver that she likely wouldn't have recovered from the vet's antibiotics either. But I want to make sure, from those who have treated their birds using these methods that I am doing it right. I am hesitant to even ask for help on these forums due to all the people who just get annoyed that I am not paying the vet for his pharmaceuticals. I am treating my pet the same way I would treat any other member of my household and we haven't used pharmaceutical antibiotics ourselves in over 7 years and hospitals are not a nice place to be when you are sick or dying so I made the decision to bring her home after half an hr to an hour in the humidicrib.

    I am also curious to know if birds sometimes display these symptoms due to old age or if they are always a result of diet. We did give Snowy fruits, vegetables, herbs, milk thistle etc but not necessarily every day or in large and varied quantities like those who prepare daily chop for their birds. We would insert a carrot or an apple, a bit of weed etc. But some days only one of each and not necessarily every day but as we would chop stuff for the family we would add a bit to her cage. I'm now thinking maybe this wasn't enough. Unless the poor quality birdseed that may have made her more hungry was to blame... Just feeling really awful today watching her so sick and wanting to do more...I guess I seek some reassurance that I have done all that I reasonably can....Something that is hard to find when everyone wants to tell me off for not "taking her to the vet"...even though I have spoken with the vet 4 times over the past two weeks and even if I did buy his prescribed antibiotics he did say I might still be providing palliative care.
     
    Sylvester likes this.
  7. Sarahmoluccan

    Sarahmoluccan Rollerblading along the road Moderator Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Spotlight Award

    Joined:
    7/3/16
    Messages:
    4,658
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Real Name:
    Sarah
    I don't think people are telling you to take her the vets to be mean or make you feel bad. I think they are telling you that because that's the reality of the situation. I get that it very expensive. If you can't pay for it, I understand that but I believe the best option for budgie is take the antibiotics vet want you to get. Perhaps you should consider surrendering over to rescue if you can't provide for her. I do feel bad for your situation and I'm sorry you are in this position
     
  8. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui Moving in

    Joined:
    9/19/18
    Messages:
    11
    I am doing the same thing I would do for myself or my own human family giving her natural antibiotics instead of pharmaceutical antibiotics. I am not allowing my bird to go without medical treatment I am just giving her a more natural alternative just as would my own family members. The vet has already admitted that even if I gave her their pharmaceuticals they are not a magic cure-all and she could still be dying. So please spare the judgment here on whether or not I am being a responsible pet owner. My question was not how can I get out of my responsibilities as a pet owner but rather my question is to those who have experience with treating birds wholistically am I doing all that I can?
     
  9. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui Moving in

    Joined:
    9/19/18
    Messages:
    11
    I'd like to edit my initial post...how might I be able to do this...is that possible on this forum?
     
  10. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Joyriding the Neighborhood Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting!

    Joined:
    8/25/12
    Messages:
    15,948
    Location:
    Maryland
    Real Name:
    Dianne
    I am very sorry your little white bird is not well. Treating her with alternate methods does take time. Your bird may not have much time due to malnutrition and other issues. I wish health and healing for your Snowy.
     
  11. webchirp

    webchirp Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Rescue Representative

    Joined:
    8/2/10
    Messages:
    15,098
    Location:
    Ohio
    Real Name:
    Chandra
    I'd definitely head to the avian vet. Different bacterial types respond to different meds. There are gram negative and gram positive. An over abundance of these will require a corresponding medication. A good avian vet can save you time and money.

    For others who may stumble on this post, Colloidal silver is not an antibiotic but rather a mineral.
    Natural Antibiotics - Colloidal Silver - Ephraim Health Services Ltd
    Colloidal Silver: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions, Dosage, and Warning

    Perhaps there is a natural antibiotic out there, I just don't think it's in the group you've mentioned. I do not know of any trained avian holistic professionals to direct you to unfortunately. Prayers for your sick baby.
     
  12. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor BINGO CHAMPION

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    20,609
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    The symptoms you've described do not sound like old age to me.

    Some seeds are "dead". That is, they have nothing left in them. They won't sprout. Those foods fill the stomach but do not feed the body. It is possible that this happened.

    My Avian vet is also 1.5 hours away. I spent $100 on a bird on Craigslist and ended up with a bigger bill. It's just the way it happens. I had to put the bill on Care Credit I don't have that kind of money laying around!

    I too try to tackle things in life without resulting to pharmaceuticals when I can. I turn to essential oils and diet before medicine. However, while there is some evidence of ACV and colloidal silver having antibacterial properties, this isn't the same thing as a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Baytril. And if she has liver issues, it will not touch that.

    If you really can't bring her to a vet, this website carries bird antibiotics. I personally don't give antibiotics without knowing for sure that the situation calls for it, but my gut says this bird needs something stronger.

    Enrofloxyn: Bird Medications
     
    tka, Shezbug, Tiel Feathers and 3 others like this.
  13. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui Moving in

    Joined:
    9/19/18
    Messages:
    11
    Thankyou for sharing although I would disagree. Anything that inhibits the growth of or destroys micro-organisms is considered an antibiotic. Many people get this confused especially when natural antibiotics such as natural apple cider vinegar can be both an antibiotic and a probiotic at the same time. The difference is they are not man-made drugs that wipe out everything in their path and lead to bacterial imbalances and superbugs....this is probably why the link you gave says it is not an antibiotic...because they want to sell it and think this is a selling point saying that its not when its actually a selling point that it IS but not as most people would understand. Having said that I have heard that colloidal silver is stronger than ACV and can wipe out some of the good along with the bad so I tend to administer it for internal use as a last resort only.
     
  14. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor BINGO CHAMPION

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    20,609
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    The other thing you can do for her is give her the nutrients she needs to help her body fight off whatever she is dealing with. My Jardine's is getting Harrison's High Potency Mash, wetted with baby food made with orange veggies, with a bit of DMG and sugar and salt free almond butter mixed in. I mix his seeds in so he has to dig in and eat some of the mash to get to them.

    Bird diets: Harrison's High Potency Mash

    Avi-Immune (4 Ounce) Amazon.com : Avi-Immune (4 Ounce) : Pet Supplies


    You could also give this, one drop by mouth, instead of the powder

    VetriScience Laboratories - Vetri DMG Liquid, Immune Support for Cats and Dogs, 30 Servings Amazon.com : VetriScience Laboratories - Vetri DMG Liquid, Immune Support for Cats and Dogs, 30 Servings : Pet Antioxidant Nutritional Supplements : Pet Supplies

     
    Lady Jane, Shezbug and Tiel Feathers like this.
  15. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui Moving in

    Joined:
    9/19/18
    Messages:
    11
    Wow! They really should say this on the outside of the box....if the seeds don't sprout they have expired! Makes me mad that the supermarkets sell this stuff. 18mnths of being on it....Oh I just feel awful.....I had no idea. Always gave her good seed from produce store thinking it was the vegetable oil I has to avoid and then came across the Coles one...no vegetable oil and had all these pellets and things that seemed like she would be getting lots of adding benefits! Makes me really mad! I have been feeling really really awful for about two weeks that I have done something to kill her....and in a way I had but not intentionally...I trusted these birdseed mixes!

    I can't see where to buy the antibiotics on the website?? I didn't even know until tonight that you could buy it without a costly prescription from the vet! They certainly weren't about to volunteer that information! How expensive is a bottle and how quickly will I receive it? I think ti would be faster to get locally. Do petstores sell it? I'm assuming the vets won't just sell me some??
     
  16. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui Moving in

    Joined:
    9/19/18
    Messages:
    11
    I also have this sinking feeling it might be too late....how quickly can they turn around once on it and even once noisy breathing has kicked in? She also has a really pronounced keel now too. She moved down to the floor of the cage for the first time today so I am thinking this could be the beginning of the end....How long before they die do they usually do this?
     
  17. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor BINGO CHAMPION

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    20,609
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    They won't say it on the box, but cheap seed is cheap for a reason sometimes. I don't know for sure that this is what happened. Just saying sometimes it does. Regardless, even good seed mixes are devoid of vitamin A, D3, and usually low in calcium, all of which birds need.

    It's actually on this page where you buy it, sorry. They have a weird store setup.

    to ladygouldianfinch.com - Shop for Bird Medications

    I don't know about how close the end is. I've been fortunate to not have to go through what you are going through now.
     
  18. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor BINGO CHAMPION

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    20,609
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    I've bought other products from them and it's usually 3 to 5 days for first class and 2 to 3 for priority in the United States. I've never bought antibiotics without going to the vet. Pet stores won't carry it because they don't want people using them for the wrong reasons or wrong animals
     
    Sarahmoluccan and webchirp like this.
  19. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor BINGO CHAMPION

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    20,609
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
  20. Fia Baby

    Fia Baby Jogging around the block

    Joined:
    10/11/16
    Messages:
    607
    Location:
    Oregon
    Real Name:
    Beth
    I'm bookmarking that site!! And baytril is terribly bitter - unless this is already in a flavored syrup, you may need to add that, or your bird may not take it. I had a hard time with that with my cockatoo until I made a sweet syrup to put it in.
     
    Shezbug likes this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)