Smallish birds vs big birds

[Fia Baby]

You can look at it this way. Say you were to have a child and soon thereafter you learn your child is handicapped. It will still grow up and become an adult but it will never progress beyond the mental age of 4-5. "YOU" are going to be the center of the universe for this child for the rest of your life simply because this child requires it and you "committed" to having that child. He is yours.

I always find statements/explanations of this nature to be so offensive to those of us who have handicapped children. "Taking care of my bird is so difficult that it's like living with your child." Please do not compare pet ownership to raising a handicapped child.

 

[JLcribber]

You'll need to elaborate on why what I said was so offensive to you because I'm baffled? I didn't say anything mean or belittling or derogatory about handicapped people? I simply made a comparison using an analogy to make a point.

I did not intend to offend anyone. If I did I apologize.

 

[Fia Baby]

@JLcribber - the comparison in itself is offensive to people who have disabled children, I am not the only one. Any time someone makes the comparison that _____________ (fill in the blank) is as bad as having a disabled child, it hits home. I do realize that it wasn't intentional; I don't think these comments are usually intended to be offensive.

 

[Holiday]

This is, for better or worse, a common analogy. I have a 12 year old stepson, and I have macaws. I can see the similarities without needing to equate them in value in some way, but if my stepson were disabled, I might take issue with the analogy, maybe. They certainly are different living beings with different levels of need. None of this has much bearing on how the beings are treated, unless, perhaps it helps the parrots. I'm not going to put my stepson in a cage, but I am going to treat my macaws like kids to some degree because I try to value them in ways that move beyond the "possession" model of "pet." I think, generally, that the child/parrot analogy benefits the parrots without doing much harm to the children to whom they're compared. I'd like it if all of our community members could give each other the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Laurul Feather Cat]

Those of us who treat our pets like children and don't have children are at times judged negatively by people who have children. My Mom and Dad had me as their first born child; a "normal" child, a little more intelligent according to IQ measurement, but with a normal physiology, physiognomy and mentally "normal" developmental package. My parents did not know they carried a time bomb in their genes which would cause the rest of their children to be either born dead, aborted in the second or third trimester or have extensive heart or lung internal deformities: my parents were Rh negative antagonistic. I was completely normal and every child after me would not be anywhere near normal. Plus, the more they tried to have a normal chld, the worse the problem would get. (This was in the 1950s. Science knew enough to understand why the children were naturally aborted or those that survived birth were hugely handicapped with abnormal internal birth defects, mainly of the heart, lungs. But they did not have a treatment or cure for the problem except to tell couples with RH syndrome to not have children after their first normal birth. This was somewhat stupid since the syndrome was diagnosed by multiple miscarriages and then a blood test to nail down the dx.) My Mom and Dad kept trying to have a normal birth after me and four years and one born dead baby and three miscarriages after I was born, my brother was born with Tetralogy of Fallot; where his blood vessels and the architecture of his heart were abnormal. These kids were termed "blue babies" and treated medically with heart meds, giving them maybe five or six years of life. That is, until Alfred Blalock and Helen Taussig figured out a surgical patch and reroute for the syndrome which could give the child decades of near normal life. So there was four-year-old normal me and my truly majorly handicapped brother. Of course Mom honed in on the male heir-apparent and I pretty much was a hanger on, always second best. After-all, if I were left to my own devices and given adequate food, water, clothing and schooling, I would not die in a few days, I would be fine. But my brother.... Without one on one nursing by my mother, he would die. Being placed with my real paternal grandmother kept me alive and was legal care, but was a nightmare of mental and emotional abuse every day while Dad worked his job to provide money and Mom stayed and took care of Tommy at the hospital.

Why do I bring this up? Normal me raised me with help from many different family members while my Mom and Dad concentrated on keeping my brother alive. It became easier to do that after he had a blue baby operation in 1956. But still, he got all the attention. I swore I would not have kids and then ignore them like I was ignored by my parents. So, I have no children. Yes, my multiple pets are my child substitute; first the cats (I once owned 28 of them at one time enabled by my wife, Pam), and then the birds after Pam left me with all the cats, three dogs and 17 birds when she got religion and moved out. One of the biggest gossip criticisms I would over hear at work, the Y, etc, was "but she treats those animals like children and wants everyone to be as interested in her pictures of those animals as we are in our children!" And that hurt. Hurt a lot." So my 'kids' are animals" I told one very vocal critic who didn't want to see my pictures, "Well, truthfully, so are yours. I look at your child animal pictures. Why can't you look at mine and smile and nod like I do when I look at yours?"

One thing I did tell them, having birds was not like having handicapped children; my birds were not handicapped, they were normal for their species, and there was no comparison between the parrots and my handicapped brother. But they continued to see my parrots as handicapped children and they could not be more wrong in their judgement. Parrots are parrots and act and think like parrots, not children; and especially not like handicapped children. But any time this subject comes up, I remember those illicit gossipy conversations when they didn't think I was in or near the room and it makes me so angry...

Sorry. Guess you got stuck in my naturally occurring group therapy tonight.

 

[Fia Baby]

@Laurul Feather Cat - Lois that's a sad life story, but even more sadly, it's not unusual. I'm a speech pathologist and I've had patients who were severely impaired - I've watched how their families have had to sacrifice everything, even their other typical children, to care for that one child. I know it hurts everyone involved, and can leave the typical child/children feeling angry and unloved. You were all caught in a no-win situation, and I imagine your parents knew how you were suffering but truly didn't know how to manage things any other way. It can be impossible to do well.

 

[Calpurnia]

Any time someone makes the comparison that _____________ (fill in the blank) is as bad as having a disabled child, it hits home.

Genuine question: if John had simply omitted the word "handicapped" and said "imagine you have a child that never grows past the age of 4-5" would you still find this to be offensive towards those raising disabled children? This was the message I got from his original comment, NOT that he was trying to say that having a large bird is on the same level as raising a handicapped child. I saw his use of the word handicapped as a way to explain why a child may not progress past a certain mental age, yes, a word that could have been avoided if we were all going to be 100% PC. I don't think the intention was to try and trivialize the care of a disabled child at all, or somehow equate life with one as something "less".

We do see the comparison of parrots to a "child that never grows up" all the time. And like @Holiday mentions, I do think it is beneficial to have an analogy to give to naive parrot owners. Especially if the idea of owning a perpetual toddler causes them to reconsider the commitment of a macaw or cockatoo. Or if the analogy helps them structure their lives around their bird and/or look at it's behaviors from a different point of view.

 

[Fia Baby]

It would be less so, but even better is the "perpetual toddler" comparison. "Perpetual toddler" seems to carry no negative connotations, and I think it's a more useful and precise comparison.

 

[cassiesdad]

It would be less so, but even better is the "perpetual toddler" comparison. "Perpetual toddler" seems to carry no negative connotations, and I think it's a more useful and precise comparison.

I totally agree. When I talk to people about birds -Milton in particular- I say that he is a very quick learner, just like a child is. Then I say the child builds on the previously learned knowledge...hopefully for the rest of their life.
Milton learns things, and for the most part, stays with that level of knowledge permanently... so your "perpetual toddler" is quite accurate. Once in a great while, Milty will build on learned knowledge, and add a concept onto the previously learned concept.
Whenever Milty is offered a treat, he responds, "I LOVE IT". As I give him little bits of the treat, I will tell him, " Here's more"...when we are through, I tell him "There's no more, we're finished".
Imagine what I thought the first time as I was offering a treat when Milton said "I LOVE...MORE" right after the first bite. I hadn't gotten around to the key phrase "Here's more" yet.
To this day, Milty still says "I LOVE MORE" when we are sharing a treat. He will also use the word "MORE" when it comes to showering and scritches, both of which he enjoys immensely...

 

[SpecialistElbru]

Not trying to take this post too far off-topic.

I volunteered for a zoo for over 4 years. <snip> Having handled, fed, and cleaned up after these birds for so long I thought I knew what it would be like to live with one.

What I didn't realize is I had completely taken for granted my ability to "walk away" at the end of the day. Sure I had to listen to the toos scream for 2-3 hours but that was not a good taste into what the reality of bringing a large bird into your home can be.

As I have stated in the past, I volunteer at a facility that a few large parrots. I love working with most of them, but I have to remind myself that, the ability to get away from them is a huge advantage. I have had a few people ask me why I don't just get a parrot of my own, and try and give a similar answer to the one what Calpurnia said.

In my current living situation, it would be impossible to have a parrot. I wonder if something were to happen to the owner of the place where I volunteer, would I be able to take any of the birds? I think if my living situation was better, I might try to take Gizmo. I think of her because Gizmo and I seam to have an understanding and expectation of each other. It seems that maybe this would make life with her more manageable. But still I wonder.


Edit:spelling

 

[Peppo]

Ok, a little levity here....
The difference between teenagers and parrots: My teenager argues 100% of the time, Paco only argues 50%.
My chances of winning the argument is about equal in both cases.

 

[Bokkapooh]

@JLcribber - the comparison in itself is offensive to people who have disabled children, I am not the only one. Any time someone makes the comparison that _____________ (fill in the blank) is as bad as having a disabled child, it hits home. I do realize that it wasn't intentional; I don't think these comments are usually intended to be offensive.

John never said BAD.

It would be less so, but even better is the "perpetual toddler" comparison. "Perpetual toddler" seems to carry no negative connotations, and I think it's a more useful and precise comparison.

So it's about word semantics.

Nothing John said was offensive. He never said anywhere that comparing anyone that anyone was as BAD as another. Those were your words.

The words "mentally handicapped", "perpetual child", etc are basically the same thing if one phrase replaced the other. Neither should be considered insensitive or offensive.

I think your mind might have conjured those feeling when you added the word "As BAD as..."?

I personally have compared cockatoos to the mentally handicap behavior as the comparison is near flawless and people can relate. There is nothing wrong with the handicap. I have also used many anologies to compare male cockatoos to male human behavior. But I am not trying to belittle or demean men when I talk about male cockatoos and our men. As cockatoo owners, we feel that they are very much like people. Their emotions are so much more like us more so than a dog or a cat or that of other birds. They're so Intuned to our emotions and body language on the scale of primates that its hard NOT to compare them to people so people can relate and understand.

 

[Fia Baby]

@Bokkapooh - I can assure you it's offensive, whether it's intended or not. My mind didn't conjure anything. I don't think John intended to offend anyone. You can keep using whatever terms you like, but know that you are hurting people depending on your choice of words. We have other comparisons floating around that are less ambiguous that I'm sure you'll agree are offensive. If you are comparing cockatoos to mentally handicapped people, you are most certainly being offensive. It is surprising to me that this is still news to people; I thought we'd made more progress than this, as a society.

No more of this, please.

 

[Distaff]

I think a lot of it is deciding what you want your life to revolve around. I'm already tied down with the livestock, so adding another reason to make it hard to vacation wasn't really a game changer. On the other hand, the last thing I want is something that requires a lot of focus, and a lot of extra time.

Little birds make the house cheerful, and fit well into my routine. My anchor is more the goats, chickens, rabbits and the greenhouse/garden. A big more demanding bird would just make me feel scattered and pulled in too many directions.

 

[jmfleish]

Ok, a little levity here....
The difference between teenagers and parrots: My teenager argues 100% of the time, Paco only argues 50%.
My chances of winning the argument is about equal in both cases.

LOL!

 

[Tyrion]

I have had and have both ...Littles are wonderful and so are larger fids ..I have middles I guess you would say or are they considered bigger middles or smaller biggers ..anyway they are all different ..when I had tiels they consumed my life as all my animals do ...I throw my life into my animals and fit my life around them ..I believe that if you have animals they need to become apart of your family and should be treated as so no matter how big they are ...there is out of cage time ..out of house time for the furries ...we have even incorporated the wild birds into our financial life now so we can afford to feed them ..once you start you have to keep it up they rely on you as well ....I think the bigger birds need more time then the littles but its all relevant to how you want to look after them ....are the biggers more intelligent I dont know Tyrion is so smart but is he smarter then the tiels were ...hard to say they learned alot my tiels .... and Lagatha doesnt say a word but she figured out how to escape her cage ...they are all different and you cant really put one against another ....my days were pretty well the same with the littles as with my Tyrion and Lagatha ...cages get cleaned ...they get out of cage time ..they get taught stuff ...they get loved ...it may be slightly different but I really cant say having one over the other is hugely different ...maybe the noise level is louder now

 

[JLcribber]

I throw my life into my animals and fit my life around them ..I believe that if you have animals they need to become apart of your family and should be treated as so no matter how big they are

Well said. It's all about priorities.

 

[SueA555]

I've had a lot of smaller and medium sized birds. The larger birds seemed more intelligent, and interacted with me, talking and being affectionate, etc. Now I one Jardines named Joey. He is 18, and I got him when he was four months old. He didn't bother my other birds -- they were older and died. He seems happy as a single bird, and I am too. Since I retired, we have become much closer since I can spend more time with him.

I have asthma, and all the dusty birds don't work for me.

I never wanted a large bird -- maybe I'm still intimidated by them.

 

[faislaq]

if I shut the bathroom door they are strong enough to push down the handle and let themselves in. If you were to lock the door they would remove the trim before you could pee.

Haha! We've only had Buzzard for a month and a half. Is this what I have to look forward to as he grows more comfortable moving through the house??

 

[Macawnutz]

Haha! We've only had Buzzard for a month and a half. Is this what I have to look forward to as he grows more comfortable moving through the house??

Absolutely! He will start small, by the time he is taking down the house you will be accustomed to it.