Training the Attention Deficit Bird

[finchly]

I need a suggestion - what I'm doing isn't working.

Please read what I write before you suggest what's already been tried.

I have done clicker training with dogs (for years) and birds, with no problem except my own tendency to not follow through. Anyway all my pets behave fairly well and do what I ask, they go to the cage, fly to me, perform a trick or two, etc.

Except Rio Caique.

Age: 15 months, DNA F.

Tried: voice commands, clicker training, let her choose favorite treat (obviously a walnut piece, see photo).



Problem: She's ADD. I am not kidding. She has NEVER been able (willing?) to focus. When I had the training table with just a single perch on it in the bird room where she lived, she'd completely ignore me. Oh I could stand her on the perch, but the clicker and even the treat couldn't get her attention for a second. Neither could my voice. She'd look everywhere but at the treat or my hand or me. So I couldn't do anything with her.

She's young, I said. She'll get over it, I said. I was wrong. She still can't or won't focus. Doesn't matter if I have a treat - she can't see it because she's zipping everywhere.

Now it's a big problem because she REFUSES TO GO BACK TO HER CAGE. If she even thinks you're headed in that direction she flies away, bites if you try to get her, runs to the side when you ask her to step up. I have a t-perch but as I say "good bird" she's already using it as a stepping stone to get somewhere else or launch into the air. Therefore she's gotten praise for running away.

She shrieks like we are killing her if we scoop her up. We don't put hands against her, we cup them open around her. She is now biting pretty hard. What I have started doing is telling her (three times, cause she's screaming) I'm putting a treat in her dish. I TRY to let her see me put it in. I gently put her into her hammock nearest the food dish, she finally releases my hand that she's been biting the whole time, and I talk softly and close the door. I also stand there and talk, trying to be sure we don't dump her and run off. Bleeding. And hurting.

She's like a child that you want to grab their face and turn it and say "LOOK at me!"

 

[SandraK]

Is there any chance she might be hearing impaired?

 

[finchly]

Is there any chance she might be hearing impaired?

Wow. I'll try to see. I never thought of that!

 

[finchly]

She’s not hearing impaired.

 

[Lady Jane]

Vision?

 

[Garet]

Hmn... have you tried setting up a ladder just to help with getting her back in her cage? I swear I've seen some that are bright rainbow colors that might catch her attention.

Another thing I do with one of my girls when she doesn't want to go home is use a stick to scratch at the back of her cage. It gets her territorial butt running every time because she thinks another bird's gone in there to mess with her things. I feel kind of mean for doing it, but sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do when you have a doctor's appointment, and it's way better than grabbing her, imho.

 

[BirdManDan]

I think that most birds appear to be ADD since they are all no older than a 3-5 years old child. Maybe it is ADHD since she is always going places. When to you do training? Give us a full rundown from the time you uncover her to the time she goes to bed?

​

 

[WendyN]

I have best luck training Joey when he is hungry. He is very food motivated.
But sometimes, even with his favorite treat he will not give me his attention. I leave him to play and try again in 10 minutes.

I am not a very good trainer....

 

[Fergus Mom]

I have heard my gal pal gripe about her daughter saying she can do her homework MUCH better if she is listening to music.
My girlfriend thought it was a crazy idea, but tried to allow her the music most of the time. The daughter said she could concentrate better with the music in the background, like white noise. Do you think maybe playing music, or white noise in the background might help somehow?

 

[Shezbug]

The only thing I can think of that may be of help is filming yourself while you interact with her then watch it. I have noticed I sometimes do things without thinking which affect my ability to train or connect properly. For example: I noticed I was turning my back on Burt to re-position myself and when I would do this he lost his interest in communicating with me, I only noticed while watching myself with him. My mum had taped it to show to my step mum, I could see as clear as anything what I was doing that caused him to loose interest and do something else to entertain himself. I would never have known what I was doing wrong if I had not seen the change in his interest myself in the video.
I have no idea if this will be of help but I thought it may be worth suggesting.

 

[JAM]

When you discover how to train an ADD bird let me know and I’ll finally work out how to train my little birds on crack....lorikeets lol.

 

[painesgrey]

I sometimes have the same problem with Cake. He will squeal like a stuck pig (and eventually bite if you don't heed his warning) if you try to get him to step up when he doesn't want to move.

In the end I've taken a long dowel and wrapped the ends in vet wrap. I have him step onto it frequently, even if I'm not trying to move him from point A to point B. He's not terribly flighty, so he will hold onto it as I gently swing him around, lift him from floor to ceiling, etc. It has made it far easier to use that to put him back in his cage, because he associates the dowel rod with "whee!" and not getting caged. I also found that if I stopped chasing him around trying to get him back into the cage, he stopped seeing it as a game, and would be more willing to submit. I know that time constraints and urgency can sometimes make this not practical, though.

Cake was far harder to deal with when he was younger, until he was about a 12-18 months old. He was far more headstrong, curious, and insistent on doing what he wanted to be doing. Even now I will see glimmers of those behaviors, but they're not nearly as frequent and frustrating. Time may be your best friend.

 

[BirdManDan]

If you give the full run down of her day from start to finish it might shed some light on what you are doing and how we might be able to shed some light on it.

 

[finchly]

Man do I love this forum.

I am not a very good trainer....

HAHA obviously me neither!

Do you think maybe playing music, or white noise in the background might help somehow?

This is interesting. I play music when she’s in her cage by my desk.... she stops everything and listens.

The only thing I can think of that may be of help is filming yourself while you interact with her then watch it.

Great idea! I quit showing horses when I saw a video of myself in the show ring.

When you discover how to train an ADD bird let me know and I’ll finally work out how to train my little birds on crack....lorikeets lol.

LOL

I sometimes have the same problem with Cake. He will squeal like a stuck pig (and eventually bite if you don't heed his warning) if you try to get him to step up when he doesn't want to move.

In the end I've taken a long dowel and wrapped the ends in vet wrap. I have him step onto it frequently, even if I'm not trying to move him from point A to point B. He's not terribly flighty, so he will hold onto it as I gently swing him around, lift him from floor to ceiling, etc. It has made it far easier to use that to put him back in his cage, because he associates the dowel rod with "whee!" and not getting caged. I also found that if I stopped chasing him around trying to get him back into the cage, he stopped seeing it as a game, and would be more willing to submit. I know that time constraints and urgency can sometimes make this not practical, though.

Cake was far harder to deal with when he was younger, until he was about a 12-18 months old. He was far more headstrong, curious, and insistent on doing what he wanted to be doing. Even now I will see glimmers of those behaviors, but they're not nearly as frequent and frustrating. Time may be your best friend.

I haven’t managed to get her onto my dowel (I even decorated it) but this sounds like it’s worth another try. I hope you’re right about time!

If you give the full run down of her day from start to finish it might shed some light on what you are doing and how we might be able to shed some light on it.

OK you asked for it......

Lately Capt Jack has been sleeping in Rio’s cage. The caiques are by the sliders (curtains stay open) so they awaken with the sun. As soon as they make noise I get them out and take them to the lanai where I have a play stand set up. We sit out there for an hour or two and they climb, eat, shower, etc. then Hubby watches them while I clean their cages, feed/water and put them back. Capt Jack into his own cage and Rio in hers. This is the only time of day I can get her back in. She might try to escape to the top of her cage and fly around but if I’m quick I can get her in before she fusses.

They are in cages 1-2 hours then go to the bird room play area and hang out. If I am training I try to work with her last so she can see the others doing it. I can no longer get Skittles or Torrie out to work with them because she chases them. About noonish, finish bird room chores, get Capt Jack, pretend to leave the room without Rio which makes her fly to me, and head to their cages. (Would like to ask for step up but she runs from me, this is my solution. Not good I know)

As soon as she sees where we’re going she flies in another direction. Usually to hubby. If he isn’t there she flies into the kitchen, over to Capt Jack’s cage, here there everywhere. Tried showing her a walnut but she fights to get it and eat it out of cage. So I grab her, she squeals, and I put her in her hammock and rub her tummy which she loves. She calms down and I shut the door. Stay in office working and they play quietly until anywhere from 4 to 6. THEY ARE SO QUIET ALL AFTERNOON.
I have a stand on my desk but she wants to eat the keyboard, she is EVIL with keyboards so the only choice is back to the cage. So Ernie and/or the tiels come sit with us while we work.

About 4 we take a break and put other birds up and get them out, this is when it’s very problematic to put her up. It’s also when I give fresh food but she doesn’t care... PIck her up with a loose open hand, she chomps down, I take and put her in. She eventually lets go. Immediately forgets about me and goes to eat.

They come out again and play briefly maybe. Sometimes she’s already in her sleep area by the time I get dinner organized. She spends an hour or more looking out the window and chirping but if she is in that back corner she doesn’t want to be disturbed.

If she’d stay on a play stand for more than 10 seconds she could be out more. If she didn’t fight going back she could come out more often even if it’s a short time. She will not step up, stop chewing something, fly to perch or most other commands but one thing she does well is “fly to me.”

 

[Fergus Mom]

About noonish, finish bird room chores, get Capt Jack, pretend to leave the room without Rio which makes her fly to me, and head to their cages. (Would like to ask for step up but she runs from me, this is my solution. Not good I know)

But seriously? Hey, whatever works!!! OMG.

 

[BirdManDan]

Man do I love this forum.

OK you asked for it......
Lately Capt Jack has been sleeping in Rio’s cage. The caiques are by the sliders (curtains stay open) so they awaken with the sun. As soon as they make noise I get them out and take them to the lanai where I have a play stand set up. We sit out there for an hour or two and they climb, eat, shower, etc. then Hubby watches them while I clean their cages, feed/water and put them back. Capt Jack into his own cage and Rio in hers. This is the only time of day I can get her back in. She might try to escape to the top of her cage and fly around but if I’m quick I can get her in before she fusses.

They are in cages 1-2 hours then go to the bird room play area and hang out. If I am training I try to work with her last so she can see the others doing it. I can no longer get Skittles or Torrie out to work with them because she chases them. About noonish, finish bird room chores, get Capt Jack, pretend to leave the room without Rio which makes her fly to me, and head to their cages. (Would like to ask for step up but she runs from me, this is my solution. Not good I know)

As soon as she sees where we’re going she flies in another direction. Usually to hubby. If he isn’t there she flies into the kitchen, over to Capt Jack’s cage, here there everywhere. Tried showing her a walnut but she fights to get it and eat it out of cage. So I grab her, she squeals, and I put her in her hammock and rub her tummy which she loves. She calms down and I shut the door. Stay in office working and they play quietly until anywhere from 4 to 6. THEY ARE SO QUIET ALL AFTERNOON.
I have a stand on my desk but she wants to eat the keyboard, she is EVIL with keyboards so the only choice is back to the cage. So Ernie and/or the tiels come sit with us while we work.

About 4 we take a break and put other birds up and get them out, this is when it’s very problematic to put her up. It’s also when I give fresh food but she doesn’t care... PIck her up with a loose open hand, she chomps down, I take and put her in. She eventually lets go. Immediately forgets about me and goes to eat.

They come out again and play briefly maybe. Sometimes she’s already in her sleep area by the time I get dinner organized. She spends an hour or more looking out the window and chirping but if she is in that back corner she doesn’t want to be disturbed.

If she’d stay on a play stand for more than 10 seconds she could be out more. If she didn’t fight going back she could come out more often even if it’s a short time. She will not step up, stop chewing something, fly to perch or most other commands but one thing she does well is “fly to me.”

Well like you said I asked for it. That's a very good rundown from start to finish.
Let me first tell you what I do and see if it works for you. If I am going to do any training I do it first thing in the morning when they have not had anything to eat yet so that they will be food motivated to train. My typical rundown is if no training is being done, is to do their chop in the morning after an hour I remove the chop bowls. Other than some foraging treats during the day they do not get more food till the evening when they get their pellets. I only leave the pellets in till just before evening perch time so no food in the cage all night so if I am going to train they will most definitely be food motivated.
First figure out what her favorite treat is. To do this put 6-8 different treats in a half circle like the numbers on a clock face at 9-10-11-12-1-2-3 with the bird in the middle and see which 2-3 treats the bird eats first. Use those 2-3 as your training treats. Then do the clicker training so they have a good understanding that when they hear the clicker they start to expect a treat. Then once that is done you can start to target train. From there everything else should follow fairly easily.

 

[finchly]

Wow! So they’re okay without food thru the day? I would have to change things around a little bit ... I feel so overwhelmed in the a.m. trying to take care of 2 dogs and 48 birds, that’s why I moved chop to afternoon.

I could train very first thing, 6-6:30 a.m. before anyone else is awake. And I’m glad you mentioned ‘loading’ the clicker by teaching them that click=treat, I bet I need to re-do that with Rio. It’s reall y funny though, whether dogs or birds. If I’m training a dog, the tiels are trying to get a treat. If I’m training birds there are 2 sad puppies at the bird room door (it’s a screen door). That’s one sound they don’t forget!

Of course today she made a liar out of me. She got on her outer perch, I showed her a walnut piece, she went after it into her cage and stayed nicely.

 

[rockybird]

My boy Zeek will not go into his cage willingly either. And who can blame him? He is easily bored and wants to be out where the action and his human is. Nonetheless, he HAS to go into the cage when I am at work. But as far as he is concerned, he will NOT go in, even if I ask nicely, carry him over, coax or trick him, etc. He will not go in his cage because he does not want to. He is not a human baby but an adult male caique who, if circumstances were different, would be living independently, flying the jungle, evading predators, raising babies, and making his own independent decisions in the wild. Who am I to order him to do something? He is a wild animal who wants to make his own choices. I truly cannot blame him.

Because of this, I have to wrap him in a tee shirt to get him into the cage. He will not go in otherwise. Generally, he loves being wrapped in the tee shirt because it comes with snuggles and one on one attention. Sometimes, he attacks the tee shirt which I carry one end of with him hanging on the other end, fighting it and quickly ascending to my fingers. I place him and the shirt in the cage gently. If it's an old shirt, I will leave it in the cage for him to surf and chew on. Most of the time, he will let my wrap him in the shirt, because he also associates it with good things - walks around the house, snuggles and grooming.

Anyway, I dont know if this helps, but if you can train her to accept being wrapped in a shirt (but dont let her overheat!), it gives you something to control her with. I use a shirt and not a towel because it's thinner and I think they wont overheat as much. Lastly, sometimes I let the birds make their own decisions so they dont feel that they have lost all autonomy. I will take them to the cage, but if they protest, I back off and let them have a little more out of cage time. I feel like I should be democratic and listen to their needs as well.

 

[rockybird]

Zeek with his shirts:

 

[finchly]

Zeek with his shirts:
View attachment 281001 View attachment 281002 View attachment 281003 View attachment 281004 View attachment 281005

Omg so cute! I understand what you’re saying, it makes a lot of sense. I’ll try the t-shirt method.

I did realize (again) that I move really fast and it might be detrimental. So I slowed way down when taking them to their cages.

Gave her a treat outside the cage, let her eat it, showed her I was putting one in the cage. She went in and got it like an angel.

I’m sure it won’t last!