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To breed or not to breed...that is the question.

jahpan

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Sooo I haven't been on here in forever sorry for my absence!! I just had this idea to post on here but not really sure if people know alot about dog breeding? I have tried to post on facebook groups about it before but people get really sensitive about dog breeding in general and have deleted me from the group simply just asking about dog breeding. ^^"

Anyways, last october my husband and I bought a shiba inu, she is a gorgeous black and tan adorable and loving dog! She is now around 11 months old? I never really thought about breeding her until I got alot of compliments about her from friends and family. Even my dad is like wow that dog is so beautiful really has a nice posture/AKC look about her!

I was just wondering is it worth breeding her? We have been waiting to spay her because we are unsure if we want to breed her or not and it would only be 1-2 times because breeding could be a fun hobby but we would still like to keep her as our loving family pet and not exactly have a farm of animals. ^^"

I do know it takes alot of work to breed and along with taking care of the puppies, cleaning the area, taking them to the vet for their shots. This breed is really rare and the color is rare too so I just felt like I would be helping the population of them too! I just don't know if I should spay her or not. My vet said there is alot of complications with trying to spay her at a later age and also complications if she does decide to be bred, which there is always risks, etc. But I've been always been curious what it would be like to breed her. Or even how studs work, etc. My husband and I do not have kids and are waiting a few years for that. We also work full time 8 hr shifts a day so not sure how that would work, or get a trusted sitter to help with the pups, etc. Is it really worth it or a ton more work than I am letting on?

Anyways here is her instagram page for videos and photos of her:
Chiyo (@chiyoshiba) • Instagram photos and videos

thank you for any responses!
 

tka

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A ton more work than you are letting on. Breeding is not a fun hobby if you're doing it properly. It's stressful and time-consuming and expensive. You should be seeking reasons NOT to breed.

You cannot leave puppies alone for eight hours a day. You or your husband will have to take time off work or pay someone to be around all day every working day until they're old enough to go to their new homes. Puppies are messy. Ever toilet trained one puppy? Great, now multiply that by a whole litter. Once they are mobile they will get into EVERYTHING. I hope your home is puppy-proof and you're not attached to your posessions. Puppies are expensive - you will definitely lose money breeding rather than making money or even breaking even. Things can go terribly wrong and you can lose a puppy, the whole litter, or your beloved b*tch. Your b*tch may have problems whelping which could mean an emergency caesarean at 4am. You may end up having to feed and toilet the puppies yourself if she needs an emergency c section or suffers from eclampsia.

Are your b*tch's genes worth passing on? Is she AKC registered? Not just looks it - actually is. Is she a good example of the breed? Do you know what the breed standard is? Where did you get her from? What's her temperament like? Is she free of hereditary issues? What about her siblings? What about her parents? What about her grandparents? If you don't know these things, you aren't in any position to breed. Shibu inu can suffer from joint problems - have you had her hip scored to test for hip dysplasia? If you don't know what this is or what the test involves, you are definitely not ready to breed. Shibu inu are also known for their independent temperaments and breeders think incredibly carefully about how to preserve that without it tipping into being too needy, too fearful or too hostile.

Is there actual demand for puppies? Not just people saying that they think she's pretty. Lots of people think dogs are cute and say "oh, I'd love a puppy!" without actually wanting an actual puppy. Do you know how to vet homes to make sure the puppies are going to good homes? Shibu inu are popular on social media - it's important to make sure that any potential owner is getting a puppy for the right reasons and not because they look cool or they've seen some cute memes.

Crucially, and this is the most important issue, can you justify bringing more puppies into the world when there are healthy, gentle, smart dogs languishing in shelters? Not all rescue dogs are mixed breed: there are dedicated breed rescues. Here's one: Midwest Shiba Inu Rescue

I've had seven female dogs in my lifetime. Two of them were actually going to become breeding b*tches in studs run by very, very good breeders - superb temperaments, from a line of Kennel Club champions, stunningly beautiful, with both their health and their lineage's health closely monitored and screened. The two breeders still decided to sell them to pet homes because they couldn't justify breeding from these particular b*tches. They were just a little short of perfection so they became very happy pets.

Every breeder we've worked with has had a vision of what they want from their breeding programme. They want to improve the breed by breeding carefully chosen examples from that breed: they select both dog and b*tch to complement each other, to try to breed out any problems, to try to breed for health and temperament, to try to create a generation that improves on previous generations. They don't just think "well, this one is pretty, she should have babies". Instead, they think of all of the reasons not to breed from a particular animal, and if any of these reasons are good ones then they don't breed.

In other words, no, you shouldn't breed. Let your pup be a happy pet without the stress of breeding. You obviously love her very much, she's a real part of your family and she's having a great time getting cuddles and sleeping on a variety of comfortable beds. Every so often you can just marvel at having such a wonderful, beautiful creature in your home. I did that this morning having cuddles with my parents' two spaniels.

If you are absolutely determined to in light of what I've said, then contact a reputable shibu inu breeder and ask them what they think. If they leap for joy and say that your b*tch has exactly the genes, temperament and conformation they seek in a breeding programme, then you can ask about mentorship.
 
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tka

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Mods, sorry to get around the swear filter but I thought it better to use the technical term for a female dog rather than "pretty lady"! It's very sweet though.
 

Greylady1966

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I think the people you are saying are "sensitive" to the topic are being realistic about breeding dogs. Post a picture of a litter of cute puppies and you have people lined up wanting one, AKC or not. IMO a lot of people impluse buy animals not thinking long term about the commitment they are making. My daughter volunteers at a shelter and we are fostering a pregant mixed breed dog the owners no longer wanted. She is beautiful, and when/if we take her back after the puppies are born the puppies will be adopted within a few days. She won't be that lucky.
 

Fia Baby

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Complex questions. Is she your first Shiba? You really should be thoroughly knowledgeable about your breed before you consider this. Is she your first dog? Thoughtfully mating 2 dogs, conscientiously taking care of the pregnant female, and raising a litter of pups well is actually a big task. You don't sound ready to take this on, at least not on your own. Do you understand the health issues of your breed? Are you able to select a well-matched male, travel to him, pay for the breeding, etc.? You have to study and thoroughly understand pedigrees to do this intelligently. Do you know what a COI is? If this breed is rare, you really have to be able to determine the degree to which the 2 potential studs are related - that's where the COI comes in. You really need to work closely with a knowledgeable and ETHHICAL breeder before you even consider doing this. I do think that conservation of rare breeds is important, but it really belongs in the hands of people who are dedicating themselves to it on every level. Is your breeder a resource for you? That's where you should start. As for spaying, there are really many reasons to NOT spay, and early spaying in particular is very detrimental to dogs. Intact females are at risk for mammary cancer and pyometra, but there are many other risks associated with early spaying, and spaying in general (various cancers, unrinary incontinence, musculo-skeletal problems, etc.,) You can keep your girl intact without breeding her (just guard her carefully when she's on heat), wait until she's 4-6 years to spay to reduce the chance of pyometra as she ages, or have your vet give her an hysterectomy (removal of her uterus only, which will eliminate the chance of pyometra but not the chance of mammary cancer. She'll still have heat cycles, will still be attractive to males, but will not be able to become pregnant).
 

fashionfobie

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I agree with the above posts. Reasons NOT to BREED are abundant.


If you are serious about your breed and you are serious about breeding. Do NOT Breed the dog you have. Instead find a Shiba Inu breeder contact them and express your interest in doing more with the breed. You need a mentor. Find a club near you, go to the meetings, talk with other breeders. Many serious breeders have been doing it for decades. They will know how to help you, which disease to look for which couplings are more stable. You need to be a person of action to take this on. Being a breeder is not about your dog, it is about the breed --health, temperament, well-being.

National Shiba Club of America
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jahpan

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@tka ahh thank you so much this is very helpful!
 

hrafn

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Do you have the money to do a complete health test before breeding? And I don't mean a checkup, I mean all health tests required by the AKC. Is she a perfect representation of her breed, from behaviour to conformation? Is your dog from strong champion lines, with health-tested parents and a well-documented lineage?

If not, do not breed her. End of story.

Shiba inu are not rare, and if you're not actively improving the breed, you have no reason whatsoever to add to the pool. Spay her.
 

Monica

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Yes, she is indeed gorgeous! And I agree with the others! (don't breed her just because you can, breed for the standard and betterment of that breed, *IF* she's AKC registered/fits all the requirements for the breed, tests completely healthy, etc)



As far as the spay/neuter thing goes... I would recommend doing more research into both for and against neutering. There's a lot of newer research coming out now about the effects of 'desexing' dogs. All of my previous dogs were fixed, although my current dog is intact. He's finally at a healthy weight where the vets would feel comfortable neutering him, but I'm honestly not inclined to get him fixed. I'm not interested in breeding him (he's not pure-bred anyway! doesn't fit into any breed standard - history unknown other than me being at least his 5th owner, he's around 4 years old, oh and he was a stray), I just don't see a major reason to since working at K9 kennels where all the dogs were left intact. (K9 as in, police, military, etc) Only one dog ended up getting fixed, but only because one "ball" dropped. The other remained inside him.

From my own research, getting a dog neutered at a young age is akin to clipping a bird at a young age. It can have psychological impacts that have the potential to alter the animal emotionally, if not physically as well. These issues may even remain into adult-hood. Therefore, if it's going to be done, it's best to wait until the animal is mature, in all sense of the word.
 

finchly

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Are your b*tch's genes worth passing on? Is she AKC registered? Not just looks it - actually is. Is she a good example of the breed? Do you know what the breed standard is? Where did you get her from? What's her temperament like? Is she free of hereditary issues? What about her siblings? What about her parents? What about her grandparents? If you don't know these things, you aren't in any position to breed. Shibu inu can suffer from joint problems - have you had her hip scored to test for hip dysplasia? If you don't know what this is or what the test involves, you are definitely not ready to breed. Shibu inu are also known for their independent temperaments and breeders think incredibly carefully about how to preserve that without it tipping into being too needy, too fearful or too hostile.
These are pretty much the questions I would ask myself. My dog's breeder goes one step further with the testing - she does a deeper (more expensive) test on eyes, for example. So she knows her guys don't carry the gene for whatever it is.

I have bred dogs before, here are the two things I ask myself:
Does it better the breed?
Is there a demand?

If there are a bunch in rescue, I wouldn't do it. Doubt this is the case with Shibas though! That's why I have several species of birds but don't breed them all. I have cockatiels, but would never breed 'em because the rescues are full of cockatiels. Good luck with your decision. :)
 

fashionfobie

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In response the to neutering question:

My female dog developed some incontinence issues after she was neutered. She did go through her first heat cycle before her procedure. She peed in her sleep sometimes. I do not think she had any intention, and she would look very guilty and push her blanket away :( Poor thing. I later read that this is a common issue with female dogs when they are "fixed". She did live a healthy and happy life other than her little night time accidents.

It is interesting that removing part of a dog is considered fixing them. Though I do understand the logic of neutering. There are lots and lots of irresponsible dog owners who would't practice doggy birth control, and many unwanted puppies could be a consequence. --Doggy birth control should be fairly easy with a female dog, just avoid other dogs during her heat.
 
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