Pros and Cons of clipping wings

[XstatyK]

No, nothing to do with translation , veterinarians differentiate between amputation and clipping, the are speaking of three different methods , clipping being the third method but still agree that is causes harm to the bird. Regarding cats and dogs, you cannot declaw your cat in Germany , you can't dock a dogs tail or ears etc. Because they are protected by the law.

When she said "I don´t know anyone to clip his dogs or cats feet to keep it from running away!"
I don't think she meant nail declaw, it seems like she interpreted clipping to be cutting flesh.

Reason:
We know trimming a birds wings can slow or stop a birds flight
Trimming a dog or cats feet will not stop it from running.
But if you amputate the feet they will stop running.

Perhaps I was wrong on the interpretation reasoning, but it seems a possibility.
Until we can prove that it is illegal in Germany to trim the wings, misinterpretation would look like the best sensible explanation for this rumor.
But to be honest, that can't be proven either so I'll drop that topic on misinterpretation.

 

[Lady Jane]

The title of this thread is pros and cons of cutting flight feathers . Seems like that has been done. The legalities of cutting a birds feathers should have been in another separate thread.

The vast majority of bird people do not mutilate flight feathers because the birds environment is made safe for flight so there are no injuries or flying outside. My budgies flights were cut by the breeder after I asked him not to. They take almost one year to grow back. Everything in their world is controlled by me because they cannot fly. Flight muscles are weak, appetite could be better and self confidence has yet to surface. Once they are flying they will be happy budgies.

The link I previously posted is a very good read that was poo pooed. I hope everyone reads it.

 

[Pipsqueak]

When she said "I don´t know anyone to clip his dogs or cats feet to keep it from running away!"
I don't think she meant nail declaw, it seems like she interpreted clipping to be cutting flesh.

Reason:
We know trimming a birds wings can slow or stop a birds flight
Trimming a dog or cats feet will not stop it from running.
But if you amputate the feet they will stop running.

Perhaps I was wrong on the interpretation reasoning, but it seems a possibility.
Until we can prove that it is illegal in Germany to trim the wings, misinterpretation would look like the best sensible explanation for this rumor.
But to be honest, that can't be proven either so I'll drop that topic on misinterpretation.

I posted the animal protection law for you but you seem to have a misunderstanding how laws are written. And if you have ever followed court cases you could see that laws are interpreted all the time. The law protects all animals, there is no such thing as an animal specific law, you would have to look up case files were the law has been used and how it was interpreted in that case. I seriously don't understand what your obsession with the law on this is, isn't it more interesting to look into an animals welfare and common sense. What difference does it make to the argument that the health and wellbeing of a bird is compromised by clipping its wings if it is illegal in Germany or not ? My mentioning of the declawing and docking was because this is also being illegal in Germany according to the law since it causes harm to the animal, it is not necessary to mention that specifically since that is covered under article 1 of the law.

 

[XstatyK]

I posted the animal protection law for you but you seem to have a misunderstanding how laws are written. And if you have ever followed court cases you could see that laws are interpreted all the time. The law protects all animals, there is no such thing as an animal specific law, you would have to look up case files were the law has been used and how it was interpreted in that case.

I am trying to find out if it can be proven or disproven just as we did with Sweden. It is not illegal in Sweden. ( I stated the reasoning for finding out the truth here in this thread)
If we want to just go by the link you provided previously then we can easily interpret that it is not illegal as you also mentioned.

I was just reading about the regulations in Germany. The trim is not illegal but the animal protection law states that you can be punished if the trim leads to harm / health issues in the bird.

I seriously don't understand what your obsession with the law on this is, isn't it more interesting to look into an animals welfare and common sense.

To answer again on the "obsession" it is merely seeking the truth over a statement I myself have read time and time again, but to this day, have yet to read a valid source that it is illegal to trim the birds wing.
In fact, it seems we have proven the opposite, it is Legal.
I take my little birds well being into account greatly. I've only had the bird's wings trimmed once, and it was done by the Vet. Sure I probably could have attempted it myself, but I didn't want any mistakes or accidents, so I took him to the vet.

What difference does it make to the argument that the health and well being of a bird is compromised by clipping its wings if it is illegal in Germany or not ?

The difference is that the very statement that it "is illegal in Germany" or "is illegal in Sweden" or "Is illegal in other countries" is commonly used but I have yet to see anything at all to back up these claims.
So I'd simply like to know the truth on what I believe is a myth that is commonly used now and even years ago.
Surely there is no harm in wanting to know the truth.

My mentioning of the declawing and docking was because this is also being illegal in Germany according to the law since it causes harm to the animal, it is not necessary to mention that specifically since that is covered under article 1 of the law.

I was agreeing with you with our conversation and to be honest not sure what you mean here.
But yes I understand that declawing and docking (ears and tails) could be against the law in Germany.
Maybe the confusion is that I was just saying perhaps the interpretations from English to German might have been the initial cause of the widly spoken but not proven statements on trimming in other countries.
Just to clarify, I also mentioned that my "interpretations" statement can not be proven so I have dropped it because I'm just trying to find the truth, not cause another rumor.

Anyway, no ill will my friend
Cheers!
:dance3:

 

[Pipsqueak]

I am trying to find out if it can be proven or disproven just as we did with Sweden. It is not illegal in Sweden. ( I stated the reasoning for finding out the truth here in this thread)
If we want to just go by the link you provided previously then we can easily interpret that it is not illegal as you also mentioned.



To answer again on the "obsession" it is merely seeking the truth over a statement I myself have read time and time again, but to this day, have yet to read a valid source that it is illegal to trim the birds wing.
In fact, it seems we have proven the opposite, it is Legal.
I take my little birds well being into account greatly. I've only had the bird's wings trimmed once, and it was done by the Vet. Sure I probably could have attempted it myself, but I didn't want any mistakes or accidents, so I took him to the vet.


The difference is that the very statement that it "is illegal in Germany" or "is illegal in Sweden" or "Is illegal in other countries" is commonly used but I have yet to see anything at all to back up these claims.
So I'd simply like to know the truth on what I believe is a myth that is commonly used now and even years ago.
Surely there is no harm in wanting to know the truth.


I was agreeing with you with our conversation and to be honest not sure what you mean here.
But yes I understand that declawing and docking (ears and tails) could be against the law in Germany.
Maybe the confusion is that I was just saying perhaps the interpretations from English to German might have been the initial cause of the widly spoken but not proven statements on trimming in other countries.
Just to clarify, I also mentioned that my "interpretations" statement can not be proven so I have dropped it because I'm just trying to find the truth, not cause another rumor.

Anyway, no ill will my friend
Cheers!
:dance3:

Read the law. If you clip your birds wings in Germany and it leads to obesity or any other health matter according to a veterinarian you would have caused harm to your bird and that is against the law . I seriously question if you understand how laws work. It has nothing to do with translation, I posted the text in English, please do your own research. As mentioned before your concern should be about the birds well being . Read article 2 of the law and tell me how you interpret it , make your case

 

[XstatyK]

Read the law. If you clip your birds wings in Germany and it leads to obesity or any other health matter according to a veterinarian you would have caused harm to your bird and that is against the law . I seriously question if you understand how laws work. It has nothing to do with translation, I posted the text in English, please do your own research. As mentioned before your concern should be about the birds well being . Read article 2 of the law and tell me how you interpret it , make your case

Not sure you actually understand the word "illegal"
If it's illegal then you never do it to it to begin with.
Also laws are not written by veterinarians

I was just reading about the regulations in Germany. The trim is not illegal but the animal protection law states that you can be punished if the trim leads to harm / health issues in the bird.

Here you are reading "regulations" and just in case you are not informed, regulations are not law.
But to go by your own words "The trim is not illegal", I think you are essentially now arguing with your own words.

So we know that it is not illegal in Sweden. Yay!
Now we are trying to determine if it's illegal in Germany.

That is unless by your own statement from a regulation you read that it is not illegal to trim should be taken as law, then case closed?

 

[Pipsqueak]

Not sure you actually understand the word "illegal"
If it's illegal then you never do it to it to begin with.
Also laws are not written by veterinarians

I give up. I posted the law text for you. Please read. The veterinarian would be necessary to prove correlation between the clipping and the injury/ health problem/ harm. I never said that laws are written by veterinarians, don't know where you got this from.

Here you are reading "regulations" and just in case you are not informed, regulations are not law.
But to go by your own words "The trim is not illegal", I think you are essentially now arguing with your own words.

Harming your animal is illegal. I posted the link to the law and posted article 1 and 2 , not regulations.

So we know that it is not illegal in Sweden. Yay!
Now we are trying to determine if it's illegal in Germany.

You are trying something, what I am not sure about

That is unless by your own statement from a regulation you read that it is not illegal to trim should be taken as law, then case closed?

???? AGAIN I POSTED ARTICLE 1 and 2 FROM THE LAW WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ?

 

[XstatyK]

???? AGAIN I POSTED ARTICLE 1 and 2 FROM THE LAW WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ?

The part where you had mentioned it was "not illegal" but are also saying it is illegal if the bird gets harmed.
If it's illegal, its against the law and should not be done ever.
Are we just making up laws here as we go along?