Sudden death after loss of grip strength

[Kisota]

Hey all,

I'm sharing this unfortunate news in the hopes that some knowledge can be gained.

We lost my beloved cockatiel Tilli this week in a strange and unexpected way. I'm waiting on necropsy results, which I will of course share with you all. But in the meantime I'm curious whether any of you have had similar experiences with your own birds. I'm also wondering what you all make of my experience with the emergency vet, as I'm more than a bit frustrated.

A bit of background on Tilli:
* She had some recurrent crop / GI infections a few years back. She was about 5 when she passed away this week.
* After several infections, I took her to the fantastic Dr. Dahlhausen who identified a stubborn spirilla bacteria infection in her crop, which had not been effectively treated by her previous antibiotics. The irritation from those bacteria was likely making her get secondary infections, which is why she'd sort of improve for a while.
Since then, she's been pretty healthy. Dr. Dahlhausen said she had some signs of minor allergies, but wasn't concerned.
* However, she has seemed to always have extra watery droppings.

More recent info:
* In the last couple weeks, I started thinking Tilli's droppings seemed especially watery, and thought I might be noticing her being a tiny bit sluggish. As I've mentioned here before, Tilli has always been a really low-energy bird, so it can be hard to tell if she's less energetic. She wasn't seeming weak or uncomfortable.
* I did, however, think I saw her gag as if to regurgitate once or twice, and thought I saw a bit of regurgitated food spatter in her cage.
* Because my sister's old cockatiel very recently died and I was thinking about it a lot, I was worried I was being overly vigilant about Tilli, but for our peace of mind, we took her to her regular vet anyway. They did a fecal and looked her over and found nothing wrong with her. Her weight was stable, no infections. So I started to think huh, I guess her poops are just like that? maybe I should stop fretting about them?

Now, just this week...

My partner said Tilli's grip was a little weak on Tuesday morning, and she slipped off his hand a bit to fly to her cage. He didn't think much of it since she hopped and climbed in her cage fine to get to her food.

But when he got home from work, he found her on the floor of her cage, uncomfortable, and not curling her toes whatsoever. Otherwise, she was alert and not breathing in a labored way or showing any neurological symptoms. But he rushed her an hour away to the emergency clinic at Colorado State University. Unfortunately, I was several hours away on field work and couldn't be there...

The doctor there found her to be stable and couldn't find anything apparent other than the obvious pain and not using her toes. She could stand and even kind of walk. They called one of their exotics experts, whose top guesses were "gout" and "atherosclerosis." They wanted to delay any further diagnostics until morning and just keep her on pain meds overnight.

I asked him to get the doctor back in the room and got on speaker phone to ask about the possibility of more acute things like toxins, and to express my concern that, given her fast decline, the situation was more dire than they were currently treating it. Given that she had not real neurological symptoms, they did not suspect something like heavy metal poisoning. She was pooping, so they did not suspect egg binding either (but I wonder if the doc on call knew how to palpate for one). Though she was stable at the moment, I really was pretty shocked that they didn't want to treat a small bird in rapid decline with more urgency.

But it seemed like that was all they were really willing to do, and they assured me their critical care unit required check-ins every hour or two.

They checked in twice. The first time she looked about the same, and the second, she was dead.

We are devastated and mystified. The shock has worn off and now I'm just missing my girl so much.

I'm really eager to hear what the necropsy turns up. I hope we can get some answers. It's frustrating to know that I sensed something was up and we didn't figure anything out in time, despite my intuitions and insistence to vets. Given the weird poops she's always had, I won't be surprised if some kind of underlying kidney problem turns up. I'm also eager to hear whether atherosclerosis turns up. Mostly, I just want to understand what happened... but, secondarily, I really hope it wasn't something I could have prevented if I'd been more diligent or something. I feel absolutely terrible and am horrified that she may have been in pain for longer than we realized... it is heartbreaking to consider.

I've heard of birds losing foot function like that, and my impression was that it was frequently neurological or related to things like eggs or tumors impeding the function. Anybody have any experience with something like this?

Anyway... I'll let you guys know what I find out.

I lost my first tiel girl in a sudden, premature way too, but that was a known cause - prolapse from her persistent egg-laying. It was an equally frustrating scenario. Even Lupron injections hardly curbed the problem.

My life is so much emptier without her here. It is strange, because I've never felt this way so soon after losing a pet before, but honestly, it feels like finding another girl to dote on would help me heal. I hope I can find another tiel with such a sweet, cuddly personality.

 

[Hawk12237]

So sorry for your loss. It's never easy.
Birds are masters of disguise when it comes to issues. Usually when you really notice symptoms it's in a pretty progressive state. Not always the case, but usually.
Neurological problems can come from a variety of issues. Such as head injury, keel injury, pinched nerve, and infection and etc.
Some families of particular bacteria are just not good for birds, and trouble some for them in harmful ways. I practice total hygienic conditions with food, water and birds invironment. clean clean clean. That's my practice. Bacteria can grow rapidly so it's good to practice that.
We'll wait to hear what the report revealed.

 

[Mizzely]

Other issues with losing grip can be nutritional deficiencies. My Jardine's would randomly lose grip when he first came here and it was considered to be a lack of calcium/D3.

I'm so sorry for your loss. It is always so hard no matter the circumstances.

 

[Nikomania]

This is so heartbreaking. You both did absolutely everything in your power to help her. Hopefully her necropsy will shed some light on what has happened to her.
I'm so very sorry.

 

[Kisota]

She's been on Roudybush pellets and Nutriberries the whole time I've had her. While she never really liked any moist produce, I baked bread with vegetables in it for her and things like that, and she always had access to cuttlebone, so I hope I didn't deprive her of anything. She didn't have any recent injuries that should explain the foot problem. Pinched nerves and whatnot were something on my mind, hence my concern about eggbinding or tumors.

As for sanitation...I've also been giving her water from a filter pitcher forever, and using the F10 SC veterinary-level disinfectant, so hopefully I wasn't neglecting cleanliness either.

I know it wasn't anything in the air, since our conure is fine, and I got rid of all my Teflon / nonstick stuff and candles, etc to keep them safe.

It's so disheartening to feel like I've done everything in my power to give my baby a good, safe, healthy life and still couldn't protect her. Thanks for your thoughts, everybody. <3

 

[iamwhoiam]

So very sorry for your loss. Hope the necropsy will give you some information. Sometimes the results can be inconclusive but I hope you will get some answers.

 

[TikkiTembo]

So sorry for your loss. It sounds like you did everything you could to give her a healthy life, and to care for her when she needed it. I hope you're able to feel peace soon, and don't feel guilty for already wanting to love another. Sometimes, that's the best way to heal, and I'd like to think that our pets would.want us to give a loving home to another. Sending hugs

 

[Tiel Feathers]

Oh I’m so very sorry about the loss of your sweet bird. You did everything you could, so don’t blame yourself, and I hope you get some answers.

 

[janicedyh]

I know you are heartbroken, It always so difficult losing such a sweet soul

 

[CrazyKozmo]

So sorry for your loss. Please let us know any findings from the necropsy.

 

[zoo mom]

So sorry for your loss.

 

[sunnysmom]

I'm very sorry for your loss and hope you get some answers. It does sound like to me that perhaps it was something neurological. If that was the case, there probably wasn't anything that could be done.

 

[Kisota]

Thanks, everyone. The shock has sort of worn off, so the grief is feeling a lot worse on us.

Preliminary necropsy results may be in sometime next week, but it could be 6 weeks before we get full results...

 

[JoJo&Loki]

So sorry for your loss. They always take a piece of our hearts with them I’m also sorry you couldn’t be with her when it happened, but you did what you could to help her!

And yes, I was frustrated for you just reading about your interaction with the emergency vets. If I read that correctly you wanted more testing done and they refused, as she was “stable”? Even if it was a situation that couldn’t have been helped, it’s not right that they discounted your concerns. If you were willing to pay for more tests/treatments...why would they refuse to do it!?!? Did they feel they’d be too intrusive in the state she was in? It doesn’t sound like it though...

Never doubt the power of a mother’s intuition.

 

[Kisota]

Results are in.

Chronic kidney failure with metastatic mineralization. The exact cause is not certain, but their best guess is that she was one of the uncommon birds who do poorly on a mostly pellet-based diet. If you look up kidney failure and pelleted diets, you'll find that this is a known, but uncommon thing.

It kills me knowing that not only was her food slowly making her sicker, but I THOUGHT I was doing well. Not only that, but I also saw signs for a long time that something wasn't quite normal with her. I always thought her poop was a bit odd. That's actually why she was at her darned regular vet two weeks prior to her death. They found no infection and I told my partner for the next two weeks "Well, I guess maybe I need to stop worrying so much about her poop being weird, if it can be like this and she's not even ill." I told myself "maybe she's just like this, I guess."

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I need to get better at trusting my gut, but I would not have known what to really pressure a vet to *do*.

It's devastating feeling like my bird was slowly dying the whole time I had her and I could have stopped it at any time, had I only known. I even had suspicions something was up, and I still wasn't quite able to stop it. I was so, so close.

I would have done anything for Tilli. She was my best pal. I saw the signs, and the answer was right under my nose for so long. I never even got the chance to fight against the disease.

Now I'm left wondering if she would have lived a longer, healthier life on a crappy seed diet like someone else might have given her. I miss her so darn much and knowing that this was going on has redoubled my grief. In the meantime, I'm making sure that fresh chop and sprouts and fresh-food treats are a more consistent part of my conure's diet.

Anyway, if anyone sees this thread or has similar odd symptoms, I hope this information can be of use.

Always trust your gut. Check droppings carefully - they might be the only sign something is up. Check for normal amounts of fluid and healthy, well-formed urates. Her poop often seemed to have less urates than they should, or the urates would be somewhat stringy or strangely formed.

And for heck's sake, go to a proper avian vet. A regular one won't know all the weird things to look for for more uncommon and chronic bird illnesses.

 

[TikkiTembo]

Don't beat yourself up! You gave her the healthiest life you could, it just didn't work out the way we all hope it will. It could happen to absolutely any of us. Give your conure lots of kisses, you're a good parront!!

 

[JoJo&Loki]

I am so very sorry this news has you feeling this way. Please don’t be hard on yourself. You could not have known that was the cause. I just went back and reread your original post and now more than ever I believe this is something the vet should have caught.

If it is possible for something good to come out of this tragedy- you’ve just done it. One day someone in this situation may come across this post looking for answers. You may have just saved a bird’s life
I hope you can find some peace in that, as well as the memories of your sweet Tilli.

 

[Hawk12237]

That's devastating news. I asked my wife about that as she works directly under an avian vet.
Said surprisingly it's not uncommon, to see birds come in sick from a pellet only diet. Many times it turns out to be contaminated pellets, or pellets stored improperly, where mold develops.
Even from manufacturer, nothing is 100% safe. There are variables and mistakes in processes. Then a hand full of bad packaged pellets can get into the public. In turn harms the bird.
You've heard of contamination in dog food, that killed many dogs. Think hard about that.
My birds don't get much store bought pellets.
At most they get a couple teaspoons a week.
I do the fresh homemade veggies, grains and fruit when I can. If an item I can't get, then alternative is store bought.
I feel for your loss, it's not easy, so many things go through your head, I've been there.
And yes trust your gut instinct.

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

 

[Monica]

So sorry for your loss It sucks losing them at such a young age! I really think that genetics or something else had to play a role as a pellet based diet should not have caused a death that early.

I lost one conure at a young age also to kidney failure, but he came to me pretty sick to begin with... another conure at a young (but older) age due to cancer. Unfortunately, all the testing and x-rays never showed cancer but obviously something was wrong.


I still have my first cockatiel and she turned 18 years old back in June. I can't imagine life without her! I feed my little birds a 50/50 seed to pellet ratio along with fresh foods and I whole-heartedly believe in allowing flight! Right now I do have one cockatiel *NOT* getting any seeds. He got sick and for whatever reason, just wouldn't get better. Meds, supplements, etc. He just failed to revive. I cut seeds out of his diet and he's getting better. Still not where I want him to be, but better. I don't plan on keeping seeds out of his diet forever, just for now. Heck, my vets office (vet and their assistance's) yell at me for taking seed out of a sick cockatiel's diet!



I do remember years ago though when I lost a budgie in a similar fashion as your cockatiel. He was a gorgeous little guy and one day he just started losing the use of his legs. It got to the point that he had *NO* use of his legs at all, they were completely stiff but he was still alive. Unfortunately back then, I lived in a tiny little town (1/4 mile long, less than 100 people) with no vets around. He was young, I was young and inexperienced. My birds ate a primarily seed diet back then. Pellets were not a part of their diet. (probably didn't even know what those were back then! - and probably very many other people as well) I wish I knew what ended his life.