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Pros and Cons of clipping wings

Did you get your bird's wings clipped?


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Love My Zons

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I am against clipping. I am also not a fan of birds going outside even with a harness. Birds can go outside, secured in a travel cage or larger. This is just me, but there is no reason in the world for ME to take a bird out in Person around People they don't know. 1) the stress of new surrounding and noise 2) the general risk of being outdoors in Public places risk of injury

I guess there is a reason why I don't take my dogs out in public either or dog parks. Risk of injury or disease etc. etc. they are better off safe at home in their large fenced in yard.

Flight is very important for health, burns calories and allows oxygen to travel through their bodies. If you do decide to live with flighted birds, do diligence towards their overall safety and knowing where they are at all times with doors opening and closing.
 

Laurie

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Hi Noah, it is nice to have you here and you ask a great question. I suspect there are many who clip but don't want to comment because this group tends to be very anti-clipping. But I assure you that this is with good reason.

You wanted to know why people don't clip? Well there is very little benefit to doing it.

It may make life easy for you but it makes life worse for your bird. A clipped bird can still fly when startled or picked up by a gust of wind so a cautious bird owner would not take him outside without a harness or cage.

If a bird wishes to leave the company of a person and clipping prevents him, he is not really learning to be social. He is being forced to stay in a situation he wishes to leave.

Birds with clipped wings are more prone to injuries from other animals or falling. Most birds acquire skill in flight and do not crash into things. Maybe not a pro/con just a trade.

Training a flighted bird is really not harder than training a clipped bird just different.

Besides, if a clipped bird sits on your shoulder or stays with you only because he can not fly away, is he really trained to stay? If a clipped bird enters it's cage only because he can not escape, is he trained to go in? When a flighted bird comes when called, flies over of his own accord or calmly enters its cage or carrier when asked then that is training. Perhaps and argument can be made for easier handling but not easier training.

I used to clip wings but over time I came to appreciate the benefits of not clipping. While it mostly benefits the birds I find I am much more satisfied with it as well :)

I hope I can help you change your mind :D
 

fluffypoptarts

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BeeBop

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I clip. But I don't agree with your pro con list. Your pro list seems highly for the advantage of the owner which shouldn't be the main reason. Your reasons to clip IMO are not sound. I don't want to make you feel I'm attacking you because you've had a fair amount of disagreement. I do think there is in some cases reason to clip. We shouldn't treat it like we are condemning them from a good life because all properly done clips grow back out and there is always the option to decide which is better for your bird. Note I said better for the bird not better for you.

I clip for safety reasons. Don't get me wrong I have tried and I will try every single time his wings grow out to let him fly. But it's dangerous for my bird. We had him get out once, and that's a scary thing that sticks with you. He is a happy bird. You can't convince me he's not, especially without living with him. And I don't have the ability to change everything in my life house and routine just so he can fly down a hallway. Again I will always have the option open to let him fly when it's safe. My dream is to have an aviary so I don't have to worry about anything.
 

theocnoob

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I clip. But I don't agree with your pro con list. Your pro list seems highly for the advantage of the owner which shouldn't be the main reason. Your reasons to clip IMO are not sound. I don't want to make you feel I'm attacking you because you've had a fair amount of disagreement. I do think there is in some cases reason to clip. We shouldn't treat it like we are condemning them from a good life because all properly done clips grow back out and there is always the option to decide which is better for your bird. Note I said better for the bird not better for you.

I clip for safety reasons. Don't get me wrong I have tried and I will try every single time his wings grow out to let him fly. But it's dangerous for my bird. We had him get out once, and that's a scary thing that sticks with you. He is a happy bird. You can't convince me he's not, especially without living with him. And I don't have the ability to change everything in my life house and routine just so he can fly down a hallway. Again I will always have the option open to let him fly when it's safe. My dream is to have an aviary so I don't have to worry about anything.
I respectfully disagree with everything you said there.

I do not clip George's wings. I never have, and I never will. He is going through a moderate moult right now and has three partially grown flight feathers on his right wing so he can only fly 3 or 4 feet now. He is noticeably upset about this and relies on me to get from place to place in the condo. I look forward to when he can be happy and fully mobile with his new feathers fully grown in and he can get past what has noticeably been an upsetting experience for him.

You say you won't rearrange your life so that your bird can be flighted. That's not right IMO (*and I say this respectfully but I want to voice my opinion). When one of us wants to go out on the balcony, if George is out, the other person takes George to another room where he can not come out. The door is open for 2 seconds max. When that person wants to come back in, we knock on the door and wait for the other person to remove George from the room.

If there is only one person home we make sure George is in a safe place before opening the door.

I was encouraged to see a 0/20/2 score on the survey with 20 people saying they don't clip but I have a feeling that clippers have chosen not to respond to the survey as non clippers are very passionate about being non clippers and arguments can erupt.

When we lived in a house and had just gotten George, my mom, who was still adapting to having a parrot, left the door open and george flew into the back yard (this is 8 1/2 years ago when he was 6 months old). He landed in a small tree and started saying "Whatcha doin? Whatcha doin?" which in his limited vocabulary I took as "Where the hell am I?". I ran out and got him and he was only too happy to come back inside. That was the only accident and I'm glad I wasn't the one at fault. We are very used to George now and no other accident has happened in over eight years.
 
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BeeBop

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I respectfully disagree with everything you said there.

I do not clip George's wings. I never have, and I never will. He is going through a moderate moult right now and has three partially grown flight feathers on his right wing so he can only fly 3 or 4 feet now. He is noticeably upset about this and relies on me to get from place to place in the condo. I look forward to when he can be happy and fully mobile with his new feathers fully grown in and he can get past what has noticeably been an upsetting experience for him.

You say you won't rearrange your life so that your bird can be flighted. That's not right IMO (*and I say this respectfully but I want to voice my opinion). When one of us wants to go out on the balcony, if George is out, the other person takes George to another room where he can not come out. The door is open for 2 seconds max. When that person wants to come back in, we knock on the door and wait for the other person to remove George from the room.

If there is only one person home we make sure George is in a safe place before opening the door.

I was encouraged to see a 0/20/2 score on the survey with 20 people saying they don't clip but I have a feeling that clippers have chosen not to respond to the survey as non clippers are very passionate about being non clippers and arguments can erupt.

When we lived in a house and had just gotten George, my mom, who was still adapting to having a parrot, left the door open and george flew into the back yard (this is 8 1/2 years ago when he was 6 months old). He landed in a small tree and started saying "Whatcha doin? Whatcha doin?" which in his limited vocabulary I took as "Where the hell am I?". I ran out and got him and he was only too happy to come back inside. That was the only accident and I'm glad I wasn't the one at fault. We are very used to George now and no other accident has happened in over eight years.
I want everyone to know that I am trying. And I want you to know that I will always be trying. I'm a bit undecided on the topic really. His wings will grow out again, and if it's safe I will allow it. I've only had him for about 9 months give or take. So it's not like he's always going to be clipped or that he can never not be. I would most def not clip if I only had to change a few things. But there are a few major issues. Right now I'm really just trying to figure things out. I'm trying to figure out where I will let him fly that's safe, how I will let him get outside time, etc. I'm saying this because I don't want everyone saying that I'm not trying, which I know you guys all mean well I just wanted to explain my problem.
- And second I mean that I won't rearrange my life I don't mean i won't change a few things. I really worded that wrong and it's not how I meant it. - I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore because I feel I have said what I have needed to say.
 
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Lady Jane

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I hope you read the article in the link.
 

XstatyK

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This is and will be one of the debates that will go on as long as people keep birds. Just like PC vs MAC, Windows vs Linux, Android vs iPhone.
I've read on forums that it's illegal in some countries but I can't seem to find any source for these statements, so not sure how valid that really is.
If it is valid and someone knows of a source I'd really like to see it.
How relevant is something that is illegal in one country vs what is legal in your country where you most likely were raised?
As an example, in some countries it is illegal for women to wear hats, ride bikes, wear tight clothes, does that speak volumes even though it is legal in the majority of countries around the world?

There will be people who say yes you should clip for X number of reasons.
And
There will be people who say no, you should never clip them, birds are meant to fly.

I think people should use common sense (though mileage may vary in this area)
Have dogs / cats in the house that haven't been taught better, probably best not to clip so the bird has a chance to get away if needed.
Have a fish pond in your living right next to your grand staircase full of Piranha? Then you can afford an aviary.;) Or else you should probably clip so your precious bird doesn't go flying into the pond of teeth to take a nice bird bath.

Silly examples, yes, but point is there very well could be a valid reason.

I read here that the unclipped bird was taken outside and flew away and she would do it again because basically its his right to fly. But if he flew away and got tired, landed and was eaten by some stray animal, or captured by a predatory bird, was that really the best thing for the little buddy bird?

If your only reason to argue against people who have clipped their birds wings is because birds are meant to fly and you're being cruel by doing so, then how do you justify a bird that is meant to fly miles as it pleases with the sky as it's ceiling to letting it just fly inside a bird room, living room, or house. Rhetorical question since as I've mentioned this is and always will be a heated debate with people on both sides of the fence.

I believe people here genuinely love their little buddies and would hope people aren't just clipping wings so he doesn't get away from you inside your home.
Are you taking actions to protect your bird and thought it all through, or are you doing it for the wrong reasons...
 

Mizzely

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This is and will be one of the debates that will go on as long as people keep birds. Just like PC vs MAC, Windows vs Linux, Android vs iPhone.

Except there is no health risks between using different operating systems, and that is YOUR preference you're deciding, not the birds.

I've read on forums that it's illegal in some countries but I can't seem to find any source for these statements, so not sure how valid that really is.
If it is valid and someone knows of a source I'd really like to see it.
How relevant is something that is illegal in one country vs what is legal in your country where you most likely were raised?
As an example, in some countries it is illegal for women to wear hats, ride bikes, wear tight clothes, does that speak volumes even though it is legal in the majority of countries around the world?

Members here live in countries where they report that the laws exist. Germany and Sweden off the top of my head. America is behind on animal welfare laws. We can look to progressive countries to see what things we can be doing differently.

I read here that the unclipped bird was taken outside and flew away and she would do it again because basically its his right to fly. But if he flew away and got tired, landed and was eaten by some stray animal, or captured by a predatory bird, was that really the best thing for the little buddy bird?


If you are referring to my comment earlier in this thread, I've never taken my birds out without being in a harness or carrier. Koopa got out through a small rip in the screen because she got spooked and flew into it just right to jet out. It was an accident. The way to prevent that was not to keep her clipped. It was to have made sure that screen was fixed before allowing her loose near it. So that's why I wouldn't go back if I could and clip her.
 

XstatyK

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Except there is no health risks between using different operating systems, and that is YOUR preference you're deciding, not the birds.
Why would you think there are health risks in an example used to describe a never ending topic of debate? It's describing a topic that will forever be debated. That should be pretty clear and not really need to be explained. But for the sake of discussion and an obvious need I have taken some time to help explain it to you so that there won't be any confusion.
Members here live in countries where they report that the laws exist. Germany and Sweden off the top of my head. America is behind on animal welfare laws. We can look to progressive countries to see what things we can be doing differently.
As mentioned previously, I have also read the same from people on forums, stating that it is illegal to clip the birds wings. But I'd like to point out the lack of valid sources describing these laws. I have to believe that if there are such laws that someone would have a reputable source on the laws, other than saying " I read it on the internet, therefore it must be true".
If you are referring to my comment earlier in this thread, I've never taken my birds out without being in a harness or carrier. Koopa got out through a small rip in the screen because she got spooked and flew into it just right to jet out. It was an accident. The way to prevent that was not to keep her clipped. It was to have made sure that screen was fixed before allowing her loose near it. So that's why I wouldn't go back if I could and clip her.
You're correct, it wasn't your post but it sounds close, but yes mistakes / accidents can happen and you wouldn't clip the wings for that type of situation because that is something that I hope is pretty rare and not something to be expected.
All of my birds flew into walls a lot more when clipped
Not sure if you clipped all your birds wings or if you happened to get them all that way. But this brings up another important note on clipping.
I've seen pictures where people cut the wings all the way to the coverts and this is obviously by people who have no clue on what they are doing and most likely damaged the bird physically. There's also no need to trim the secondary feathers, that will send the bird down hard and most likely cause physical harm when he hits the floor.
You can trim a few of the first primary flight feathers from the wing tip which allows him to still fly, land safely, but it slows him down.
When my little buddy flew dangerously fast into the TV and Windows (2 8' windows, thought they were 6' but measured them at 8') I started research into clipping. I read the debates, the mention of laws but no sources, the whole 9 yards. I read about the dangers and to be honest I wasn't comfortable doing it myself I took him to the vet, explained the situation and what i wanted done. they clipped like 3 or 4 primary feathers from each wing and done. Honestly sometimes he flies around so much that it doesn't feel like it slowed him down too much but It did slow him down a little and I was comfortable that he would be safer. And so far no more accidents.
Haven't had them clipped anymore as I don't see a need, he still flies around as happy as could be, still sits with me at my desk, jumps on my keyboard, takes my tooth picks, he still does everything he used to before except he hasn't flown into the TVs or windows.... yet.
 

Mizzely

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Why would you think there are health risks in an example used to describe a never ending topic of debate? It's describing a topic that will forever be debated. That should be pretty clear and not really need to be explained. But for the sake of discussion and an obvious need I have taken some time to help explain it to you so that there won't be any confusion.

As mentioned previously, I have also read the same from people on forums, stating that it is illegal to clip the birds wings. But I'd like to point out the lack of valid sources describing these laws. I have to believe that if there are such laws that someone would have a reputable source on the laws, other than saying " I read it on the internet, therefore it must be true".

You're correct, it wasn't your post but it sounds close, but yes mistakes / accidents can happen and you wouldn't clip the wings for that type of situation because that is something that I hope is pretty rare and not something to be expected.

Not sure if you clipped all your birds wings or if you happened to get them all that way. But this brings up another important note on clipping.
I've seen pictures where people cut the wings all the way to the coverts and this is obviously by people who have no clue on what they are doing and most likely damaged the bird physically. There's also no need to trim the secondary feathers, that will send the bird down hard and most likely cause physical harm when he hits the floor.
You can trim a few of the first primary flight feathers from the wing tip which allows him to still fly, land safely, but it slows him down.
When my little buddy flew dangerously fast into the TV and Windows (2 8' windows, thought they were 6' but measured them at 8') I started research into clipping. I read the debates, the mention of laws but no sources, the whole 9 yards. I read about the dangers and to be honest I wasn't comfortable doing it myself I took him to the vet, explained the situation and what i wanted done. they clipped like 3 or 4 primary feathers from each wing and done. Honestly sometimes he flies around so much that it doesn't feel like it slowed him down too much but It did slow him down a little and I was comfortable that he would be safer. And so far no more accidents.
Haven't had them clipped anymore as I don't see a need, he still flies around as happy as could be, still sits with me at my desk, jumps on my keyboard, takes my tooth picks, he still does everything he used to before except he hasn't flown into the TVs or windows.... yet.


There are health risks for the bird associated with clipping. Clipping leads to preventable illnesses. That's why you're example was flawed. All of my birds came to me clipped. They were clipped correctly. They just can better maneuver when they have full range of motion.
 

XstatyK

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There are health risks for the bird associated with clipping. Clipping leads to preventable illnesses. That's why you're example was flawed. All of my birds came to me clipped. They were clipped correctly. They just can better maneuver when they have full range of motion.
It wasn't flawed since it had nothing to do with bird health, health risks, or ethics on clipping.
It was stating that this topic is a never ending debate that will never find a unified answer.
There will always be people on both sides of the fence.
Just as there will always be people on both sides of the fence on other never ending debates such as Windows vs Linux, or other never ending debates such as PC vs MAC, or other debates such as Android vs iPhone. Those are 3 never ending debates that came off the top of my head.
Other topics that ALSO have nothing to do with bird health or ethics on clippings, or health risks associated with clippings but ARE topics that are never ending debates are: Religion, Politics, Ware, Peace. Just examples of never ending debates, nothing more.
 

XstatyK

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All of my birds came to me clipped. They were clipped correctly. They just can better maneuver when they have full range of motion.
Is the clipping I previously described in my last post something you would consider to be "clipped correctly"
From the research I did I believe it was right and my vet seemed to agree but that doesn't necessarily mean its bird clipping law :)
But honest question, is that what you consider to be clipped correctly, or if not maybe you can describe it.
 

Love My Zons

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Everyone will have a different opinion on this. If you are diligent when they are out and about and you know where they are in a safe room of their own you shouldn't have any issues. I have lived for close to 10 years with flighted Zons and they have never had even a close call with getting out. I have a full flighted parrotlet that flew when he was out in a safe room. He lived to be close to 16. So flighted birds living in a home can happen.
 

Mizzely

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@Eloy you are in Sweden, can you chime in about the laws? I'm certain I found them but they were in Swedish :p
 

XstatyK

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Is the clipping I previously described in my last post something you would consider to be "clipped correctly"
From the research I did I believe it was right and my vet seemed to agree but that doesn't necessarily mean its bird clipping law :)
But honest question, is that what you consider to be clipped correctly, or if not maybe you can describe it.
@Mizzely Hi, interested if you could help describe the "clipped correctly" comment. Want to see if my Vet is giving like-minded guidance.
Thanks
 

AvianCrew

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Yukio came clipped. Pine was my first parrot and we clipped him, as we did not know the cons.
 

Sylvi_

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I'll always personally keep my parrots flighted.
They're free to decide where they want to go/what they want to do, and it's an extraordinary feeling when an animal such as a bird comes to you on their free will.
They're naturally a prey animal, so that show of trust is so rewarding. :)

I've had a clipped bird fly away before, sadly. Anytime my flock go outside it's in travel cages.
As owners of these wonderful animals, we have a job to do what's best for them - physically and mentally. And a flighted bird to me, does just that.
Everyone wants their birds to be happy, at the end of the day. :)
 
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