Pictures The T stick.

[BirdManDan]

Yes that is using it as a tool not for protection.

 

[Just-passn-thru]

Yes that is using it as a tool not for protection.

What's the difference, @Clueless statement was the T perch is golden to transport Secret without getting bitten and others as well. Your opinions seem literally textbook knowledge. Whats good for the goose is
(Isn't always) good for the gander...
If something is good, acceptable, or beneficial for one person, it is or should be equally so for another person or persons as well. Textbook theory is mearly a guide.
Your approach is a one size fits all, idealistic in theory, when applied in a practical scenario it's not always possible.

 

[Hankmacaw]

My Hank, the bird on the left, was physically, abused for the ten years before I got him. Macaws have no "give up" or "back down". Especially a full grown male GW. I had volunteered for 18 months at a sanctuary when I got him - the sanctuary only accepted the worst of the worst - and as a total new bird owner, I thought I was ready. Well, I wasn't ready for Hank.

I had no T stick and just did the best I could. After five years, many, many vicious bites, 1/4 inch of the ends of two fingers gone and feeling at times that I would have to give him up because I had to work to live and I was injured all of the time, we came to an understanding and he was my best buddy until he died 15 years later. To his last day I had to be very aware of him, because if he would lose it he would not bite, but try to remove an appendage from me.

Boy, how I wish I wasn't too stupid to think of a T stick 20 years ago. I'm sure things would have gone much easier for both of us. As an after thought, there was not the option of not handling him because he had Aspergillosis for his first four years with me and had to be handled constantly to be medicated.

 

[BirdManDan]

It seems like everyone is missing the point. Don't handle an aggressive bird until you have trust with them, then a T-bar wouldn't be necessary. I would only use a T-bar at a tool for a mode of transportation with a bird you have trust with or getting it from a high location, back to a perch or cage things like that. Never as a means to prevent being bitten if that's the case you shouldn't be working with the bird out of it's cage yet. My whole point is if that's the case wait to work openly with the birds once trust has been made. In the case of Hank for medication maybe an exception but even so any bird can be trained to take medication. It shouldn't take 5 years to create a bond of trust. Should only be a couple of days or in severe cases a couple of weeks. I'm speaking from real practical experience not text book theories. Real life happenings.

 

[Just-passn-thru]

Please share your know-how.
What you're trying to convey is rather ambiguous
An example would be helpful in giving us insight .

 

[Shinobi]

Shinobi,

You are correct that the beak is like a third hand and is often used for stabilization. I do however advocate that the beak should not be used for helping the bird with any bodypart contact unless it is necessary. In other words I teach my birds that it is okay to use their beaks on other things but not my body. If they use their beaks for stepping up on my hand I don't reward that behavior with a treat but do if they don't use their beak to step up on my hand. I will however reward them if they use their beak to step up to a perch. This will help prevent any accidental biting.

The bird isn't biting, it's using it beak as a third hand because it is unsure of the stablitiy of the human's hand. Once the bird TRUSTS the hand it will stop using it beak as a third hand.

This is basic training 101.

 

[JLcribber]

This is not about trust. You still didn't answer the question I asked you. How would you handle a bird a that is head over heels in love with your spouse and has blood in his eyes if you even enter the room or look at her? According to you this bird will need to spend the next 18 months inside a cage while you try to win him over which isn't going to happen because he only sees you as competition. The spouse does not handle the bird (because it just feeds the problem). Only you do.

Still waiting for an answer.

It seems like everyone is missing the point. Don't handle an aggressive bird until you have trust with them, then a T-bar wouldn't be necessary

No. You’re missing the point Dan. You’ve never dealt with a hormonal male cockatoo who hates your guts because it has formed an unnatural mate relationship with another human (because is psychologically damaged from being hand fed and human imprinted).

The bird has no problem with trust. It does not like you and wants you gone. That “trusting” bird will take every opportunity to drive you away.

Yes that can be turned around with (a long) time. Many years because I’ve done it. We just can’t afford that much blood loss getting there.

 

[Shinobi]

I had an female Eclectus parrot who was neglected, but not physically abused. It took me just over a month to stop her biting me.

The parrots which are abused both physically and mentally aren't birds that are fixed in a couple of days or weeks. It can take months or years.

You seem to claim that a T-stick is a weapon, not a tool. I would say that a weapon is an item that causes injuries, whereas a tool is an item that is used to undo and/or rebuild things.

I think the risk of being bitten while trying to build trust with a parrot which has been physically and mentally abused is worth it.

However if I have a tool that will allow me handle that bird safely, while introducing it to the world outside it's cage would be beneficial to the bird and human. Of course I would still do a risk assessment prior to opening the cage door.

 

[BirdManDan]

If you go back and look at my response you would see that yes in fact I did answer your question. You just can't seem to understand it. See my previous bolded response.

Hey to each his own way of doing things. My way has been working wonderfully for me for dozens of birds rehabilitated and tamed for handling so that they can be rehomed into loving families with birds they or anyone that visits them can handle. Setting both me the birds and the new families up for success. You can't force trust it has to be earned gently and kindly. Wouldn't everyone rather have a pet that anyone can handle versus just one person? I certainly do. If I have offended anyone I apologize.

If using a t-bar works for you then by all means keep doing it. I just wouldn't that's all I'm saying. We all have our own opinions and I was just expressing mine.

Never once did I say anything about 18 months so don't put words in my mouth. I personally don't think you should handle a bird until you have established trust so the it is a positive experience for both you and the bird. I just haven't forced a bird to trust me and haven't used a t-bar to keep from being bitten but rather earned trust first then worked with the birds outside of the cage afterwards. Typically just a few days. If done properly trust can be earned in a very short period of time even in as little as a day or two. I have no problem with using tools but the way it came across initially was to keep a bird from attacking you using the T-bar. That's not a tool that's a defensive weapon. Two of my macaws were lungers and biters and after clicker & touch/target training with positive reinforcement one was great after 2 days of proper trust building methods and the other took 4 days, both stepping up without biting. Who ever is having the issue (aggressiveness from the bird) needs to use clicker & target/touch training from the cage and make it a positive experience for the bird. Even getting a reward for reaching towards the target stick. Until the bird is comfortable with that person the reward or treat can be dropped into the treat/food bowl until it can be handed to the bird without aggression. I would not put the bird in the situation where you need to keep it away with a T-bar. You need to set yourself and the bird up for success not failure. I think using a T-bar for protection is setting you and the bird up for failure. If the bird loves one human and not the spouse the one that is loved needs to put the bird back in the cage before any interaction/training (mentioned above) is done with the spouse that is hated. You (the disliked spouse) don't need to handle the bird in the open if it is aggressive towards you until the trust is built first. You can't force a bird to love the spouse it has to be earned.[/QUOTE]

 

[Just-passn-thru]

. My way has been working wonderfully for me for dozens of birds rehabilitated and tamed for handling so that they can be rehomed into loving families with birds they or anyone that visits them can handle

I would love to have an example of your success. Please share your secrets otherwise what's the purpose of this post?

 

[JLcribber]

I'm sure you're very capable at rehabilitating birds Dan. You like I am not scared of any parrot, vicious or not. We handle them with confidence/positive energy and without fear. You are not the average bird owner who has suddenly been attacked by their large parrot that has turned on them and who has now become fearful of their bird. If they don't have a safe method (T stick) of moving and handling that bird (confidence and control) they will stop handling it (it still needs handling every day). Basically relegating it to its cage. All movement forward stops.

I'm done.

 

[finchly]

I don’t think that anyone meant for a stick to be used against a bird (like a weapon). They just step onto it. We can use my Paco as an example, 4 owners in under 2 years and I can see so many ways the bites were reinforced. When John mentioned the T-stick in his writeup, this time the light bulb went on for me. I had one for Ernie, can’t find it so I have picked up a small ladder from another cage and, in order to move Paco, I ask him to step on it. My other choices are (1) let him remain out when it is not convenient and of course not safe to leave him unsupervised or (2) endure yet another bite - he bites so hard I have scars and nerve damage. Honestly I need my hands for work.

This isn’t about not knowing how to handle him, it is about the damage others have created along the way. Today he got a new cage in a new location and was carried on the little ladder to the new room. He went in the cage and I got to keep all my fingers.

With both him and my rescue Ernie, I can’t imagine training them in a few days. Trust building and undoing emotional damage can take years. It’s been so long since I used that T perch I don’t even know where it it, but there was a time when ERnie was this way too.

If there are suggestions for enhancing or speeding the process, I’m all ears.

 

[Lodah]

Fids are very clever and perceptive and Pilo knows exactly why a T perch is used! It is used primarily for training in my eyes and I used one for Pilo for a while when he was in his biting moods... which seems like ages ago! Its a great training tool and while Pilo hasn't exactly tried to remove limbs, his bites where no picnic either! We have a wonderful bond together and the t perch is packed away as there is no need for it anymore... On a separate note... when Pilo is hormonal or in a bad mood, I only have to show him where the T Perch is by opening the draw and he is his old self almost immediately! funny about that, almost as if he perceives that he might lose out on some hand contact or scritches! Just an opinion!

 

[Shinobi]

Never once did I say anything about 18 months so don't put words in my mouth. I personally don't think you should handle a bird until you have established trust so the it is a positive experience for both you and the bird. I just haven't forced a bird to trust me and haven't used a t-bar to keep from being bitten but rather earned trust first then worked with the birds outside of the cage afterwards. Typically just a few days. If done properly trust can be earned in a very short period of time even in as little as a day or two. I have no problem with using tools but the way it came across initially was to keep a bird from attacking you using the T-bar. That's not a tool that's a defensive weapon. Two of my macaws were lungers and biters and after clicker & touch/target training with positive reinforcement one was great after 2 days of proper trust building methods and the other took 4 days, both stepping up without biting. Who ever is having the issue (aggressiveness from the bird) needs to use clicker & target/touch training from the cage and make it a positive experience for the bird. Even getting a reward for reaching towards the target stick. Until the bird is comfortable with that person the reward or treat can be dropped into the treat/food bowl until it can be handed to the bird without aggression. I would not put the bird in the situation where you need to keep it away with a T-bar. You need to set yourself and the bird up for success not failure. I think using a T-bar for protection is setting you and the bird up for failure. If the bird loves one human and not the spouse the one that is loved needs to put the bird back in the cage before any interaction/training (mentioned above) is done with the spouse that is hated. You (the disliked spouse) don't need to handle the bird in the open if it is aggressive towards you until the trust is built first. You can't force a bird to love the spouse it has to be earned.

Finchly
BirdManDan made the claim that John was using the T-stick has a defensive weapon. In john's situation, It's about handling a bird that's hates you and will bite if given the opportunity.

I'm sure you're very capable at rehabilitating birds Dan. You like I am not scared of any parrot, vicious or not. We handle them with confidence/positive energy and without fear. You are not the average bird owner who has suddenly been attacked by their large parrot that has turned on them and who has now become fearful of their bird. If they don't have a safe method (T stick) of moving and handling that bird (confidence and control) they will stop handling it (it still needs handling every day). Basically relegating it to its cage. All movement forward stops.

I'm done.

John is correct in that if you do not handle the bird, then there is no progress. But to handle a bird that hates because it see you as competition is unique and to prevent being bitten, Something was needed to be placed between the bird and john and this was a T-stick.

 

[Shinobi]

This link shows a zoo keeper with a macaw.
I do believe that she is using a T-stick.

 

[Sylvester]

Thanks for the tip. My bare eye really responds well to it.

I wouldn't have a dangerous bird. If Fred becomes that way he will quickly lose his home. Sorry, but if I wanted an animal that I had to watch out for I would have gotten a tiger.

 

[Sylvester]

Shinobi,

You are correct that the beak is like a third hand and is often used for stabilization. I do however advocate that the beak should not be used for helping the bird with any bodypart contact unless it is necessary. In other words I teach my birds that it is okay to use their beaks on other things but not my body. If they use their beaks for stepping up on my hand I don't reward that behavior with a treat but do if they don't use their beak to step up on my hand. I will however reward them if they use their beak to step up to a perch. This will help prevent any accidental biting.

You are like a 'bird whisper'.

 

[Brittany0208]

What about for a one-legged bird? Java is molting, and though he isn't aggressive, he hasn't gone into breeding season yet, so I'm not sure what to expect when he's flighted and hormonal. Also, clipping his wings is not an option.

 

[JLcribber]

What about for a one-legged bird? Java is molting, and though he isn't aggressive, he hasn't gone into breeding season yet, so I'm not sure what to expect when he's flighted and hormonal. Also, clipping his wings is not an option.

You don't cross that bridge until you get there.

I don't understand. What does one leg have to do with things?

 

[Brittany0208]

Getting him to step onto any makeshift perch, be it an arm, T-stand, or whatever