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To clip or not to clip?

Hotpockets

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I am not a cockatoo expert by a long shot but I draw the line at face maimimg/potential blinding. If you think clipping him for now would give you time to figure out his triggers then I would do it. Otherwise, what will you do in the meantime? Walk around with a welders mask on? Caging Elvis more doesn't give you the opportunity to figure out the triggers either. They need to be out together for that, but safe at the same time.
 

sunnysmom

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Well, we made it through another day. LOL. I called Howie yesterday from work and asked if he wanted me to make the appointment to get Elvis's wings clipped. I decided since he was the one being bit that it was wrong for me to say 'no' if that's what he wanted. Howie said let's see how the weekend goes. I know Howie really doesn't want to see Elvis's wings clipped either. We were both so excited when Elvis finally molted out all of his wing feathers and could fly. (He had a pretty severe wing clip when he came to us.)

Howie didn't let Elvis out of his cage until I came home. But he sat in the living room with him and Elvis seemed content with that. When I got home I opened up his cage and gave him more clips, and the silly bird stayed in his cage for like another hour happily playing with his clips. Eventually, he did fly over to me. I tried to keep him with me but he wanted to see Howie. I told Howie that he needed to give Elvis his undivided attention. No playing with his phone, etc. Elvis happily sat with Howie for about 25 minutes. They played and Elvis got scratches. I micromanaged the whole thing. A couple times Elvis tugged on Howie's sleeve, but it was because Elvis wanted scratches and Howie just wasn't getting it. :rolleyes: And Elvis did grab Howie's finger once but didn't actually bite down. So I think he is testing Howie. But for the most part, Elvis did really well. Although whenever I had to leave the room, I did put Elvis back in is cage and he only came back out when I came back in. Hopefully, Howie gets to the point where he is comfortable dealing with Elvis without me again. So, we'll see how the weekend goes......
 

JLcribber

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I told Howie that he needed to give Elvis his undivided attention. No playing with his phone, etc.

That is the secret sauce for Howie. When Elvis is out Howie needs to stay focused and keep that third eye open all the time.

You can’t babysit a delinquent 3 year old by taking a nap. You’ve got to be on top of that little bugger constantly.

Elvis is a 3 year old delinquent. :)
 

sunnysmom

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That is the secret sauce for Howie. When Elvis is out Howie needs to stay focused and keep that third eye open all the time.

You can’t babysit a delinquent 3 year old by taking a nap. You’ve got to be on top of that little bugger constantly.

Elvis is a 3 year old delinquent. :)
Lol. You're exactly right. I will pass your words of wisdom on to Howie.

I really think more and more that this whole thing was a combination of hormones and Elvis wanting Howie's attention and it just escalated. Hopefully, we can get back to where we were. Or Howie and Elvis can. Elvis and I are fine.
 

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Lol. You're exactly right. I will pass your words of wisdom on to Howie.

I really think more and more that this whole thing was a combination of hormones and Elvis wanting Howie's attention and it just escalated. Hopefully, we can get back to where we were. Or Howie and Elvis can. Elvis and I are fine.

Until next season. :D
 

Lady Jane

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Is it possible to get Howie and Elvis on some kind of schedule for one on one time? Of course there would be times when other things need to be done. For instance from 6pm to 7pm its Howie and Elvis time.
 

JLcribber

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Is it possible to get Howie and Elvis on some kind of schedule for one on one time? Of course there would be times when other things need to be done. For instance from 6pm to 7pm its Howie and Elvis time.
That's what we do around here. We have consistent dedicated bird time twice a day. At the beginning and at the end. They get our undivided attention (mostly mine) during that time. The rest of the day they are expected to entertain themselves and they do. They "know" no one is going to interact with them during that time. This is normal and actually expected.

This is also why it's important for them (especially large parrots) to have an "environment" to spend that time in (with their unlocked cage). We can't constantly watch them but that is what is needed. The secure environment does the watching for us without locking them up.
 

sunnysmom

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Is it possible to get Howie and Elvis on some kind of schedule for one on one time? Of course there would be times when other things need to be done. For instance from 6pm to 7pm its Howie and Elvis time.
I think that's a good idea and I'll talk to Howie about it. Ideally, I would love to give Elvis a bird room. It's just not really an option at the moment. Up until now though, he had his cage door open whenever one of us was home. He really does still play in/on his cage a lot. But with the cage door open, he could come and see us when he wanted. Do a bit of flying, etc. After we blocked off the things he liked to chew, just having the cage door open worked well. Until the biting started. When I'm home alone, I still leave his cage open, and Elvis and I do just fine. I actually made Howie go to bed early last night so I could let Elvis hang out like normal before bed. I'm really hoping that we can get back to that with Howie in the mix. But maybe we can't. Or maybe if Elvis does have an hour a day of Howie's undivided attention he'll be content with that and continue to play independently the rest of the time. We'll see. I guess we just need to get the biting under control and go from there.
 

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The more and more Elvis becomes comfortable and familiar with his surroundings, the less and less time he's going to spend in that cage if the door is open. In time you will end up with an environment because you have to (for everyone's sanity). Mark my words. :D

Start planning. :)
 

sunnysmom

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The more and more Elvis becomes comfortable and familiar with his surroundings, the less and less time he's going to spend in that cage if the door is open. In time you will end up with an environment because you have to (for everyone's sanity). Mark my words. :D

Start planning. :)
LOL. I'm sure you're right. When I say cage door open, I am also in the vicinity. His cage is in the living room and then I move it into the dining room for bedtime. So, other than running to the basement to throw some laundry in etc., I'm in pretty close proximity to him. And if I leave the room, he usually flies after me anyway. But a bird proof room just for him is something to work towards. I definitely don't leave him unsupervised like little Sunny, who lived cage free during the day.
 

melissasparrots

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My goffin's was doing fly and land on my shoulder and bite the face almost a year after I got him. Right around March. I thought it might be hormones but he was also rehomed, so I expected some aggression at some point regardless. I can only tell you what I did. He's a graceful flyer so I didn't want to clip him. I had his cage in my bedroom at the time and most days he got out of cage time in the evening.

I started out just putting him immediately back in his cage after a bite attempt. That didn't really work, it didn't get worse, but didn't get better either. And I was giving him almost but not completely my full attention. Apparently holding him and reading a book or holding him and playing on the internet was not good enough for him. I ended up just resetting our relationship. I just left him in his cage for about a week. I'd walk up and talk to him and if I saw even the slightest bit of the evil squinty eye cockatoo I'm going to bite look, I'd just leave it to talking with him and leave him alone. If I saw round eyes, I might take him out for a few minutes of 100% attention on the bird play time and cuddles. As soon as he started acting wound up, I'd put him back in his cage with a treat. After a couple weeks it occurred to me that since his cage is in my bedroom and I only sleep in there, I can bird proof the room and let him out and just shut the door so he can't go after me. That way he gets out of cage time but any time I spend with him is 100% my attention on him. If I let him out for an hour and then went in to give him some attention and I saw squinty eyes, I just put him back in his cage. If I let him out for an hour and went in for attention and saw round eyes, then I'd give him some cuddles or attention. The very instant I see squinty eyes, he went back in his cage. I also didn't let him on my shoulder. If he flew to my shoulder, I'd shove him off immediately. He can fly so being tossed off of me was no big deal. If I had to toss him back to his cage more than a couple times, then he'd just have to go back in his cage. It lasted for about 3 months and then I started relaxing the rules and have rarely had a problem with him since.
In short, don't give him the opportunity to bite Howie. Howie should give him 100% his attention, time with Howie should be very structured. No fly up and get attention any time he wants. Set time for Howie and Howie only. Any other time, he's not allowed access to Howie. If Howie is around and bird starts screaming, jumping around acting excited, watch those eyes. You'll start to recognize the evil cockatoo squint. If you see it, he goes back in his cage. Possibly for the rest of the day or at least for plenty of time to pass and him to calm down and forget about trying to conquer the world. I think it should probably be Howie that reinforces this. Otherwise, the bird might learn that biting Howie gets you to come running. That might not be good.
 

sunnysmom

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My goffin's was doing fly and land on my shoulder and bite the face almost a year after I got him. Right around March. I thought it might be hormones but he was also rehomed, so I expected some aggression at some point regardless. I can only tell you what I did. He's a graceful flyer so I didn't want to clip him. I had his cage in my bedroom at the time and most days he got out of cage time in the evening.

I started out just putting him immediately back in his cage after a bite attempt. That didn't really work, it didn't get worse, but didn't get better either. And I was giving him almost but not completely my full attention. Apparently holding him and reading a book or holding him and playing on the internet was not good enough for him. I ended up just resetting our relationship. I just left him in his cage for about a week. I'd walk up and talk to him and if I saw even the slightest bit of the evil squinty eye cockatoo I'm going to bite look, I'd just leave it to talking with him and leave him alone. If I saw round eyes, I might take him out for a few minutes of 100% attention on the bird play time and cuddles. As soon as he started acting wound up, I'd put him back in his cage with a treat. After a couple weeks it occurred to me that since his cage is in my bedroom and I only sleep in there, I can bird proof the room and let him out and just shut the door so he can't go after me. That way he gets out of cage time but any time I spend with him is 100% my attention on him. If I let him out for an hour and then went in to give him some attention and I saw squinty eyes, I just put him back in his cage. If I let him out for an hour and went in for attention and saw round eyes, then I'd give him some cuddles or attention. The very instant I see squinty eyes, he went back in his cage. I also didn't let him on my shoulder. If he flew to my shoulder, I'd shove him off immediately. He can fly so being tossed off of me was no big deal. If I had to toss him back to his cage more than a couple times, then he'd just have to go back in his cage. It lasted for about 3 months and then I started relaxing the rules and have rarely had a problem with him since.
In short, don't give him the opportunity to bite Howie. Howie should give him 100% his attention, time with Howie should be very structured. No fly up and get attention any time he wants. Set time for Howie and Howie only. Any other time, he's not allowed access to Howie. If Howie is around and bird starts screaming, jumping around acting excited, watch those eyes. You'll start to recognize the evil cockatoo squint. If you see it, he goes back in his cage. Possibly for the rest of the day or at least for plenty of time to pass and him to calm down and forget about trying to conquer the world. I think it should probably be Howie that reinforces this. Otherwise, the bird might learn that biting Howie gets you to come running. That might not be good.
That's really interesting. Thank you. We started doing a watered down version of something similar to that the past couple days. It seems like we may need to make the back in the cage time longer though and time with Howie more structured. And very interesting point about Howie needing to reinforce. I never even though that by me being the one to intervene that I may be teaching him to be naughty to Howie to get to me. But I can see him figuring that out. They're so smart. I'm glad to know someone else has gone through this. I was beating myself up on somehow turning Elvis into a biter. But he's been with us for about 10 months now. So maybe he's testing things- plus maybe hormones on top of that. Thank you for you advice. How much time to do you think you spend with your goffin a day?
 

melissasparrots

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And very interesting point about Howie needing to reinforce. I never even though that by me being the one to intervene that I may be teaching him to be naughty to Howie to get to me. But I can see him figuring that out. They're so smart. I'm glad to know someone else has gone through this. I was beating myself up on somehow turning Elvis into a biter. But he's been with us for about 10 months now. So maybe he's testing things- plus maybe hormones on top of that. Thank you for you advice. How much time to do you think you spend with your goffin a day?
Aggression and screaming with rehomed cockatoos seems to just be the way it is. Especially if you have a male. I was surprised it took almost a year for it to show up with mine. Actually, it may have been closer to a year and a half. I can't remember if it was the first or second March after I got him. I know it was literally about 3 years before he started acting like this was really home even though the real behavior issues were short lived.
He may be picking on Howie if he sees him as the weak link or the more passive person. Same deal if he sees Howie as a rival if Howie is showing more manly dominant behaviors. Passive persistence is the way to go with cockatoos. With cockatoos especially, I've noticed that verbal acknowledgment of misbehavior tends to just further encourage the behavior. I don't even bother with saying NO anymore because it tends to just dare them to keep doing it. Especially if I say it with even the remotest bit of authority in my voice. If its not aggressive behavior the bird is showing, then I just distract with a toy. If its aggression or the bird has recently shown aggression and I want to get out of that behavior cycle, then I just put the bird back in the cage and if he went in peacefully, he gets a treat and might get to come back out in an hour or so. If he bit on the way back to the cage, then he won't be coming out for any length of time for the rest of the day. Depending on the level of aggression, I might take him out for about 1-5 minutes of basic step up training, trick training with treats. Basically very structured time with emphasis on positivity and treats for good behavior and no time to be bad. And I watch those eyes before even thinking of letting him out. Squinty eyes is probably a no. Squinty eyes especially with any tail flaring or even just a twitchy tail means no, he's absolutely not coming out until tomorrow at the earliest.

My goffin's is kind of an anti-cockatoo in some ways. He's not that much for cuddles. He gets between 30 minutes and a few hours out in the evening depending on the day. He often is not one for a lot of scritches. He might sit on my and shred a toy and fly back and forth from the cockatoo and macaw cage. I always ask before petting because he can bite if not in the mood and I try to give him unsolicited attention. I don't blame him for that. Its my fault if he bites to shove my finger away when I didn't ask first.
I'd say I might only spend about 10 minutes of one on one attention with my goffin's each day. Otherwise, its ambiant attention and just being out if he can handle it without getting into trouble. He's an odd bird. I would not say his attention wants and needs are similar to other cockatoos. He's definitely different from my female GSC2 who gets about 10-60 minutes of snuggles and play time depending on the day and who does not bite and almost always wants to play with me or be near me and almost never objects to being touched. I treat my goffin's much more similarly to the way I treat my male amazons. I never assume anything with him, and I always ask before any interaction, allow him to say no and I'm constantly assessing body language. My goffin's thankfully does not bite hard and has only drawn maybe a drop of blood once if that. But I want to keep it that way, so I take the biting seriously when it does happen. Especially since he's flighted and has access to my face. He's one of those birds that depending on the day, I'll let him preen my eye lashes and other days, Heck no he's not allowed around my face.
 

sunnysmom

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Aggression and screaming with rehomed cockatoos seems to just be the way it is. Especially if you have a male. I was surprised it took almost a year for it to show up with mine. Actually, it may have been closer to a year and a half. I can't remember if it was the first or second March after I got him. I know it was literally about 3 years before he started acting like this was really home even though the real behavior issues were short lived.
He may be picking on Howie if he sees him as the weak link or the more passive person. Same deal if he sees Howie as a rival if Howie is showing more manly dominant behaviors. Passive persistence is the way to go with cockatoos. With cockatoos especially, I've noticed that verbal acknowledgment of misbehavior tends to just further encourage the behavior. I don't even bother with saying NO anymore because it tends to just dare them to keep doing it. Especially if I say it with even the remotest bit of authority in my voice. If its not aggressive behavior the bird is showing, then I just distract with a toy. If its aggression or the bird has recently shown aggression and I want to get out of that behavior cycle, then I just put the bird back in the cage and if he went in peacefully, he gets a treat and might get to come back out in an hour or so. If he bit on the way back to the cage, then he won't be coming out for any length of time for the rest of the day. Depending on the level of aggression, I might take him out for about 1-5 minutes of basic step up training, trick training with treats. Basically very structured time with emphasis on positivity and treats for good behavior and no time to be bad. And I watch those eyes before even thinking of letting him out. Squinty eyes is probably a no. Squinty eyes especially with any tail flaring or even just a twitchy tail means no, he's absolutely not coming out until tomorrow at the earliest.

My goffin's is kind of an anti-cockatoo in some ways. He's not that much for cuddles. He gets between 30 minutes and a few hours out in the evening depending on the day. He often is not one for a lot of scritches. He might sit on my and shred a toy and fly back and forth from the cockatoo and macaw cage. I always ask before petting because he can bite if not in the mood and I try to give him unsolicited attention. I don't blame him for that. Its my fault if he bites to shove my finger away when I didn't ask first.
I'd say I might only spend about 10 minutes of one on one attention with my goffin's each day. Otherwise, its ambiant attention and just being out if he can handle it without getting into trouble. He's an odd bird. I would not say his attention wants and needs are similar to other cockatoos. He's definitely different from my female GSC2 who gets about 10-60 minutes of snuggles and play time depending on the day and who does not bite and almost always wants to play with me or be near me and almost never objects to being touched. I treat my goffin's much more similarly to the way I treat my male amazons. I never assume anything with him, and I always ask before any interaction, allow him to say no and I'm constantly assessing body language. My goffin's thankfully does not bite hard and has only drawn maybe a drop of blood once if that. But I want to keep it that way, so I take the biting seriously when it does happen. Especially since he's flighted and has access to my face. He's one of those birds that depending on the day, I'll let him preen my eye lashes and other days, Heck no he's not allowed around my face.
Does your goffin have his own cage? Is he interested in your other birds? Thank you for your help.
 

melissasparrots

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Does your goffin have his own cage? Is he interested in your other birds? Thank you for your help.
He does have his own cage. I think its about 23X30" deep and wide. He is interested in other birds but I wouldn't house him with one. My only other cockatoo is definitely not interested in him. He has also shown some interest in one of my female yellow napes, but yellow napes can be plenty feisty and I won't risk his safety. Although, he is pretty good about knowing when to get out of the way and the fact that he's flighted means he's able to do so at will when uncaged. He's not trustworthy with little birds. He will try to open their cage doors, steal their food and then get aggressive when they protest. He plucks a little bit and its been my observation that sometimes pluckers transfer their plucking to their mate and may or may not continue plucking themselves. He actually plucks less when I keep him in the bird room rather than in my living room. Usually its the reverse, but whatever keeps him happy...
 

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He does have his own cage. I think its about 23X30" deep and wide. He is interested in other birds but I wouldn't house him with one. My only other cockatoo is definitely not interested in him. He has also shown some interest in one of my female yellow napes, but yellow napes can be plenty feisty and I won't risk his safety. Although, he is pretty good about knowing when to get out of the way and the fact that he's flighted means he's able to do so at will when uncaged. He's not trustworthy with little birds. He will try to open their cage doors, steal their food and then get aggressive when they protest. He plucks a little bit and its been my observation that sometimes pluckers transfer their plucking to their mate and may or may not continue plucking themselves. He actually plucks less when I keep him in the bird room rather than in my living room. Usually its the reverse, but whatever keeps him happy...
Thanks. I am still trying to figure out what makes Elvis happy. I thought we were doing well but have definitely taken some steps back this past month.
 

melissasparrots

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Thanks. I am still trying to figure out what makes Elvis happy. I thought we were doing well but have definitely taken some steps back this past month.
Well, just keep at it. That is cockatoo ownership for you. If you can make it through the first couple years or so, you get it figured out and its mostly smooth sailing after that. Just be observant. Both of my cockatoos pluck but they are generally in nearly perfect feather only because I stuck it out and trial and errored long enough that I started to accumulate a list of small things that when combined lead to a most happy, healthy and well feathered cockatoo. Sometimes its one step forward today, three steps backward tomorrow and you might have to hold out for another three weeks until something clicks and you can take a step forward again. Most things work their way out in the end.
 

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Well, just keep at it. That is cockatoo ownership for you. If you can make it through the first couple years or so, you get it figured out and its mostly smooth sailing after that. Just be observant. Both of my cockatoos pluck but they are generally in nearly perfect feather only because I stuck it out and trial and errored long enough that I started to accumulate a list of small things that when combined lead to a most happy, healthy and well feathered cockatoo. Sometimes its one step forward today, three steps backward tomorrow and you might have to hold out for another three weeks until something clicks and you can take a step forward again. Most things work their way out in the end.
Thanks. I hope things work their way out with Elvis- and I hope Howie has the patience to hang in there. He's getting really frustrated by it all.
 
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