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Sick?! Amazon, please help!

Clueless

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That vet you talked to P***es me off. A good vet will start from the basics, get results and ignore anything that doesn't apply and only test farther where the original tests point. And anyone who claims to be a veterinarian doesn't give up before he even starts. Pffft - I'm mad now. My vet happens to be an amazing diagnostician and there are others like that out there.
100 % agree

There are GOOD VETS THAT CARE out there. When you get one that doesn't care a flying fig about the bird...... take your beloved pet somewhere else.

It's like us calling the dr and saying our child has a headache. The dr then replying it could be a brain tumor but it will cost thousands to find out. The drs don't start out that way with humans!!!!
 

iamwhoiam

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I hope that you can find a good vet and take your BFA in to see him. Very sad that regarding the information that vet gave you. You need to bring him in and once a vet sees him they can decide what types of diagnostic testing need to be done. They shouldn't guess regarding what is needed and the expenses before seeing him.

You can search here and possibly find a better vet local to you:
Association of Avian Veterinarians
 

greys4u

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And if you can get a vet that can help you (and I'm sure there is) write down the prices for each test. My vet gives a breakdown of the costs and then you can pick out the necessary ones.
 

MommyBird

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I just want to point out that you say the behavior started "shortly after he arrived". It may have been going on at your uncles house too. You were not familiar with his or any birds behaviors at first to see these were abnormal, plus any bird - especially one in a new and to their thinking possibly dangerous-environment will try hard to mask any signs of illness.
That vet is not worth dealing with. He will never be of any help once he has decided to write you off.
In the short term, work on his diet. Yes Vitamin A is often deficient but I don't think it would cause those symptoms. Heavy metals are a possibility though.
Start with a basic bloodwork panel, that should include stuff like white blood call count for infection, and liver values. Add on test for heavy metals like zinc and lead.
I don't think you have to drive to a superstar vet 4 hours away to get started. Find a competent avian vet that isn't the one you talked to and go for a physical and bloodwork.
You can use a new cat/dog carrier with added low perch and towel or carpet- covered floor to travel in.
If you want to go for the big guns at first by all means do it.....but it should be started sooner rather than later.
 

tka

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The OP is in Wales, in the UK. Pricing can be different here so US prices aren't very useful. There also seem to be much fewer vets who have any experience with exotic birds. The competent avian vets *are* often some distance away.

Getting to the root of a neurological issue can be very involved and very expensive, especially if you need to do any soft tissue imaging e.g. through an MRI or CAT scan. However, blood tests should be in the region of £400 - that's what I paid in Brighton. Obviously this differs by practice.

What bothers me about the vet in Rhyl is that he immediately quoted you thousands of pounds without even seeing your parrot and, more worryingly, he didn't say anything about consulting with avian specialists or doing an initial examination then referring you to a more experienced vet.

If you want to try finding a more experienced vet, this is what to look for. The highest qualification in the UK is the RCVS Recognised Specialist in Zoo and Wildlife Medicine. There is also the RCVS Certificate in Advanced Veterinary Practice (Zoological Medicine) - this is sometimes abbreviated as CertAVP (Zoological Medicine). Both of these are postgraduate qualifications, meaning that the vet has graduated from a degree programme, is currently practicing and is doing these qualifications as part of their continuing professional development.

You can click on "Zoo and Wildlife Medicine" in this list: List of RCVS Specialists - Find A Vet - this gives you a list of Recognised Specialists. As I said, this is the highest level of qualification and not many people have it.

The list of Advanced Practitioners is here: 43 Veterinary Surgeons found who are Advanced Practitioners in Zoological Medicine - Find A Vet

You want to find a vet who is either in private clinical practice or, perhaps, working in a university. Some of these specialists are attached to a zoo and are not available to see private patients.

Given where you are, it may be worth contacting Liverpool University's Small Animal Teaching Hospital to see if they have anyone able to see an avian patient. They're a referral-only hospital meaning that you will have to be referred to them by another vet - they can't see you directly. If I recall correctly, Liverpool mostly focuses on surgery, orthopedics, soft tissue and internal medicine on mammals, but might be worth a shot. If nothing else, they might have a better idea of avian vets in the area. Some avian specialists work from quite small practices and they don't always advertise their services very well.
 
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greys4u

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@tka good advice
 
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Clueless

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@tka THANK YOU for providing that info to her.

Amazons have my heart and I'm hurting for them both.

I know how much it hurt me when the first vet I spoke to gave me high quotes. I didn't take my feathered dudes to her either.
 

amazon19

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Thank you all for your helpful advice! Sorry for the delayed reply, I've been tied down in work. I'm going to see if I can get a second opinion, it doesn't help living out in the country but I'll give it a go. A couple of vets I spoke to said they wouldn't see him but to try giving him vitamin supplements, I'm not sure if this will be of any benefit
 

greys4u

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Were they avian vets? Did they give a reason for the answer? Dont do anything (vitamins, etc) untill you get an answer and not a guess
 

Clueless

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Something just occurred to me. Birds are diagnosed with Vitamin A deficiency more than any other disease. DO NOT GVE HIM SUPPLEMENTAL VITAMINS. Make sure his diet is high in Orange vegetables - sweet potato or yams, carrots, spinach, squash, papaya, boiled eggs (no more than once a week), kale. Do not feed him any meat as it is very difficult for parrots to digest.

Butternut squash - Google Search
Read above about vitamins.

I trust this lady and she has reasons. Why does a vet say to give when they don't see the bird?
 

taxidermynerd

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A couple of vets I spoke to said they wouldn't see him but to try giving him vitamin supplements, I'm not sure if this will be of any benefit
To me that's a huge red flag. They don't even want to see you, but they do want you to spend money.

You need to find a good avian vet (a specialist who primarily or only sees birds) who will actually see you in person and perform a thorough exam. Anything less than that from an avian vet is unacceptable.

How do they know what to prescribe when they don't know what's going on with the patient? They don't.
 

tka

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Thank you all for your helpful advice! Sorry for the delayed reply, I've been tied down in work. I'm going to see if I can get a second opinion, it doesn't help living out in the country but I'll give it a go. A couple of vets I spoke to said they wouldn't see him but to try giving him vitamin supplements, I'm not sure if this will be of any benefit
Good luck! I have family in Rhyl and I did some biology fieldwork in Anglesey many years ago, so I know how hard it is to get to places. I think your parrot does need to actually see someone experienced with avian patients - he deserves better than someone who'll fob you off with vitamins without even examining him.
 

Hankmacaw

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@amazon19 Vitamins come in two types - water soluble and fat soluble. If you give a bird a vitamin supplement you must be sure that there are no fat soluble vitamins in the supplement. Fat soluble vitamins accululate in the cells and become toxic when over supplied. Water soluble vitamins ae not stored in the body and excess vitamins not needed by the body flush right on through.

Here is an article that tells you which vitamin belongs to which type and explains what vitamins do. A bird on a good varied diet with a base diet of a complete nutritional pellet will never have vitamin deficiencies nor vitamin toxicosis. I highly recommend that you take a close look at you bird's diet and make changes where necessary.

Potential Toxic Effects of  Vitamins When Given to Birds in Excess -
 

amazon19

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I think his diet is ok, he has access to pellets throughout the day and has fresh fruit and veg at breakfast and then at dinner.

Yes, there has been difficulty finding a vet, I phoned nine vets yesterday, some of which came up when I typed in 'avian vet' on Google and others were suggestions by the vets that I spoke to. Unsurprisingly, none of the vets said they were specialised, only 'had extensive experience with birds'. As soon as I mentioned he cannot be handled they refused to see him. Most flatly said no, one offered to put him down, which was the weirdest suggestion I've ever come across, one said they won't see him but come and get some vitamins. I got an appointment with one from a receptionist that told me the vet definitely was a parrot specialist, but when I phoned later in the day and spoke to the vet himself, he said he wouldn't handle the bird or take blood if he cannot be handled. This is the vet that told me it'll cost thousands to diagnose him and then chances are anything that is wrong wouldn't be treatable. The only other vet who showed an interest said they would look him over but not take bloods. I've phoned an exotic vet which is two hours away and they were rather vague on the phone and refused to give me a price for blood work. They said it was £70 for the appointment and blood work can be discussed there. I asked for a rough amount (hundreds, or thousands?) And they said no idea could be either.

I don't have any insurance as when Harley came to live with us he was displaying this behaviour straight away. When I tried to get insurance, they told me they will not cover any pre-existing condition.

It's a bit of a mess all round really.
 

tka

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I'm really sorry to hear about this. Suggesting that Harley should be put to sleep is outrageous! That's absolutely out of order.

Did you manage to have a look at the RCVS links I posted? Those should help you find someone who is a specialist. I think I would be inclined to contact Origin Vets - they work with zoo and wildlife collections so hopefully have more experience of dealing with parrots that cannot be handled. They're in South Wales so a bit of a trek for you and Harley, I'm afraid, but I think you're going to need someone who isn't a total plank!
 

Clueless

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Good grief, with that attitude, that vet would kill every animal at a zoo?????

Yeeeeesh.

Poor Harley and poor you.
 

Clueless

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I'm really sorry to hear about this. Suggesting that Harley should be put to sleep is outrageous! That's absolutely out of order.

Did you manage to have a look at the RCVS links I posted? Those should help you find someone who is a specialist. I think I would be inclined to contact Origin Vets - they work with zoo and wildlife collections so hopefully have more experience of dealing with parrots that cannot be handled. They're in South Wales so a bit of a trek for you and Harley, I'm afraid, but I think you're going to need someone who isn't a total plank!
Great term. In the rural area I grew up in, he would be called dumber than a box of rocks.
 

Clueless

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@SandraK your term for that idiot calling himself a vet?
 

SandraK

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Read above about vitamins.

I trust this lady and she has reasons. Why does a vet say to give when they don't see the bird?
Good question. The two avian vets I've taken my fids to won't give any advice over the phone unless they can't see the bird that day. Even then, they recommend the fid be taken to an ER if possible; then they suggest what you should do until you can get the fid to ER. And they re-enforce getting the fid to an avian ER.
 
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