Toe tapping is involuntary and can not be deliberately done because she is venting.
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toe tapping
- Thread starter jim
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http://forums.avianavenue.com/eclectus-alley/951-toe-tapping-wing-flipping.html
JLcribber
@cockatoojohn
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That's different kind of toe tapping than we are talking about Mercedez.
Squeeky developed toe tapping just before he died. He was obviously sick but there was nothing I could do about it. I took a video of it.
Kimba
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that's a lot of fortification Jim............You'd be better off getting those ingrediants separately at a health food store. (Although it would be a pain in the but.) Your fresh is balanced, and I wouldn't give up the dry. I would make my own dry and I would not worry about it being balanced so much,(I wouldn't worry about getting all the ingredients) Your fresh will more than compensate for anything you might miss in the dry mix. I don't like the fortification of the dry diets. My guess would lean towards you doing too good of a job. Seeds, nuts, granola, oats, flax seeds........dirt cheap in health food stores.
I used to make my own dry mix for my painted conure, she had a congenital beak and toe issue. Her beak and the one toe nail would grow to the point that it would have to be clipped once a week, it was nuts! I stopped pellets and made my own mix, through trial and error, I created a dry mix that cut the grow of her beak down from trimming once a week to once ever 6 months!
My point is that sometimes you need to create the a diet for your bird as they are all individuals. Sofie might be less tolerant of some things and not others, (aside from being an Ekkie) But I would start by cutting out the fortified stuff.
FIGS FIGS FIGS!!!!!!!! More fiber than nutrition, and packed with calcium. The seeds contain poly saturated fatty acids which are essential for nutrition. The seeds stimulate the movement of intestine and smooth the process of digestion.
I used to make my own dry mix for my painted conure, she had a congenital beak and toe issue. Her beak and the one toe nail would grow to the point that it would have to be clipped once a week, it was nuts! I stopped pellets and made my own mix, through trial and error, I created a dry mix that cut the grow of her beak down from trimming once a week to once ever 6 months!
My point is that sometimes you need to create the a diet for your bird as they are all individuals. Sofie might be less tolerant of some things and not others, (aside from being an Ekkie) But I would start by cutting out the fortified stuff.
FIGS FIGS FIGS!!!!!!!! More fiber than nutrition, and packed with calcium. The seeds contain poly saturated fatty acids which are essential for nutrition. The seeds stimulate the movement of intestine and smooth the process of digestion.
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People should not confuse toe tapping with a behavioral issue - toe tapping is a neurologic manifistation, much like a seizure, is totally involuntary and not a behavior brought on by itching/twitching of mites, tape worms, impatience, nesting or other kinds of discomfort or behaviors. As stated above, it is most often brought on by nutritional sensitivities or deficiancies. This is almost exclusive in this form to Eclectus, unfortunately for them.
jim
Sprinting down the street
well dag nabbit, I swore I read that stress could cause it as well. lol She isn't tapping tonight. It is so weird. If I did not know about toe tapping, what I saw her doing I would not have given a second thought to it. Like the video in the thread you linked to Marie? The lift of the toe looks stressed. It really looks uncomfortable. It looks like a twitch or a spasm. Sophie's didn't. None the less. No more short cuts.
I'm curious to know if anyone's ekkie every started toe-tapping without any change in the diet at all.
jim
Sprinting down the street
no toe tapping last night. Had a bad night sleep too!! lol I kept waking up and checking to see if there was a "tap tap tap" going on!
Yes Monica, some have started toe tapping with out a change. As vitamin toxicity can be accumulative.
This is one more of those things that, the more I read about it, the less there really seems to be known about which is why educated Easter egging is how we stop it.
Sad too, but so much information isn't available unless I actually BUY a book. lol sheesh.
Yes Monica, some have started toe tapping with out a change. As vitamin toxicity can be accumulative.
This is one more of those things that, the more I read about it, the less there really seems to be known about which is why educated Easter egging is how we stop it.
Sad too, but so much information isn't available unless I actually BUY a book. lol sheesh.
The tricky thing with the diet, Monica, is that it can be a very good diet. But for an ekkie if too much good stuff builds up it can develop into a sensitivity that could take months to show up. There doesn't need to be any changes going on.
I have a toe tapper. Every 2-4 weeks she taps for about 4 days. I thought we had it under control by adding calcium - but she has started again. As for her diet...a bean mash, fresh veggies and fruit with Volkmans Eclectus seed mix as a snack. I am at a loss. Perhaps she needs more lightening, so I am moving her cage to a sunnier location. Any thoughts?
sodakat
Rollerblading along the road
If it only lasts a few days, I honestly would not worry about it. Easier said than done, I know. You could have her tested for ABV because *sometimes* that results in tapping. Celebrex has helped ABV birds.
Cold can bring on bouts of tapping but usually once the bird warms up, it stops. Another theory, especially with females, is pressure from enlarged reproductive glands can cause tapping. Once the bird is no longer amped up hormonally, it stops. But I think this is usually young females who are just going into breeding age.
If there are no other symptoms besides tapping and if the bird is not trying to chew her feet during the episodes, I do not think it is harmful.
The last thing I would say is that you should pay real close attention that she is not getting some odd bit of food every month or so that could be affecting her. Someone giving her a bit of something that they eat infrequently themselves.
I did not know about cold affecting ekkies. Willy started toe tapping last Tuesday. Our furnace was out Monday night during a snow storm and the temperature in the room got down to 61 degrees. Once we got heaters going and the furnace going again, it took another day to get the temp up to 70 degrees. He has not toe tapped since. Good to know another possible reason. Whew!
petiteoiseau
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I am sure you know more about ekkies than me but not worry over a neurological abnormal manifestation?! I really do not know about that... What I do know is that I would worry and worry and worry incessantly until I found out what is wrong and fix it.
sodakat
Rollerblading along the road
Bibi, not even vets can necessarily "fix" toe-tapping in Eclectus parrots. So many different causes. Generally it resolves itself on its own. After owning them for so many years I've seen it manifest different ways. The examples I gave are valid.
If the owner is honest in reporting the diet and the bird does not eat colored pellets or any commercial bird food with lots of added nutrients like nutriberries for example, then the bird will probably stop tapping in a few days on its own. Sometimes it helps to feed only fresh fruits and vegetables without any other foods such as cooked grains and beans at all for a week or so. That doesn't do the trick every time however.
There are many theories about what exactly can cause toe-tapping but to the best of my knowledge, none have been proven. Even standing on a couch that has been sprayed with fabric protector can set off some Eclectus into a tapping session. I think that they happen to be a species that exhibits discomfort more apparently than most other species, not that they are necessarily more sensitive. Just my opinion of course.
If the owner is honest in reporting the diet and the bird does not eat colored pellets or any commercial bird food with lots of added nutrients like nutriberries for example, then the bird will probably stop tapping in a few days on its own. Sometimes it helps to feed only fresh fruits and vegetables without any other foods such as cooked grains and beans at all for a week or so. That doesn't do the trick every time however.
There are many theories about what exactly can cause toe-tapping but to the best of my knowledge, none have been proven. Even standing on a couch that has been sprayed with fabric protector can set off some Eclectus into a tapping session. I think that they happen to be a species that exhibits discomfort more apparently than most other species, not that they are necessarily more sensitive. Just my opinion of course.
Yes she does chew on her toes after the toe tapping and they seem to cramp. No other foods than what I mentioned have been given to her. But I do give her a few nuts as treats and I have probably been giving her too many sunflower seeds in the Eclectus mix. She threw up water once last night and once the night before. Not sure if it is related.
So...I have removed the sunflower seeds, cut the seed mix amount to half a tablespoon a day, upped her bean sprouts. I have also removed her tree branch perches and plan to clean her cage with only hot water (I was using poop-off)
Plan to have blood work done in the next few days.
So...I have removed the sunflower seeds, cut the seed mix amount to half a tablespoon a day, upped her bean sprouts. I have also removed her tree branch perches and plan to clean her cage with only hot water (I was using poop-off)
Plan to have blood work done in the next few days.
sodakat
Rollerblading along the road
I'm glad you are having blood work
I doubt sunflower seeds make her toe tap and I'm very glad you are having bloodwork done. Throwing up water worries me. Please have her tested for metal toxicity also. Be sure to let the vet know she is vomiting water.
petiteoiseau
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I understand what you are saying and know about the difficulty of pinpointing the problem that causes it and you are 100% right in avian vets not even treating it (which is not a criticism of avian vets as it's perfectly understandable) but, again, I would not call an abnormal involuntary muscle spasm 'exhibiting discomfort', it strikes me more like a medical problem...
Personally, I think it's all diet (I would not feed an ekkie any oil seeds or pellets) and/or environment related. I think that ekkies have a social structure and diet too specialized in the wild for them to be healthy in captivity -at least, not yet.
Penelope is back to her normal self. No more toe tapping or vomiting, she is playing and hanging upside down. I made her vet appointment a week and a half out because that should be about the time that she would start to tap again. There are so many conflicting articles on the net...but some of her symptoms worry me that it may be a fatty liver.
Since I've cut back on the bean mix, nuts and seeds perhaps she won't tap again....
Since I've cut back on the bean mix, nuts and seeds perhaps she won't tap again....
Went to vet - and was told she is healthy!!!! Her calcium and protein levels are a little low so I have been advised to start an Echinacea treatment for 6 weeks to boost her immunity and I'm so supposed to take her back after that for more blood work. I was told the diet was right on track and cutting back the seeds was a good idea and if that was behind the toe tapping it may take up to 2 months to clear her system. As for the vomiting...no - she was just feeding me, and I need to watch how I cuddle. 
I was also told to add a heated perch. She taps with her right foot and stands on her left. Her left foot also is the one that gets clinched. Her left heel is a little puffy.
I was also told to add a heated perch. She taps with her right foot and stands on her left. Her left foot also is the one that gets clinched. Her left heel is a little puffy.
sodakat
Rollerblading along the road
I am very happy she was pronounced healthy! Was this an avian vet that prescribed Echinacea? I've never ever heard of a vet suggesting that, but I don't get out much.
Not an avian vet, but an exotics specialist who has birds. She also consulted an Avian vet on line about Eclectus.
And Penelope is still doing great. No tapping - this is the longest we have gone without an episode.
And Penelope is still doing great. No tapping - this is the longest we have gone without an episode.
