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Pls help! i don't know what to do

Shinobi

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@Shinobi Great write-up, I appreciate the time you took for this very in-depth subject matter . I have a question hopefully you could possibly shed some light on for me and others as well. What if a bird /parrot isn't food motivated, how then would one proceed ?


Never come across a bird that wasn't good motivated. But you could use praise instead.
 

Just-passn-thru

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Never come across a bird that wasn't good motivated. But you could use praise instead.
My birds don't respond to food training. But they do respond to praise
Do not use a pond net or any type of net to catch your bird. This will destroy any trust you have built.

I have yet to see any animal caught in a net not to struggle and suffer stress.
What do you suggest if a small untamed little bird get lose and wont step-up on a perch , how would you go about retrieving it back to the safety of it's cage.
Nets are as bad as gloves when it comes to birds. You could train him to step on a T stick.
What do you suggest if a small untamed little bird get lose and wont step-up on a perch , how would you go about retrieving it back to the safety of it's cage.
If you have a better method to restrain a frantic untamed little bird flying all over the place , I would like to know your method as maybe other people as well.
sometimes that is the last resort one may have to do to ultimately keep the little bird out of harms way, I don't recommend it as a "way " but only if their is "no other way." To be clear...


 
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Shinobi

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My birds don't respond to food training. But they do respond to praise

What do you suggest if a small untamed little bird get lose and wont step-up on a perch , how would you go about retrieving it back to the safety of it's cage.


What do you suggest if a small untamed little bird get lose and wont step-up on a perch , how would you go about retrieving it back to the safety of it's cage.

If you have a better method to restrain a frantic untamed little bird flying all over the place , I would like to know your method as maybe other people as well.
sometimes that is the last resort one may have to do to ultimately keep the little bird out of harms way, I don't recommend it as a "way " but only if their is "no other way." To be clear...



Well you obviously had the answer to your question about a bird that isn't food motivated. Some birds respond to food and praise, others bird can be either food or praise.

why would you let an frantic untamed bird out of it's cage?

Maybe you should consider doing some target training in the cage until the bird is not so frantic or untamed.

The use of a net is only feeding the bird's-fear. I think that you should use webchirp's suggestion of turning off the lights and catching the bird in the dark.
 

Just-passn-thru

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Maybe you should consider doing some target training in the cage until the bird is not so frantic or untamed.

The use of a net is only feeding the bird's-fear. I think that you should use webchirp's suggestion of turning off the lights and catching the bird in the dark.
I don't have a problem with my birds ,my birds fly to me on call . I was merely offering suggestions to the poster on this thread about the fact that their little bird escaped from it's cage and would not go back in and did not come down from very high places. what then would one do ? lets say ..." " bird is not clicker trained bird is not human imprinted, bird is not step-up trained . house is on fire, bird gets out can't catch it what would you do ? crab a clicker and hope it responds ? get a t perch and hope it fly's to it ? hold up your arm and say step-up ? or maybe get a net a net to bring it to safety . Turn off the lights and runaround and try to catch it ! :shrug3: Just a thought...but hey I'm no expert . Although I seem to have done quite well with my birds in gaining their trust.
 
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Just-passn-thru

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Well you obviously had the answer to your question about a bird that isn't food motivated. Some birds respond to food and praise, others bird can be either food or praise.
Your correct about that but others might like to know alternatives. As I stated above I'm no expert . What works for me may not be a good fit for someone else. I wanted to learn your approach since nothing is written in stone and you appear to be very knowledgeable about taming and training birds. For the record I never did like the terms TAMING AND TRAINING. I prefer to use conditioning maybe that's why I have no issue interacting with my birds.
 

Shinobi

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I don't have a problem with my birds ,my birds fly to me on call . I was merely offering suggestions to the poster on this thread about the fact that their little bird escaped from it's cage and would not go back in and did not come down from very high places. what then would one do ? lets say ..." " bird is not clicker trained bird is not human imprinted, bird is not step-up trained . house is on fire, bird gets out can't catch it what would you do ? crab a clicker and hope it responds ? get a t perch and hope it fly's to it ? hold up your arm and say step-up ? or maybe get a net a net to bring it to safety . Turn off the lights and runaround and try to catch it ! :shrug3: Just a thought...but hey I'm no expert . Although I seem to have done quite well with my birds in gaining their trust.

Let's say people actually spend time training and taming their bird. So that when an emergency arises they are prepared to deal with it. It's called planning for the future.

Birds can be trained in a very short time. I have had birds stepping up and down in a day while others have taken weeks.

If the bird is untrained and untamed then why would you risk letting the bird out. The bird could fly into a wall or window maybe out a open door regardless if the house is on fire or not.

I prefer not to think about the "what ifs"or the "let's say". Instead I would focus on being proactive in suggesting a solution in preventing a untrained and untamed bird flying frantically around the house.

Training is one of the most effective and efficient ways of achieving this.



 

Just-passn-thru

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Let's say people actually spend time training and taming their bird. So that when an emergency arises they are prepared to deal with it. It's called planning for the future.

Birds can be trained in a very short time. I have had birds stepping up and down in a day while others have taken weeks.

If the bird is untrained and untamed then why would you risk letting the bird out. The bird could fly into a wall or window maybe out a open door regardless if the house is on fire or not.

I prefer not to think about the "what ifs"or the "let's say". Instead I would focus on being proactive in suggesting a solution in preventing a untrained and untamed bird flying frantically around the house.

Training is one of the most effective and efficient ways of achieving this.




Good for you ! I hope that works for everyone :idea: Take care... and thank you for your in-depth view. You've been most inspiring :teacher:
 

Shinobi

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Thanks for that
just-passn-thru.

Kuro
I plan for the worst and hope for the best.

So what the worst case scenario?
Bird dies.
So what the best case scenario one can hope for?
Bird lives a Long and healthy life.


Why did the bird die?
The bird flew into a wall or window.

Why did the bird fly into the wall or window?
Bird was frantic / scared and flew around house to escape.

Why was the bird flying around the house trying to escape?
Bird was not tame and scared of humans.

Why is the bird not tame and scared of humans?
Because human hasn't interacted with bird by bonding and trust building through training sessions.

What is needed to be done?
Regular bonding and trust building by training sessions.


 

Kuro

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So I think it may be best to let him settle down and get used to his new routine before any training. Taking him here and there will serve to confuse him and we know our birds thrive on routines. The bathroom is the room I have always used to train birds to safely fly. Do you have a parrot stand that you can put near his cage and let him know that is his place? Treats, toys and other goodies can be attached.
To make him used to the bathroom what should i do? and i do have a little t stand (something like this) but since it's not a "tall" one is it ok if i put it on top of his cage?
sorry for all these dumb questions!! i'm so glad you've helped me!!! thank you!! :hug8:
 

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Kuro

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I wouldn't be too worried about his excitement, after all let him set the pace. But I would still remove the training treats from his diet.


Maybe you could get a second cage that is smaller for your room and use it just for training purposes.

Do not use a pond net or any type of net to catch your bird. This will destroy any trust you have built.

I have yet to see any animal caught in a net not to struggle and suffer stress.
i do have a smaller cage :D (thank god lol) but if it's better to not catch him with a net, what should i do? should i wait for him even if it's more than 13 hours he's out? and if he doesn't move (like last time) should i try to make him fly instead of catching him?
ty so much for helping mee!!! haha
 

Kuro

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omg guys sorry i just clicked on the notifications and didn't realize that there were more answers!!! sorry for asking questions that have already been asked lol
 

Just-passn-thru

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i do have a smaller cage :D (thank god lol) but if it's better to not catch him with a net, what should i do? should i wait for him even if it's more than 13 hours he's out? and if he doesn't move (like last time) should i try to make him fly instead of catching him?
ty so much for helping mee!!! haha
If he's on the floor you could try to throw a towel over him you have to get him somehow :blink:don't you think having this little bird out flying around in a panic isn't stressful for it and you ? what do you do, hope and pray that some how the bird is going to fly down to you. HA HA !In a perfect world sorry it's not going to happen, now if you were an expert in "Taming & Training " as others have claimed. then of course you would know how to handle the bird, but you are not, that is why you ask for advice. I'm not saying to use a net every time you handle the bird , it's a alternative to getting your bird back to safety . If the bird is out franticly flying around and you have to use a net then you put bird back in cage and let it calm down for the remainder of the day. No further handeling for the day . I think lecturing people on how to train and tame is putting undo stress upon folks who have not yet mastered the techniques or skill and sends a message that somehow you failed your bird and it becomes overwhelming to the new bird owner that they may not be capable of bird ownership . In a real world how can one expect someone to immediately tame and train a bird if one has no experience.

Easy for others with experience to say !


Start with baby steps find a quiet place to work with your bird ,in a small quiet room that you can retrieve him easily if needed ,make sure the he will not get hurt if he gets away from you .

Cover the mirrors with a towel as to avoid him crashing into it and hurting himself.
Close the toilet seat cover . Start with short sessions, try a dowel or perch and from inside his cage open the door in a calm way and try a step-up command in a soft calm tone by touching gently on his belly keeping the perch close to his body. he may flutter and fly around his cage.
Try a few times with the words step - up! then stop ,next day do it again he may be less flighty this time or maybe not !

Keep your sessions short and simple .
Consistency is the key to success.
When he has the step--up learned ,you can move on to another level depending on your commitment to it.

Side note... if your bird is food motivated reward him with his favorite treat, if not interested in food then praise is also good, my birds are not into treats when learning new things . every bird is different and each learn and react on an individual basis . If you prefer using a clicker instead of voice then use what suites you and your bird best. :xflove:
 
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Kuro

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If he's on the floor you could try to throw a towel over him you have to get him somehow :blink:don't you think having this little bird out flying around in a panic isn't stressful for it and you ? what do you do, hope and pray that some how the bird is going to fly down to you. HA HA !In a perfect world sorry it's not going to happen, now if you were an expert in "Taming & Training " as others have claimed. then of course you would know how to handle the bird, but you are not, that is why you ask for advice. I'm not saying to use a net every time you handle the bird , it's a alternative to getting your bird back to safety . If the bird is out franticly flying around and you have to use a net then you put bird back in cage and let it calm down for the remainder of the day. No further handeling for the day . I think lecturing people on how to train and tame is putting undo stress upon folks who have not yet mastered the techniques or skill and sends a message that somehow you failed your bird and it becomes overwhelming to the new bird owner that they may not be capable of bird ownership . In a real world how can one expect someone to immediately tame and train a bird if one has no experience.

Easy for others with experience to say !


Start with baby steps find a quiet place to work with your bird ,in a small quiet room that you can retrieve him easily if needed ,make sure the he will not get hurt if he gets away from you .

Cover the mirrors with a towel as to avoid him crashing into it and hurting himself.
Close the toilet seat cover . Start with short sessions, try a dowel or perch and from inside his cage open the door in a calm way and try a step-up command in a soft calm tone by touching gently on his belly keeping the perch close to his body. he may flutter and fly around his cage.
Try a few times with the words step - up! then stop ,next day do it again he may be less flighty this time or maybe not !

Keep your sessions short and simple .
Consistency is the key to success.
When he has the step--up learned ,you can move on to another level depending on your commitment to it.

Side note... if your bird is food motivated reward him with his favorite treat, if not interested in food then praise is also good, my birds are not into treats when learning new things . every bird is different and each learn and react on an individual basis . If you prefer using a clicker instead of voice then use what suites you and your bird best. :xflove:

Thank you so much for having helped me!!! i was really scared that people would bash me for not knowing what to do but now i'm glad i wrote this thread, 'cause everyone has been really nice and helpful :swoon: i feel like now i know better what to do thanks to all those advices and i'm gonna do all the steps you've suggested :) i'll try my best to keep my little buddy happy and safe!! i only want the best for him in the end haha

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!! (Jojo's thankful too lmao):grouphug2::heart:
 

finchly

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@Just-passn-thru that is very good advice.

I have lots of littles, and yes they escape, and yes I use nets. @Lady Jane is exactly right, they are not ideal but what are you going to do? It is unsafe for them to fly around and maybe hit a window, a fan, land on the floor near a dog.... even in the bird room they could simply get caught in something.... and there's a glass-front atrium in there too. So. I do use the net, and it is a moment of stress but compare that to a whole afternoon of stress and I think the score evens out.

Little guys can slide past you so easily. Even when I use my body in the cage door to block, I turn or lean and oops - there went one! Or in the taller custom aviary (it is 7 feet tall, I am 5'3") they go over my head. I have tried many tricks, hold my hand up, hang a towel over the doorway etc. but these things happen.

One of the worst is my female parrotlet. She was hand fed and then left in a cage with no handling. Came here and was terrified of me. She still goes to the highest spot in the room, 9 feet I think. So I have no choice - if she won't go in her cage at lights out, I give her a little while and then I have to catch her with a net. She's slowly becoming more trusting so I know it hasn't set us back *too* much. Would like to avoid it but she is not nearly at a training point yet.
 

Just-passn-thru

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@Just-passn-thru that is very good advice.

I have lots of littles, and yes they escape, and yes I use nets. @Lady Jane is exactly right, they are not ideal but what are you going to do? It is unsafe for them to fly around and maybe hit a window, a fan, land on the floor near a dog.... even in the bird room they could simply get caught in something.... and there's a glass-front atrium in there too. So. I do use the net, and it is a moment of stress but compare that to a whole afternoon of stress and I think the score evens out.

Little guys can slide past you so easily. Even when I use my body in the cage door to block, I turn or lean and oops - there went one! Or in the taller custom aviary (it is 7 feet tall, I am 5'3") they go over my head. I have tried many tricks, hold my hand up, hang a towel over the doorway etc. but these things happen.

One of the worst is my female parrotlet. She was hand fed and then left in a cage with no handling. Came here and was terrified of me. She still goes to the highest spot in the room, 9 feet I think. So I have no choice - if she won't go in her cage at lights out, I give her a little while and then I have to catch her with a net. She's slowly becoming more trusting so I know it hasn't set us back *too* much. Would like to avoid it but she is not nearly at a training point yet.

Thank you @finchly I rest my case :highfive:
 

Shinobi

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There was a study on the effects of using a net to catch finches to put them into cages.

It was found that within a month, over 63% of the birds feared being caught by the net so much that they would fly into the cages themselves.

The result of getting the birds into the cage was achieved. But was the method good. No because it used fear instead of positive reinforcement.

I would much rather keep the bird in it's cage and interact with it though positive reinforcement to build trust so that a net is not required when it's finally let out of the cage.

The most likely reason that a bird has flown out of a cage is because the human is placing their hands inside the cage. Which is causing the bird to panic, stress and go into fight or flight mode.

The cage is the birds safe place and no-one should be invading it.

Just-passn-thru
No one on this post has claimed to be an expert in taming or training or is lecturing anyone. Nor has anyone made a statement saying anything about failure of new bird owners. So exactly how did you come to that conclusion?

Advice was asked for and it was given. The one common theme is that to have your bird sit with you, is that time spent training is required.

I didn't HOPE that my bird would fly down to me. I TRAINED IT TO FLY ME. Big difference.

No one apart from yourself is saying that in a perfect world a bird will just fly down to you without any training.

In a nutshell a bird owner must spend a lot of time with their bird if they are to have a bond. This is achieved by positive reinforcement training, not hope.
 

Just-passn-thru

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@Shinobi Let's give it a rest :joyful: this poor poster is going to be so confused . Your making this way to complicated than it has to be. I'm sure it will all turn out for the best.
@Kuro has a very detailed assortment of information from which to glean and use. And i personally don't want to carry-on any more about the statists of what is or is not stressful for birds in field work and scientific study's. I admire your passion and commitment and knowledge in the area Avian training, i understand you care deeply about the outcome of the avian/human bond. however i am not going to continue with this conversation .It is hijacking the posters intensions of this thread and turning into a challenge of egos. Take care .
 
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Just-passn-thru

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There was a study on the effects of using a net to catch finches to put them into cages.

It was found that within a month, over 63% of the birds feared being caught by the net so much that they would fly into the cages themselves.

The result of getting the birds into the cage was achieved. But was the method good. No because it used fear instead of positive reinforcement.

I would much rather keep the bird in it's cage and interact with it though positive reinforcement to build trust so that a net is not required when it's finally let out of the cage.

The most likely reason that a bird has flown out of a cage is because the human is placing their hands inside the cage. Which is causing the bird to panic, stress and go into fight or flight mode

The cage is the birds safe place and no-one should be invading it.
this should be directed to @finchly
 

Shinobi

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Just-passn-thru
So now I'm making it complicated wow.
I think that you were just unable to provide an adequate answers. But hey if you want to use methods that obsolete, than you can.

I think that the poster was after up to date training methods and positive reinforcement is one of the better methods available.

I just don't like to use methods that causes fear, stress or a risk of injury.

PS.
I thought you weren't going to continue because you feel that it was a challenge of egos and hijacking of this thread.
 
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