1. Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Suspected PBFD

Discussion in 'Diseases' started by BigMacWonder, 10/29/18.

  1. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting! Crash Test Dummy Vendor

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    23,858
    Location:
    Northern Mitten Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    The part of the body that makes the most D3 is their bare eye patch :)

    Like Sarah said, it's not just about an antibiotic but the right one, right dosage, right time. Assuming it IS an infection, and not something environmental, fungal, virus, etc.
     
  2. Fia Baby

    Fia Baby Jogging around the block

    Joined:
    10/11/16
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Oregon
    Real Name:
    Beth
    When a bird molts out a feather - the normal process - the tissue and blood supply have receded and are no longer present in the quill. A molted feather is hollow and dry. Your bird is pulling out feathers that are still growing, so the tissue, the artery, the vein, are still present and providing nutrients for the growing feather. The dry, crusty ones are feathers where the tissue has had enough time to dry up, so it looks crumbly. The holes you see in the skin are the follicles she's pulled growing feathers out of. New ones will start to grow shortly, but if she continues to pull them, she'll eventually damage the follicles. There is a reason she's plucking, and you do need to look for it. Could be bacterial, parasitic, fungal... any number of things. I'd start with some cultures. Years ago I had a cockatoo who plucked and it drove me crazy. No one could find the cause. Finally, after a LONG time, he was diagnosed with coccidia. It can be challenging to find the cause. You need a good vet who can work with you on this.
     
    BigMacWonder and Hankmacaw like this.
  3. BigMacWonder

    BigMacWonder Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    2/4/14
    Messages:
    356
    Real Name:
    Anne
    Good morning from the east! This was the antibiotic the vet prescribed.

    @Fia Baby @Macawnutz

    I assumed it’s a broad spectrum antibiotic.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting! Crash Test Dummy Vendor

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    23,858
    Location:
    Northern Mitten Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    Yes Baytril (AKA Enrofloxacin) is a broad spectrum antibiotic
     
    BigMacWonder likes this.
  5. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/21/11
    Messages:
    28,341
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Real Name:
    Sarah


    Broad spectrum is not enough if it's resistant or not the cause.
     
    Mizzely likes this.
  6. BigMacWonder

    BigMacWonder Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    2/4/14
    Messages:
    356
    Real Name:
    Anne
    Then we will have problems because this is the second prescription for two weeks. I am hesitate to start after the first time. I am not sure the reason she keep prescribing the same meds. Blue could take the chemical despite its sweet. So...
     
  7. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Crash Test Dummy

    Joined:
    10/18/09
    Messages:
    9,917
    Location:
    Arizona
    Real Name:
    Mary Lynn Skinner
    @Macawnutz @enigma731 @iamwhoiam Take a look at at that prescription. It is 5% and says 2ml dosage 2x per day. Check that out guys it sounds like a very large dosage. I'll bet your Baytril is 2.27%.
     
    BigMacWonder likes this.
  8. BigMacWonder

    BigMacWonder Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    2/4/14
    Messages:
    356
    Real Name:
    Anne
    I don’t think it would because we never giving her antibiotic for no reasons and this is the first time that she require vet attention and medications. Unless there are other reasons that would cause the resistance of antibiotic?
     
  9. BigMacWonder

    BigMacWonder Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    2/4/14
    Messages:
    356
    Real Name:
    Anne
    I am out of that department. Hahahahaha
     
  10. enigma731

    enigma731 Rollerblading along the road Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    8/23/13
    Messages:
    1,534
    @Hankmacaw I don't have a great sense of how much is reasonable in a big bird, but I agree it sounds really high.

    I concur that the pics just look like plucking, not PBFD. The fact that the vet can't tell that concerns me.
     
    BigMacWonder likes this.
  11. Just-passn-thru

    Just-passn-thru Rollerblading along the road Mayor of the Avenue

    Joined:
    1/13/16
    Messages:
    4,222
    Location:
    Southern California
    Real Name:
    Suzanne
    Vet is not an Avian Vet, just giving baytril meds as a catchall .
     
    Fia Baby and BigMacWonder like this.
  12. tka

    tka Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    4/4/17
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    UK
    It depends on the strain of the bacteria. Unfortunately this is just going to be what she's been exposed to in the environment around her. Unless you're keeping her environment completely sterile - even more sterile than an operating theatre - she's going to be exposed to bacteria. There are lots of antibiotic-resistant strains out there and it's because we, as a society, tend to overuse antibiotics or use them incorrectly so the bacteria survive and build up resistance. It's becoming more and more common. This isn't an individual issue, and just because you've never given your bird antibiotics doesn't mean that she hasn't got some kind of antibiotic-resistant strain.
     
    Hankmacaw, BigMacWonder and Mizzely like this.
  13. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting! Crash Test Dummy Vendor

    Joined:
    8/9/11
    Messages:
    23,858
    Location:
    Northern Mitten Michigan
    Real Name:
    Shawna
    Additionally, broad spectrum is sort of like.. A general cleaner you might use in your bathroom. It cleans everything pretty good, but some things just really need bleach!
     
  14. enigma731

    enigma731 Rollerblading along the road Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    8/23/13
    Messages:
    1,534
    Right, but like...clearly lacking in basic bird experience too.

    Has there been any workup for giardia or other parasites?
     
    Hankmacaw likes this.
  15. BigMacWonder

    BigMacWonder Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    2/4/14
    Messages:
    356
    Real Name:
    Anne
    @Fia Baby Thank you for your explanation! Now I know understood. I do hoped I post here sooner as I was dancing around PBFD and secondary infections from something else.

    @tka now I understood! All this time I thought as long as we don’t overuse antibiotic then our body will not resisting to antibiotic. Thank you!

    I learnt a lot today! It just proves life is s learning curve! I am very very glad that I post a thread here. I certainly benefited a lot from your experience here. @Hankmacaw @Macawnutz @Mizzely @Fia Baby @tka @enigma731

    In defence of the vet, she isn’t specialise in Avian medicine. She is good in her field though.
    I am not sure about vets in US. Here, the vets like to use board spectrum antibiotic. Not that I agree with it though.
     
    Just-passn-thru likes this.
  16. Just-passn-thru

    Just-passn-thru Rollerblading along the road Mayor of the Avenue

    Joined:
    1/13/16
    Messages:
    4,222
    Location:
    Southern California
    Real Name:
    Suzanne

    Most regular dog and cat vets don't have training in avian medicine. I asked my dogs vet if he has any training in avian/ exotics ,he said only thing he has is a referance book. There are Vets that have a special interest in avian Medicine, that are not certified in avian Medicine. Many are not knowledge based in birds/ exotics.
     
    BigMacWonder likes this.
  17. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Crash Test Dummy

    Joined:
    10/18/09
    Messages:
    9,917
    Location:
    Arizona
    Real Name:
    Mary Lynn Skinner
    @BigMacWonder We are not saying that the bacteria (if it is bacteria) is immune to the Baytril because she has had too much Baytril. We are say ing that among the hundreds of thousands of bacteria the one she may have is resistant to Baytril because it is.


    These are the 10 most dangerous bacteria in the world and our parrots are susceptible to six of them.
    [​IMG]
    MRSA, Pseudomonas A, C. Difficile, E. Coli, Mycobacterium, Klebsiella P are possible Antibacteria Resistant bacteria for our birds.

    Each bacteria has it's own Achilles heel and no one antibiotic can kill every bacteria. In order for a vet to find out specifically which antibiotic will kill a bacteria he/she must perform a culture and sensitivity. A sample of mucus, blood, or suppurating wound is smeared on a petri dish with a medium to grow the bacteria - it is allowed to grow for approx. three days. At that time tiny samples of antibiotics are put on the bacterial growth and some will and some won't kill the bacteria. the Antibiotics are rated relative to their effectiveness and the results are sent to your Dr. The Pathologist will also identify specifically which bacteria it is and relay that information to your vet.

    A more exact culture and sensitivity can be done that will identify the sub genus of the bacteria - for example MRSA has four sub genuses.

    You should definitely have this test and identification done on your bird if the Baytril (which should show results in 48-72 hours.) is not showing improvement.
     
    tka, Mizzely, Lady Jane and 4 others like this.
  18. BigMacWonder

    BigMacWonder Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    2/4/14
    Messages:
    356
    Real Name:
    Anne
    Not sure about Gardia. Her droppings are firmed so maybe not likely to have instestinal parasites?

    My Galah had Protozoa but died from intestinal bleeding. This I blamed the vet. It isn’t the same vet who prescribed blue with antibiotic. This one claimed she worked in Jurong Bird Park before. She gave doxycycline to treat Protozoa instead of the right one! Then blamed me for feeding him too much foods after the course finished and I asked for another stain gram on his poop. That was when we found blood in his dropping and she said I fed too much! So I reduced to the amount she said, four days later I had to send my dead bird fur post mortem! There were no foods in the stomach! And we found out internal bleeding!

    It was last year, 22th April! I am not sure Protozoa can leave outside the host for more than a year.
    They never lived in the same room but she played at the same area where the Galah used to.
     
  19. Just-passn-thru

    Just-passn-thru Rollerblading along the road Mayor of the Avenue

    Joined:
    1/13/16
    Messages:
    4,222
    Location:
    Southern California
    Real Name:
    Suzanne
    @BigMacWonder
    Here is something that you can reference, and signs to look for print keep this handy...

    Signs of A Sick Bird...
    Post this on your refrigerator and read it every morning.
    Examine every bird in your care, every day and answer the following:
    Is my bird looking as perky as he or she did yesterday? Are the eyes as bright and wide open as yesterday? Are the eyes closed or squinting? You are the best judge of your bird’s general well being. Changes in energy level, vocalization patterns or unusual behaviors such as unwillingness to “step up” when he or she is usually eager, may be subtle signs of an illness. He or she may also be telling you that “I vant to be alone, This is my day to cocoon!” If this change in behavior persists more than 24 hours, you definitely need to seek veterinary advice.

    Are there any changes in the appearance of my birds droppings? Are there as many droppings as usual?

    Are there any unusual colors in the droppings? Look for lime green or iridescent yellow.

    These colors could be signs of an infection or liver problems. But don’t panic! A single dropping doesn’t mean anything.

    A pattern observed over a couple of days may be significant. Remember that the amount of liquid is directly related to the water content of the diet.
    If you are feeding primarily vegetables and fruits you will observe loose droppings.
    Also don’t panic if you see red droppings after feeding something red.
    Colored pellets may also add color to the feces. A single dropping doesn’t mean anything, but a pattern can be significant and if it persists you must call your Avian Vet.

    Does my bird have a pasty vent?

    This is a simple exam that every bird owner can do.

    If your bird is used to you holding him or her upside down, you will find it really easy to examine the vent.

    There should be no sign of feces adhering to it or anywhere on the underside. If you’re not sure what to look for, be sure to ask your vet or breeder.
    Even if you can’t hold your bird on the back, get down and check out the underside. Pasty vent is usually easily observable and is almost always a sign of infection. Call your vet and discuss your observations.

    Is my bird fluffed?
    This is a most important indicator of a sick bird. Birds normally fluff when they nap or sleep, or if the room is too cold.
    However, a bird that sits in the corner of his cage and acts uncharacteristically lethargic may be showing subtle signs of illness that require prompt medical care from your avian vet.

    If a bird is fluffed for more than a few hours it is probably sick and requires prompt medical care from your avian vet.

    Is my bird wheezing or sneezing?

    All birds sneeze occasionally and this is probably However, wet sneezes are usually not normal, unless your bird has bathed or immersed its head in the water crock.

    Repeated wet sneezes require prompt medical care from your avian vet. Wheezes, unusual whistling noises, and noises you observe as your bird breathes are usually signs of a respiratory problem that requires prompt medical attention from your avian vet.

    These problems include:
    Blockage of the air passage because a parrot has inhaled a seed, toy part or even a nutshell fragment. Many sudden deaths of otherwise healthy birds have resulted from such a blockage.
    Fungal infections including Aspergillosis are extremely debilitating to a parrot.
    Sometimes these infections have been longstanding and your bird may have been suffering from the ravages of these infections for a long time before you observe symptoms. Immediate treatment is needed to save the infected bird. Remember that fungal spores are circulating in most of our homes.

    Are the nares (nostrils) clean? Or is the beak encrusted?

    There should be no mucus or discharge around the 2 small openings above the beak which equates with our nostrils .

    Sometimes when a bird has an upper respiratory infection, you may even see mucous bubbling around the nares as the bird breathes.
    Another indicator of a respiratory infection may be a dry, crusty buildup on the beak. If any of these conditions are present your bird requires prompt medical care from your avian vet.

    Is my bird’s tail bobbing in rhythm with its breathing? Tail bobbing is usually associated with breathing difficulties. Such a subtle behavior requires that you watch your bird carefully. This condition requires prompt medical care from your avian veterinarian.

    All birds, including our parrots are masters of masquerade. This is because they are preyed upon in the wild and like all weakened animals they will be the first choice of predators.

    This is why they try to mask any sign of slowness or illness and why we must look so closely and learn to recognize subtle signs and indicators.
    Often, when a bird lets down his or her guard and shows signs of illness, the situation is critical. This is why we must safeguard their health, monitor health status, and provide prompt medical care.

    PREVENTION

    Remember “we are what we eat”! Many infections can be fought off when your bird has a strong immune system.

    Weigh your bird at least once a week, and be sure that it is at the same time every day. It is best to weigh first thing in the AM and keep records. A drop in weight of more than 5% in a week means that your bird needs a veterinary consultation.

    This advice is meant only as a guideline and is definitely not a substitute for advice or recommendations provided by an avian veterinarian.
     
    Lady Jane and BigMacWonder like this.
  20. BigMacWonder

    BigMacWonder Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    2/4/14
    Messages:
    356
    Real Name:
    Anne
    @Hankmacaw
    It isn’t up to me. We don’t have lab or psychologist in this town to do so. However the vet said she can do culture. Then probably need to send to the university 2.5hrs flight away
     

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)