Urgent Seizure?

[Begone2]

Hi. Earlier this evening, my one-year-old Illiger macaw appeared to have some kind of seizure. He had found (and was playing with) a tiny piece of broken glass, which I managed to remove from his beak. Immediately afterwards, he seemed to panic, started flying wildly around the room screaming, then fluttered to the floor with his eyes closed. When I lifted him, he was rigid, with both feet tightly clenched. He remained like that in my hands for what seemed like an eternity, but was probably just a few minutes. He slowly regained consciousness, recognised me, and sat in my hands, but wasn't his usual self. After a half hour, he regained some of his composure, and headed for his cage. He ate profusely, then drank a lot, ate more, drank more, repeating this three times - quite strange behaviour (for him). He stepped up again, climbed my arm, nuzzled into my chin and fell asleep. After an hour, I closed the blind in his room (the signal for him to fly up onto the curtain rail to settle down for the night), which he duly did. I started beating myself up, thinking perhaps he had split the fragment of glass and swallowed the other part , causing this reaction. I regularly check on him, and he is still fast asleep nestled down in the top of the curtain. Tomorrow I will make an appointment with our local avian vet (some 40 miles away), but wondered if anyone had suffered this experience?

 

[BeanieofJustice]

That's scary, I'm sorry he seems to be having an issue, I can't comment on whether or not that was a seizure but I'd try to take him to an emergency clinic, especially if you think he may have swallowed glass. I hope your baby is okay.

 

[Hawk12237]

I would think it's rather he swallowed some glass being in panic mode, unless the glass had some sort of toxic residue to birds on it.
Hard to comment on it without seeing it first hand but by all means have it checked by vet as an xray will show any glass the ma caw may have accidentally injested.
No I have not personally experienced that, but have had a bird mysteriously find a piece of glass which was immediately taken away.
As hard as we try to parrot proof our homes, you can come across something you over looked.

 

[Kodigirl210]

The indications are that he had a seizure. The rigidity and the unconsciousness tend to back it. Sometimes seizures are idiomatic and sometimes they are symptoms of ongoing issues.

When you go to the vet make sure they check his sugar levels. He might have overreacted to the glass in his beak and had his body shut down or it may have just coincided and whatever triggers seizures in him got the right stimulus.

Also, until you know if this is a one time thing, I would definitely keep him somewhere that is low to drop. If he has one on top of the curtain rod and just drops I imagine it’s quite a bit of a fall.

Definitely get him to a vet as soon as possible.

Sending positive thought and best wishes

 

[Begone2]

Thanks for your replies. Sultan had got progressively weaker, and noticeably clumsier. He couldn't perch properly and climbing was out of the question. We are lucky to have a good avian vet practice in Central Scotland, with lots of experience with hookbills. They realised the gravity of the situation by my description and admitted him right away. They didn't need to towel him -- he was quite cooperative right from the start. They gassed him, intubated him to maintain his breathing, took a series of x rays and blood samples, and attempted to flush out his crop. There were no obvious foreign bodies either in his crop or his gizzard (in the x rays or in what they could flush out), and everything seemed normal, visually. The initial blood results seemed normal, particularly calcium levels. These were analysed there and then, but more blood was sent off to receive more detailed scrutiny in a specialised lab, and we are still awaiting the results of those. Despite the intrusive nature of the exams, the bird did not appear fussed at all when he came round, and was quite friendly to the vets and nursing staff, which made quite an impression with them. I, on the other hand, was a complete wreck!

We were also given two different antibiotics, just in case he was suffering from some infection. I managed so far to administer them as prescribed, as I approach him first thing in the morning, and last thing at night when he is still sleepy.

The vet is still not sure if he actually ingested something that is poisoning him, or if it is in fact something cerebral. He did strip some lead from a glass window (now safely covered up), and even small amounts could linger in his innards and not show up on the x ray, but the advanced blood tests should give an indication if this is the case.

He seems to have recovered a bit in the last few days. He eats and drinks well, although he still has difficulty in balancing, perching and climbing. He doesn't have much strength in his feet at all, although he has resumed chewing his wooden toys. He gets around by flying, which doesn't seem to have been compromised. A real enigma. He has found his voice again, and spends most of his time looking for cuddles, head scratches, or is happy just to sit on me and rigourously preen his feathers. I really feared for the worst, but I realise we are not out of the woods yet. I will continue with updates.

 

[iamwhoiam]

Sorry that Sultan had a seizure or developed a neurological issue or ????. It's good that you have an excellent avian vet and also good that Sultan is recovering. My Bare-eyed 'too has a history of stress seizures but she usually comes out of those in about 30 mins. and is back to being herself. My red-bellied parrot Scully didn't have a seizure but was unable to maintain balance and perch and also had shaking/tremors. Vet did several tests but there was never a conclusive diagnosis. We were thinking it may have been a stroke or a head injury. He also would not eat or drink and had to be hand fed/tube fed and when he did start eating it was very limited. He's a lefty and holds food in his foot and that foot was the one that was most affected. It took about 2 weeks for him to start eating enough on his own again. This was back in 2016 and he is OK now. I've become a bit paranoid and overprotective of him, though. Every time I see him hanging upside down from the top of his cage I panic thinking he is going to fall. Took me a while to raise up some of the perches in his cage.

Hope that Sultan will recover 100%. Sending positive thoughts his way.

 

[Begone2]

Sorry that Sultan had a seizure or developed a neurological issue or ????. It's good that you have an excellent avian vet and also good that Sultan is recovering. My Bare-eyed 'too has a history of stress seizures but she usually comes out of those in about 30 mins. and is back to being herself. My red-bellied parrot Scully didn't have a seizure but was unable to maintain balance and perch and also had shaking/tremors. Vet did several tests but there was never a conclusive diagnosis. We were thinking it may have been a stroke or a head injury. He also would not eat or drink and had to be hand fed/tube fed and when he did start eating it was very limited. He's a lefty and holds food in his foot and that foot was the one that was most affected. It took about 2 weeks for him to start eating enough on his own again. This was back in 2016 and he is OK now. I've become a bit paranoid and overprotective of him, though. Every time I see him hanging upside down from the top of his cage I panic thinking he is going to fall. Took me a while to raise up some of the perches in his cage.

Hope that Sultan will recover 100%. Sending positive thoughts his way.

Thanks for that post. It is reassuring that other bird people have had similar experiences, and that there is no obvious cause. It is also heartening that the birds just keep going. Today he was a bit stronger, and took delight in exploring a new fenced-in space created for him on our balcony. He still can't climb properly, but that doesn't stop him trying. Ill or not, he just loves being outside. He enjoys flying, and is very agile in the air, however he sometimes exhibits erratic manoeuvers in mid flight. I had put it down to showing off, but it reminded me of tumbler pigeons, who take a kind of spasm in mid-air. This is apparently a genetic trait, which over time has evolved to allow them to escape predators. Maybe he has some kind of cerebral problem. Time will tell. For now, his behaviour seems to indicate that he is happy with his lot, and doesn't seem to be suffering. I just posted some photos taken in his new aviary in Shutterburg Street under the minimacaw thread.

 

[Kodigirl210]

Did you have a chance to read this thread. I know it’s not exactly the same but there are similar elements.

Urgent - Prayers needed... | Page 3 | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[Begone2]

Did you have a chance to read this thread. I know it’s not exactly the same but there are similar elements.

Urgent - Prayers needed... | Page 3 | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

Thanks - I'll have a read of it now.

 

[Begone2]

Because of the damage he had done to wooden items in our front room, I cleared out a back bedroom, and made it into a birdroom. It has less stuff for his beak. However, I bought a plastic sheet to put over the floor. This has small metal rings in it. They were quite soft. He took delight in pulling them out of the plastic and chewing them up. They ended up as sharp, little balls, a bit like metallic chewing gum. I quickly removed the rest, but this could be another possible cause. That thread showed that they can get poisoned without us knowing. He is a little devil. If he sees an object on the floor, he is there like a shot and its in his beak already. If you try and remove it (you will know), he hides it under his tongue, causing for risk of it being swallowed. I think rigorous floor cleaning is in order, and shoes left at the door in case any small foreign bodies are inadvertently brought into the house. Thanks again.

 

[Kodigirl210]

You’re very welcome. Some of the symptoms seemed the same. The weakness, loss of balance and ability to climb. Then bouncing back for a minute and then basically seizure again and needing care for a few days at the vet. I know they didn’t find anything as yet that can be pointed to and you may never know. The only thing you can be sure of, if he exhibits those symptoms again he needs to go to vet right away.

 

[iamwhoiam]

I hope that Sultan will continue to get stronger every day. It's good that you are checking around to make sure there is nothing dangerous/toxic that he can get into or ingest. Scully was tested for metal toxicity and that was negative. He was also x-rayed and nothing could be seen on the radiographs that was of any concern.

 

[Begone2]

Update on Sultan. The vet had taken some blood samples, which were sent off to a lab for analysis. The vet's report reads as follows:

"Ionised calcium is moderately decreased, which is most commonly due to inadequate dietary calcium and lack of access to an appropriate UVb light source. This could well be contributing to the clinical signs described.

However, there is also evidence of exposure to lead, which, at this level, and with the clinical history, is worth treating. AST and CK (not sure what he means there) will commonly increase following handling and blood sampling, or with other causes of skeletal muscle damage.

Repeat bloods to assess response to treatment are advisable."

The vet gave me medication which had to be given via a syringe twice a day, which bound up the lead in his system, and allowed it to be excreted. This course went on for some weeks. I was surprised at the calcium result - Sultan already had a fairly powerful UV light in his room from day 1, and Calcivet suppliment three times a week in his water. However I googled the UV and found it was a SAD lamp, suitable for human depression, but not for birds - which require a full spectrum bulb (preferably with reflector). I purchased the correct Avian UV bulb, increased the Calcivet, and administered the medication to the specified dose.

Sultan's climbing ability increased, and he can now shin up the metal legs of his swing - which for me was always the barometer of his health. For many weeks, he was unable to do this, although he tried on many occasions. Last week he succeeded, and was so pleased with himself that he flew round his aviary several times, like a lap of honour!

I took him back to the vet, who was very pleased with his progress, sufficiently so that he decided taking further blood samples were no longer necessary. Looks like we had a close escape. The lead in the kitchen (part of glass windows in a kitchen cabinet) have been covered up, and he is not allowed in there unsupervised. The weather here has now improved to the extent that we can spend most of the day outside in the aviary, so that he gets lots of natural UV, which I believe is much more beneficial than electric lamps. I am continuing to research ways of improving his diet, so that he gets enough calcium and can absorb it. We can never be complacent. I hope to give progress reports on Sultan in other, more appropriate threads. The "emergency" is over.

 

[Lady Jane]

Good for Sultan. It is truly good that he is getting natural sunshine because those bulbs are just about worthless.

 

[Milo]

My first thought with this was lead.

CK stands for creatine kinase which is a muscle enzyme that’s not specific, you see elevations in that for various reasons, including heart disease and things as simple as handling and injections. Not surprising at all to see that elevated considering the situation.

AST is a liver enzyme, I haven’t heard of that being elevated with handling, but if there is inflammation and high lead levels that’s not surprising either.

Hopefully the chelation and UV will do him some good!

 

[iamwhoiam]

It's good that they were able to determine what is going on with Sultan and create a treatment plan for him. I hope he will be 100% soon.
I was told that AST has been shown to be elevated when blood is taken from the nail as opposed to it being taken from the jugular.

 

[Milo]

It's good that they were able to determine what is going on with Sultan and create a treatment plan for him. I hope he will be 100% soon.
I was told that AST has been shown to be elevated when blood is taken from the nail as opposed to it being taken from the jugular.

I have heard that as well. Getting a blood sample from a nail is not only usually of poor diagnostic quality it is now largely considered inhumane due to unnecessary pain and stress on the animal. I am of the firm belief that if a vet is not comfortable performing venipuncture then they have no business seeing birds in their practice.

 

[Begone2]

Thanks for your most informative comments. I will continue to post updates.

 

[iamwhoiam]

I have heard that as well. Getting a blood sample from a nail is not only usually of poor diagnostic quality it is now largely considered inhumane due to unnecessary pain and stress on the animal. I am of the firm belief that if a vet is not comfortable performing venipuncture then they have no business seeing birds in their practice.

I had a bird die during jugular draw. The vet techs (or assistants) did the draw. Vet was in exam room with me. She blamed it on bird being stressed but if bird was stressed they shouldn't have done it and she at least should have been with the techs or assts. (I never found out and they were unfamiliar to me.) when they did the draw. It's a rare occurrence but it can happen and, suffice it to say, I am not comfortable with jugular draw.
The main issue of nail draw is that artifacts can be introduced into the sample although one study showed that the difference between the results of nail draw and venipuncture (jugular) were minimal.

 

[Karen]

My first thought with this was lead.

I was late reading this thread until an update was posted and it brought it up on my new posts list and as soon as I read the first post, I thought lead too. I had a bird with lead poisoning and had to give her two rounds of chelation treatments.

I am so glad to read that Sultan is beginning to feel better. I hope he continues to make big strides!