Seeds vs. Pellets...

[glowe]

Gogo is just not taking to the pellets. The breeder had him on a seed only diet. I'm trying to ease him in but he eats only the little bit of seed I put in with the pellets. I'm trying to wean him off the seed but nothing I so works. He also rarely touches any fruits or veggies I put out for him. What am I to do?

 

[msplantladi]

I reduced my potions by half and started with crushed pellets sprinkled over their food to get them used to the taste. ( I don't use colored pellets) Birds are more hungry in the morning so the success rate is higher when trying new things . When they are hungry there is also less waste. Here is a helpful link. Parrot Problem Solving 101| PPS101

 

[finchly]

Offer pellets different ways: crushed, mostened with water or apple juice. If you wet them use very warm water, for some reason they like warm food.

Try a different brand; TOPS is a favorite around here.

Mix in something yummy like hard boiled egg or nutriberries.

Do the same with veggies. Offer them differently - on a skewer, or the opposite chopped (and put a spoonful of pellets in there). Mixed or separate.

When i have birds that refuse seed I remove the seed and offer pellets for the first 30 min ( very small birds) to one hour for bigger birds. I might even do that a 2nd time later in the day. Eventually they’ll start eating them.

 

[glowe]

Thank you, thank you, thank you guys for all the ideas!!! I was getting so worried. I'll stay with your suggestions first thing tomorrow morning!!!

 

[taxidermynerd]

It took my Chirp 8 months to get him on pellets (read as: to convince him they weren't poison). It takes time, so don't beat yourself up too much. Read in the forum about food, there's a great thread (It's a sticky) by @Monica , I found it greatly useful in my own experience. Good luck!

 

[clawnz]

You are trying to force him to eat an unnatural item.
Never going to be easy.
Only birds weaned off to this so called food, like the manufactured so called food.

It makes laugh! When you see how readily birds take to Live Foods (sprouts).
And I come online reading about the amount of trouble people have trying to force them to eat, a dry food, that must be just about the most boring food item being offered.
Are birds smarter than their owners?

What type of bird are you looking after?

Oh Look my siggy is Sophie.
Her diet is sprout based and includes seed, fruit and veg. And Nuts.
You want to see what she was like on the fabricated diet, when I first got her.
Not to mention the behavior issues birds suffer from on these processed foods.

 

[glowe]

Clans my feathered friends is a lovebird. His name is GoGo. I've given broccoli, collards ( he did pick at those) apples, celery, all chopped, some of the collards i wrapped and stuck in a hanging toy. That he attempted to snack on. The pellets I just threw in a little with his seed but he wasn't having it. Are the seed, no pellet and no vegies. He lives millet though. I've been given tips by several other here on the list that were nice enough to share their knowledge with me so hopefully there will be some change soon.

 

[glowe]

Taxidermynerd, thanks for putting my mind at ease. I'd just like for my bird to live a long life and in very new to this and GoGo direct trust me at all... Won't let me near him yet and i guest everything combined just got me very worried. I've learned that patience truly is a virtue when it comes to our feathered friends sooo... Any and all advice is so very welcomed! Thank you again for your help.

 

[taxidermynerd]

Taxidermynerd, thanks for putting my mind at ease. I'd just like for my bird to live a long life and in very new to this and GoGo direct trust me at all... Won't let me near him yet and i guest everything combined just got me very worried. I've learned that patience truly is a virtue when it comes to our feathered friends sooo... Any and all advice is so very welcomed! Thank you again for your help.

Give him time, the day after my Chirp willingly tried them, he loves them. Now he'll try to climb in the jar I keep the pellets in if I don't close it! He did a total 360.

To us a few weeks seems like forever, but to a bird it's nothing! Patience is a virtue, for sure. I'm not that good at it! But I do try. And that's all you can ask really. Just keep at it! Best of luck!

 

[Monica]

I do not recommend removing seeds from his diet entirely, but here's the threads taxidermynerd mentioned.

Converting Parrots to a Healthier Diet - Tips | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
Bird Safe Fresh Foods & Toxic Food Lists & More | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[glowe]

Thanks you guys. You're really helping me be more at ease because I was so worried.

 

[clawnz]

Remember birds do not eat stale food. Which has been heat treated and so much goodness including enzymes destroyed.
Not to mention some very suspect ingredients.
From colours, salt, sugar, man made supplements.

They eat fresh foods in the wild. So why do so many think they will thrive on fabricated foods?
At least the fresh food fraternity is gaining momentum.
With more and more people talking about how much better their birds have become once fabricated foods have been removed from their diet.

Sprouts are live foods when you are sprouting your own.
And birds thrive on them.
And should be a base for all bird diets.
Even the Lorikeets I have dealt with eat them.

I have this thread on all things sprouting.
Sprouting Easy or Complicated? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[glowe]

Thanks so much for your input. I have been doing some research on sprouts. This can only help.

 

[painesgrey]

They eat fresh foods in the wild. So why do so many think they will thrive on fabricated foods?

This is a fallacy. Natural does not always make something better, and unnatural things are not always worse than their natural counterparts.

What we want for our birds is often vastly different from what Nature wants from our birds. Birds in the wild eat diets higher in calories and fat because they are far, far more active than their captive cousins. Not only this, but wild birds are nesting, breeding, and foraging for food - all of which put a strain on their bodies that are not always conducive to a long lifespan.

So if you want your bird to live a fraction of its potential captive lifespan in the name of feeding it what you think is "natural", then a seed and fresh food-only diet will probably work for you. However, be prepared for ridiculous vet bills and a lot of misery down the line when your bird is suffering from liver failure and other diseases associated with long-term nutritional deficiencies.

Just my two cents.

 

[Monica]

If you do it right, a fresh food based diet is *very* healthy for birds because it's nutrient dense and contains a lot of liquid. Pellets are extremely dry and can cause their own health issues.


When it comes to diet, there really is no "right or wrong" but there are better methods. I wont say that there is one that is better than all others as long as the birds are receiving the foods that they require in order to stay healthy.


I lost one bird last year due to liver failure.... she was on a seed, pellet and fresh food diet. No clue on age, since she had at least 3 homes prior to me, and the 2nd one bought her at a garage/yard sale... so what is known for a fact is that she was an "older" bird. She was probably fed only seeds her entire life up until the point of coming to me, and she was with me for several years.

 

[painesgrey]

If you do it right, a fresh food based diet is *very* healthy for birds because it's nutrient dense and contains a lot of liquid.

Emphasis mine. There are a lot of well-meaning parrot owners that think that they're providing their birds with a better diet, but are not taking into account sources of macronutrients, things like phosphorous:calcium ratios, and other tedious but necessary calculations that make a diet nutritionally complete.

I think raw and natural diets are great when done under the supervision of a veterinary nutritionist. However, the vast majority of people aren't going to consult a nutritionist, and are going to try to wing it using Dr. Google and other resources. While this may be well-intentioned, it doesn't really necessitate a better outcome for the birds.

 

[clawnz]

Poor diets do include pellets.
YES! Even on pellets they can get Fatty Liver disease.

Pellets are known to cause issues.
Not to mention the issues when trying to rid the birds body of overloading.
Not to mention all the things in them that are not good.
All this puts more strain on kidneys.
Where are your birds getting B12, if from pellets then you need to do some home work. As the manufactured B12 is close to a waste of time.

Sure an all seed diet or stale dead seed diet is any good.

You are NEVER going to beat a good fresh wide variety diet.
READ Enzymes. Or lack of them if you limit diet.

Birds that are on decent real food diets are more prone to be willing to try new foods.
How many examples would you like?

 

[painesgrey]

You're citing examples of things but not providing sources for any of that information.

Pellets are known to cause issues.

What issues?

Not to mention the issues when trying to rid the birds body of overloading.

What?

Not to mention all the things in them that are not good.

Like what, specifically?

All this puts more strain on kidneys.

From here:
Q: I have heard that processed foods cause kidney disease in birds. Is this true?
A: There are many misconceptions about this issue in birds. Tom Roudybush participated in a study at UC Davis in 2000/2001 in which normal grey cockatiels were fed diets with up to 70% protein for one year. No clinical signs of kidney disease were seen. The kidneys were examined microscopically at the end of the experiment and no significant abnormalities were found. Toxic levels of Calcium and Vitamin D3 may cause kidney damage, and kidney problems may be an inherited defect being bred into lines of color mutation birds. Until more information is available in psittacines, Roudybush, Inc. advises bird owners and breeders to exercise common sense and feed their birds diets that lie within safe ranges (safe from both deficiency and toxicity) based on research performed in any avian species studied so far, including poultry. Don’t feed your birds a deficient diet in order to protect the few birds that might have an underlying kidney malfunction.

Unless you have a scientific study that links pelleted diets directly with kidney issues, birds that suffer from kidney disease while on a pelleted diet could easily have a genetic predisposition to the disease. That doesn't mean that the diet is a direct cause of it.

Where are your birds getting B12, if from pellets then you need to do some home work. As the manufactured B12 is close to a waste of time.

Where are you getting this information? B12 is readily synthesized and fortified into foods for both parrots and humans alike. Do you have some source that proves synthesized b12 is inferior?

Anyone can say anything on the internet. Unless you provide sources to back up your claims, it's all just hot air in my opinion.

 

[Monica]

Agreed that many people think that they are doing right by their birds while caring for them very poorly. I don't feel like pellets are an "end all" answer here at all, but could indeed be used as part of a healthy diet.

Veterinary nutritionists.... not sure how many are actually out there. Many vets are taught that pellets are a healthy diet and that you can't provide a healthy, fresh food based diet to your birds... and yet, people do it... and have birds who test healthy, year after year, with no nutritional deficiencies. I'd personally love to remove pellets out of my birds' diets, but I don't feel comfortable removing them at this time, so I'll continue to feed. Perhaps that will change some day. I'm glad that at least my conure, who's *always* been picky about eating fresh foods (he'd eat them, but not very much, or eat them disdainfully), all of a sudden now looks forward to eating them?!?!? I've had him for nearly 12 years (aka half his life) and only within the past year has he taken a bigger interest in fresh food.

 

[clawnz]

Why?
I don't have to quote source, is because I learned long ago to feed real foods.
I have seen so many birds come back to excellent condition, just by removing the rubbish vets promote.
If you care you can find what we did with Marshall (Eclectus) in just 5weeks.
That was well documented and proves beyond any doubt that real foods WORK.
Another was 2x Eclectus who showed signs of Staphylococci on their first test, when they came in.
Cleared after 10days of real foods, only.
You people who think you need a science degree are so over the top.
NO YOU DO NOT need that.
I did my research and will never feed pellets. WHY!
Simply because all the birds I deal with test ok. Or as everybody says.
Wow your birds look so good.