Screaming BW pionus baby...

[camelotshadow]

It ssems some have been told about excessive screaming in feeding weaning birds.

I've been with a breeder for hours before & after feeding & f birds from green cheeks, tiels IRN & eclectus & never has it been .excessive.

I agree that from the vids he is communicating & you are answering all the calls so he is doing it more & more.

I think he thinks you like it. This may be loud but its not screaming its communicating in a begging mode.

Birds think when you react to a sound or action its good as they have your attention. They don't understand why someone would give attention or talk to them when they did something or screamed except to think...Wow...it got me attention so I'll do it again.

If you don't like a sound the best thing is to ignore it. If it stops you from moving etc... its been reinforced & he has his reward.

My only concern is he had crop or intestinal or some discomfort but otherwise you are going to have to watch him quietly & only respond with voice or body actions to nice sounds or quiet sounds & good behavior. TAt this point & in most times in a birds life No means yes..

 

[camelotshadow]

I'd speak to the vet. Tell him or her whats going on & you are concerned that it could be discomfort & you want to know what tests could be done to help ease your mind that the bird is OK...You already paid for a well bird visit but at this point I think it warrants getting a test or two so you know your bird is not suffering from a bacterial or some sickness.

All bird choose a high spot as it is more safe & the bird is new so thats normal behavior.

I'm concerned there are not some underlying problems & that is why this bird is not eating unless syringe fed.

 

[tka]

I don't think this is motivated simply by the bird wanting attention and trying to get you to respond.

My gut feeling is that this baby is younger than twelve weeks. The beak is still dark and there's just a very babyish look to the head and eyes. With your permission, I'd like to send those videos to a Pionus Breeders facebook group and see if any of the people who are more experienced can advise on age. My feeling is that this is a bird who seems very young, and hasn't been properly weaned. Even if he was picking at food independently, it's like a one year old child eating solids. They're getting some of their nutrition from solid food, but a substantial part of their diet is still milk (for a human child) or crop milk/formula (for a chick).

I would definitely go to the vet and ask for tests. You need to know if you're dealing with crop issues, a fungal infection or anything that could hinder digestion and absorption of nutrients.

Unless you think the breeder is unethical or shady, I would also contact them and ask their advice.

 

[rookspook]

GREAT NEWS! I

I just put the baby down (haha) under his blanket, since he was making a fuss again, after his evening feeding...

BUT HES EATING SOLIDS UNDERNEATH THIS BLANKET NOW!

I can hear him messing about with the bowls and crunching on stuff. I am so happy and proud I could cry omigosh...

If you don't like a sound the best thing is to ignore it. If it stops you from moving etc... its been reinforced & he has his reward.

What you said really snapped into place in my head. I realised I was still giving him attention by tip toeing around him and freezing up and stuff. That's not ignoring.

Maybe all he needed was just for me to stop treating him like a baby... I could smack myself honestly.

I spent the day ignoring any and ALL baby cries. Which was hell, not gonna lie... and fed him more often, about every two hours. Also switched formula because I ran out of the stuff I got from the breeder. Maybe it's less tasty? Or more tasty? I don't even know...

All I know is that I can hear my baby trying to peel a sunflower seed and I'm so happy

 

[javi]

Pi's are my favorite. However they are notorious for being hard to wean. The only one of mine that I handfed did not wean til she was about 6 months. She was eating on her own but begged for formula. At 6 months I said enough is enough and cut back to once a day from the 2 times a day and made she was still eating and maintaining weight until I could stop altogether. Even now at 8 years (almost 9) she will start begging if I get out a syringe or make formula. When speaking to breeder friends they all say a pi will take handfeeding forever. I am not shocked your baby regressed esp at 12 weeks. You just have to keep hand feeding and hope she starts eating more and more. Oh and daily weight checks.

 

[Begone]

However they are notorious for being hard to wean.

I have never heard or experience that.
I will say that it is the opposite. They are very independent even as babies.
Akela and Eloy wean themselves at age 11 weeks, and Eliy at 12 weeks. No regression.
And none have wanted to be hand-feed at older age.
If they are hard to wean something must have happen.
I have had 3, and a friend of mine is a breeder for Maxis, BW, BH and WC.

 

[Begone]

I don't think this is motivated simply by the bird wanting attention and trying to get you to respond.

No I don't think so either. They beg for a reason, and that sound is not for communication either.

My feeling is that this is a bird who seems very young, and hasn't been properly weaned.

Yes, agree. That will explain everything.

 

[camelotshadow]

I'll say hello to my bw breeder & get her opinion if the bird is younger..The babw I was interested in took 4+ months to wean & you can never know who will take longer to wean.

Good news but messing with seeds they will do that at 6 or 8 weeks too. Its a positive sign but important to weigh every day. Still need to be sure there are no health problems.

Since the bird already saw a vet it you should update them & they might do a test of the crop.

I'd call the vet & get there opinion.

As for behavior
Think of it this way...if you are walking away & the bird calls & you stop then he thinks he made you do that...you don't have to say a word to reinforce a behavior...

 

[javi]

That is strange, most of the breeders I have spoken to talk about how long it takes to wean them. They have all said how the bird will just keep wanting formula, even when they eat on their own. I didn't mind it with Mattie as she was an easy feeder. Of course all birds are individuals and cannot be grouped into any generalizations. Heehee

 

[camelotshadow]

This is the advice from a bronze wing breeder who no longer breeds or has the pair...

The baby in video does look young. In my opinion (and that’s exactly what it is) the baby wasn’t completely weaned…..or was just newly weaned when it was sold. Yes, they regress when that happens. Not only does it find itself in a new environment but it’s also away from its siblings and anything it’s familiar with. I found the BWs (especially the males) took much longer to wean than the females. If they weren’t given the time they needed it resulted in the behavior shown in the video.

Have the person continue with the hand feeding. Introduce new foods even if it doesn’t eat it yet. Have her eat the food in front of the baby and then offer a small piece to the baby. It probably won’t at first but it’s important to keep trying.



I know how the person is feeling. It’s extremely frustrating to hear a baby cry and not know what to do for it. Have her purchase a pair of ear plugs (yes, I’m serious) so it doesn’t drive her bonkers. Continue sitting with the baby and trying to get it to engage with small toys and new rooms etc. If the crying/talking is going on for hours at a time it really can get on your nerves. When that happens you naturally start to get tense. The baby will pick up on that and it just makes it worse. I used a small plastic cat/dog carrier for my babies to play in. They would go in and out to explore and often would nap in it. Since I shipped babies I wanted them to be familiar with the carrier way beforehand. She can put a small perch in it if she likes. She might also allow the baby to use it as a sleep cage if it seems to feel more secure in it.



There were times when I would wrap them in a baby receiving blanket and talk or sing to them (while wearing my ear plugs). It would eventually sooth them and they would fall asleep.



To keep from the baby from grating on my nerves I would act as though they were just “talking” or “singing” to me and I would join in. That way I could be more calm and in return it seemed to calm the baby.



I wish her luck. It will probably go on for a while but it does get better.



As long as the crop is empting out after each feeding it’s probably okay. If not, then she should definitely get it checked. Suggest they weigh the baby every morning BEFORE feeding it and keep track of the weights. If it seems to be losing then again, it needs to be checked. When it begins to wean and try new foods it may start refusing a feeding here and there or will eat less at each feeding. At that time it will naturally lose a little weight as it’s preparing to fly.

Weigh each day before feeding & make sure the crop empties...

 

[rookspook]

Thank you so much for this @camelotshadow
Makes me feel very reassured after reading that. I will keep to your breeders advice. My own breeder didn't really have much advice, like I said before she doesn't usually handrear, except to keep on like I have been. She did feel a bit guilty though.

Meanwhile we had our morning weigh in, 208gr, and feeding. The crop is empty every morning, yesterday I did feed when it wasn't really empty yet because I was feeding every two hours in smaller amounts. There were quite a few seedpeelings in the cage. So he really had been testing his foods.

He seems... More quiet this morning. Thank goodness. He still begs all the time but I haven't heard the screaming as of yet. When he's begging really softly I'm talking back to him softly now, sometimes this still sets him off a bit. But I just ignore the louder calls.

After a week desperation I am finally feeling like things are improving slowly. It's such a relief on my part (and I'm sure for the baby too)

 

[BeachComberNC]

Awww I think he is scared, lonely, and anxious to say the least having left his bird friends and brought to this new place. Does it scream when you away?? Do you have it in a place it can watch people in the house and see you getting along in your day-to day routine??

 

[tka]

@rookspook how is your little one today? Is he still making the same sounds?

 

[rookspook]

I was planning to write you guys a full update tomorrow

I am getting ready for bed, so have to keep this short. But the baby has improved so so much! I am amazed what a difference it is with just a couple of days

He's basically stopped the screaming, still begs, but that's completely fine because begging at a soft volume is just darn cute. He's making different noises now too, soft whistles and purring and krrrks... So adorable.

I really think feeding every two hours has made the most difference. Sometimes he refuses after just a taste, but he seems to really need me to offer. He's tasting other foods more and more... I think I tossed out more formula today than I actually fed him because he refused to eat it! Too busy with other baby bird stuff xD

I'll weigh him tomorrow morning (kinda forgot today, had the food in him before I had time to register I'd forgotten something... oops) and let you guys know how he's doing

Edit to say... That wasn't short at ALL xDD

 

[Dona]

Such great news!

 

[camelotshadow]

 

[tka]

That's wonderful to hear! The sounds you describe - whistles, purring, krrrrks - sound like normal BW noises to me. BWs make a lot of beeps, clucks, chuckles etc - one of Leia's most frequent noises is a two tone eeh-eeh which seems to be her inquirying, curious or general running commentary noise.

What youre doing is called abundance weaning. He's never forced to eat foods he isn't willing to try because he knows that formula will be offered even if he's not going to eat it. It makes them more secure and confident because they know they won't ever go hungry.

 

[rookspook]

Good morning everyone! The promised update

The baby completely refused his morning feeding today. Flying around the room was much more exciting than the syringe haha! He changed his mind after an hour, so I guess starting tomorrow I'll start offering the first feeding an hour after waking him up.

He weighed in at 228 before feeding! I'm thinking he may have been "hungry" for a while seeing as he's putting on this much weight in a short time. (It's not too much is it?)

one of Leia's most frequent noises is a two tone eeh-eeh which seems to be her inquirying, curious or general running commentary noise.

Mine had been doing that! Especially when I've left the room or when I'm messing around/cleaning... Guess he thinks I'm being weird xD

He's been playing with plastic cat toys with bells in them, carrying it around his cage and throwing it around. He also started to "break" stuff. Chewing on things and keeping himself busy.

He doesn't really seek me out yet besides feeding and calling out at me, so I'm hoping he warms up some more. But for now I'm giving him time and letting him so his thing. I figure he'll start wanting to hang out with me more in time. He did seem to enjoy a short headscratch after a crash landing this morning, but only for a little bit

I've tried to take some pictures but he's just moving around so much I didn't get any real "instagram" worthy pics but they'll do haha!


Pretty sure he was judging me...


He's crash landed and got a floor fluff souvenir stuck to his face xD


Not sure we really like the floor though...


Being perched is much much better

 

[camelotshadow]

 

[tka]

228g sounds like a reasonable weight. Babies' weights tend to fluctuate a bit around this time as they wean and gain muscle. As long as he's relatively stable and not gaining or losing significant amounts of weight, I wouldn't worry too much.

In his photos he definitely looks like a baby. I don't think he's nearly old enough to be fully weaned as the breeder claimed he was. I suspect he's was at the stage of eating on his own but still needing formula to be offered which is exactly where he is with you. Well done for getting that back on track!

Toy-wise, Pionus have soft beaks for their size and most prefer their toys to be easily shreddable. Balsa, cardboard, paper, pine or basswood cut across the grain, palm are all popular here. They won't bother with harder woods.