TBD Cause of 11 Bird Deaths

[Donna turner]

I didn't mean to imply that pesticides can't kill birds. I have witnessed that myself unfortunately. I just meant that if a pesticide was on the outside of the bag, had been on there long enough to dry, and wasn't giving off tell tell odors, it's very unlikely it would affect birds in other rooms by traveling through the air at that point. Of course if the bird rubbed or licked on the bag that is a different story

 

[Bokkapooh]

"All natural" sources can be something to be argued about. Everything is "natural".

Artificial doesn't necessarily mean bad.

 

[Mizzely]

"All natural" sources can be something to be argued about. Everything is "natural".

Artificial doesn't necessarily mean bad.

I agree with you to a degree, however your argument was that Zupreem uses Natural colors which is incorrect. They use artificial colors. And I think it's more appropriate to say everything is a chemical. Not everything is natural

inTune uses vegetables to color

Ground Corn, Brown Rice, Soybean Meal, Ground Wheat, Oat Meal, Sugar, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Alfalfa Nutrient Concentrate, Salt, Cranberries, Apples, Blueberries, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Spinach, Watercress, Brewer’s Dried Yeast, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Algae Meal, Mixed Tocopherols (preservative), Rosemary Extract, Potassium Chloride, Yeast Extract, Iron Oxide, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Turmeric, Annatto Extract, Beet Juice, Natural Banana Flavor, Natural Pineapple Flavor, Natural Citrus Flavor, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product.

 

[Milo]

There is a good chance after the fruit blend is sold, or donated whichever comes first I will carry Higgins Intune and just stick with the Naturals.

So still selling a product from a company that you're admitting to having an issue with? I hate to beat a dead horse but I'm having some trouble making sense out of what you're saying. Having personal issues with a company while directly profiting from their products seems hypocritical to me.

 

[Love My Zons]

So still selling a product from a company that you're admitting to having an issue with? I hate to beat a dead horse but I'm having some trouble making sense out of what you're saying. Having personal issues with a company while directly profiting from their products seems hypocritical to me.

RE-READ what I posted. I have sold NO BAGS OF THE FRUITBLEND YET.

If it sells or I donate it, whichever comes first I said.

I'm not being a hypocrite just stating how I feel about the product alltogether.

 

[Love My Zons]

I meant the Zupreem fruit blend. If you believe that dyes are bad and that a vet has told you that I’m the past I find it worrisome that you would still profit from sales of that product.

Instead of attacking me regarding this food, maybe you can preach to the choir and contact Chewy, Drs. Foster and Smith , Petco, Petsmart, and all the others stocking and selling more then me!

I've not sold one bag of it. It's in stock, yes. I may end up donating it, if not I'll toss it in the TRASH.

Go attack someone who isn't as honest as I no longer wanting to offer this food.

 

[Garet]

I don't mean to butt in or be rude, but if you believe that Zupreem is trash and may be the cause of many avian deaths at a rescue, why risk donating it to a different rescue? Wouldn't that just put other birds at risk?

 

[Milo]

Instead of attacking me regarding this food, maybe you can preach to the choir and contact Chewy, Drs. Foster and Smith , Petco, Petsmart, and all the others stocking and selling more then me!

I've not sold one bag of it. It's in stock, yes. I may end up donating it, if not I'll toss it in the TRASH.

Go attack someone who isn't as honest as I no longer wanting to offer this food.

I have no issue with the food, that's the platform that you've chosen to take. I've fed and would continue to feed my birds these products, and have never made posts saying that they are detrimental to birds' health. Again that's something that you've chosen to do, and yet you chose to stock them in your store. That's the point I'm stuck on, it just doesn't make sense. I'm sorry that you feel attacked.

 

[Love My Zons]

I don't mean to butt in or be rude, but if you believe that Zupreem is trash and may be the cause of many avian deaths at a rescue, why risk donating it to a different rescue? Wouldn't that just put other birds at risk?

I am not saying it KILLED ANY BIRDS. Due to the controversy around it and the added colors, I don't like it, I don't feed it and have decided I don't want to sell it.

 

[Garet]

Ah, okay. I was just curious.

 

[Love My Zons]

I have no issue with the food, that's the platform that you've chosen to take. I've fed and would continue to feed my birds these products, and have never made posts saying that they are detrimental to birds' health. Again that's something that you've chosen to do, and yet you chose to stock them in your store. That's the point I'm stuck on, it just doesn't make sense. I'm sorry that you feel attacked.

I have no said this food is detrimental to birds health.

20 years ago, I was told by Greg Harrison the colors are not good for birds. THE END.

If you are fine feeding it great. I see it for sale at my Avian and Exotic. Due to popular demand I bought it to sell it. I will sell out what I have of someone wants it or I'll donate it.

The dollar amount doesn't matter for taxes it's still a deduction no matter what happens if it ends up in the landfill by my choice if it doesn't sell.

If a nearby rescue wants it, if they feed it they can have it.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@Milo - Zupreem has some decent pellets - the fruity isn't one of them. Now that's my informed opinion and I have my right to it just like your have a right to your opinion

 

[Love My Zons]

"All natural" sources can be something to be argued about. Everything is "natural".

Artificial doesn't necessarily mean bad.

RED 40 isn't good.

 

[Love My Zons]

 

[Bokkapooh]

I agree with you to a degree, however your argument was that Zupreem uses Natural colors which is incorrect. They use artificial colors. And I think it's more appropriate to say everything is a chemical. Not everything is natural

inTune uses vegetables to color

Ground Corn, Brown Rice, Soybean Meal, Ground Wheat, Oat Meal, Sugar, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Alfalfa Nutrient Concentrate, Salt, Cranberries, Apples, Blueberries, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Spinach, Watercress, Brewer’s Dried Yeast, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Algae Meal, Mixed Tocopherols (preservative), Rosemary Extract, Potassium Chloride, Yeast Extract, Iron Oxide, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Turmeric, Annatto Extract, Beet Juice, Natural Banana Flavor, Natural Pineapple Flavor, Natural Citrus Flavor, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product.

I am not saying I agree that everything is "natural" but it's a valid argument which is why people have to be careful when they buy things "All natural". Companies can get away with labeling things "All natural" because they use natural sources to artificially create things.

 

[Bokkapooh]

So still selling a product from a company that you're admitting to having an issue with? I hate to beat a dead horse but I'm having some trouble making sense out of what you're saying. Having personal issues with a company while directly profiting from their products seems hypocritical to me.

So it gives her customers a time to switch foods. Many birds need a slow transition. This is how I see it.

 

[macawpower58]

I still check this thread for results.
I don't like to read it though, it's sad.
So much negativity against each other.

 

[SandraK]

I don't know if it the same type of colouring but one of my friends' sons had a problem with any type of coloured cereal and it (20+ years ago) had been narrowed down to the food colouring.

@Love My Zons May I suggest that instead of pitching it or donating it, you return it to Zupreem? Pitching it could mean something else might eat it, returning it might at least get you a credit towards another product. The latter would also prevent you from (possibly) being connected in any way with any bird's illness. It just keeps your business' name safe though nothing has officially been pointed at any corporation.

 

[Lady Jane]

Most recent FB post from the rescue:




Birds And Beaks Rescue and Rehab
March 8 at 11:18am ·
Unless we get new reports or information, this will be the last post about this for a while, or until the FDA/DoA comes back with their findings.

This is a response I made to a person on the thread where I shared Zupreem's latest update.

I'm EXHAUSTED by all the BS. Please make decisions for your birds based on how you feel. The decisions you make are yours.

Moving forward, after this post - it's going to be business as usual for the rescue and we're going to try to get back to some normalcy. I am so so so tired of the people out there talking crap. This is the best response I've got for them:

********

Diane, you seem well-meaning. And as such, I'm going to answer this.

11 birds died here. ELEVEN. Do you not think I've been over every square inch of this house? Do you think I haven't grilled everyone here without letting up? Do you not think I've probably given my children complexes for asking questions, non-stop all the time?

Do you not think that I relive this entire nightmare, second guessing everything multiple times per day?

The fire department was here within minutes. They used the 4 gas monitor and the carbon monoxide monitor. Every room of the house and they found nothing. They were smelling for things trying to help me figure it out. Nothing. They found NOTHING.

Didn't cook. Didn't mix any chemicals. Didn't use any chemicals. We WERE doing laundry. We use Tide Pods. It's on the 2nd floor. Didn't have a fire. No one was spraying pesticides or insecticides. We don't every have that crap in our home, and no one else was either - why? Why am I so sure? A) I asked. And B.) It was January In MICHIGAN. No one was crop dusting. Or spraying pesticides. At all. We don't have duct work or vents to transfer or push air around. We have radiant heaters with a boiler system.

If we're talking something sprayed like this, since you understand science, the little birds need way less of the toxin to be overwhelmed and die. We only lost 2 littles. And they were in our Dining Room. Through 2 sets of closed doors, 3 rooms away past an Austin Air Purifier.

7 Died in our aviary, 3 survived, one with terrible symptoms.

2 more died in the living room, through closed doors.

Let's say I had a big bottle of raid (which seems to be a fun theory on other groups), and lets say I let that bad-boy off in the aviary.

How does ANY bird survive in the aviary? All the large birds die, the smaller species survive.

Then, let's suppose I have my big badass bottle of raid, and I go to the living room. Straight to my own bird's cage that he share's with Hopi, a B&G. Charlie is a Greenwing. I spray Charlie. With Hopi in that cage with him. And he dies, she survives with no symptoms.

I then go to the opposite side of that large room, and I hit the cage in the middle. The Harlequin Macaw, Oliver. Mya, on the right of him and closest to the aviary survives. No symptoms. Oki, a Hyacinth on the other side of Oliver survives, no symptoms. So Oliver dies because he gets hit directly. Wouldn't that raid also go to the other cages and other birds in that room?

The littles oak aviary is enclosed by glass an has two small screen panels. It's 2 rooms away, through a closed door and past the big badass air purifier.

So then, the raid comes on in to the dining room, up to the ceiling and into the aviary? And only kills 2 of six little birds? If it was sprayed directly in there, they'd all be dead.

If you'd like to look at the most simple answer - it's this:

In the littles aviary, 3 birds will eat pellet. The others eat nutriberries and seed. 2 of the 3 that ate pellet are dead. The remaining bird that ate pellet nearly died.

In the living room.

Hopi and Charlie share a cage because they're bonded. Hopi waits for Charlie to finish eating before she'll eat. She won't eat pellet - only seed/nutriberries. Charlie sucks down pellet like it's candy. Charlie is dead, Hopi is very much alive, with no symptoms at all.

On the other side of that room, Mya is actually vitamin defficient to a detriment because she refuses pellet. She's alive, no issues. Oki didn't get that stuff because she's on a primary Mac nut diet. No symptoms there. Oliver is the only one who will eat the pellet there. He's dead.

And the aviary.

7 dead. 3 Survive, one with terrible symptoms.
Pretty much everyone in the aviary eats pellet with the exception of Anna and Rodriguez, Amazons. They survived. Everyone else is dead, with the exception of Cooper who eats it, but not as much as everyone else. And he's an eclectus with a longer digestive tract, and while gravely ill, survived.

I don't care about reputations. Mine or anyone else. I care about these birds. I AM open minded. If the vet, the environmentalist, animal control, the inspector and all these people can come here and go - oh there's no way this could be an air toxin based on location alone, AND THEY HAVE, I'm not sure what you'd like me to open my mind to? We don't keep a bunch of crap in our house.

If it could be something here, don't you think I'd be screaming at the top of my lungs warning people against it??

This has been the one of the hardest things I've ever had to maneuver through. And I am repeatedly getting kicked in the guts by people who don't know me.

Now add to that that people like you are telling people it was an aerosolized toxin instead of reading the necropsy and seeing INHALED OR INGESTED which, while I read your description above, can ALSO MEAN EATEN, and people like you are calling the food clear.

If the food was clear, the Department of Agriculture wouldn't have opened an FDA case, and the FDA wouldn't be continuing to collect bodies of other people who open new bags of this stuff, an their birds are dead a few hours later.

Thank you for your kind words of sympathy. But I'll stick with the scientists who've actually been here. The food is the simplest, most obvious culprit.

I apologize if I seem...angry? I don't know if angry is the right word. But the fact is I am. I am angry. And hurting. And omg so tired of people who weren't here, who don't know us, who don't know my home, or weren't privy to the conversations with all of these people who have been in and out of my home talking down to me, patting me on the head and saying how my grief is scrambling my brain.

If I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong. But I'm not sorry for being upfront. If someone else went through this and they had information that could potentially save the lives of my birds, and they didn't share it and I lost birds as a result, I would be FURIOUS.

 

[DQTimnehs]

It is sickening. I saw someone I know on FB spreading the rumour that she may have killed her own birds for money. As if. I don't know her but I know that is BS. It is absolutely heartbreaking. I hope they get some definitive answers. Then it will be over for us. It will never be over for those who lost birds.