• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Pellet-free diets

Piggy'smom

Strolling the yard
Joined
1/24/15
Messages
97
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Hi Everyone, I am planning on feeding my CAG a commercial pellet-free diet, and getting nutrients to her through natural, varied fruits/vegetables/legumes/grains, with possibly just a supplement sprinkled into her food to get a complete, well-rounded diet into her. I have weaned my three dogs off of commercial food and now strictly home cook for them, and it has done their health wonders. Has anyone out there done this for their greys, and what advice/products would you recommend?
 

JLcribber

@cockatoojohn
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Shutterbugs' Best
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/16/09
Messages
22,620
Location
Alberta, Canada
Real Name
John
The supplement is probably going to be the most important thing because it's very hard to feed a complete diet that supplies all the things they need and more importantly the right amounts.

Because birds are such picky eaters they will always choose their favourite foods first to the detriment of other things they should be eating.

Doing this for a dog is one thing (I feed my dog raw). Doing it for a parrot is another. If your bird is a female it is even more important to be religiously diligent about diet because of egg laying.
 
Last edited:

expressmailtome

Ripping up the road
Administrator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/15/10
Messages
49,992
Real Name
Matthew
The biggest issue that I see with going that route, is vitamin D3. Does she spend time outside in the sun? The vitamin D that she needs is not found in plants. Without pellets, she will need unfiltered sunlight to help keep her healthy. Animal products such as eggs do contain some of the vitamin D that she needs, but it is fatty to give enough everyday to supply her the proper amount of vitamin D3. If you do go this path, I would recommend a vitamin D supplement. It is usually paired with calcium for proper absorption.

Matt
 

JLcribber

@cockatoojohn
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Shutterbugs' Best
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/16/09
Messages
22,620
Location
Alberta, Canada
Real Name
John
Nothing wrong with a good pellet for a parrot. As long as that's not all its eating like any thing else.
 

clawnz

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/19/09
Messages
1,174
Location
Auckland NZ
Real Name
Clive
Good on you wanting to drop pellets. There are not many that I would say are good. But will not go into reasons here.
Harrisons is one of the better ones. But if used should only be a small part of the total diet.
Example ix spoonful per week for an Eclectus. But you will find a large number are feeding way over this. And you will also see a large number of these birds have issues.
It can be done, just takes a little more effort. And you will need to be careful during that period. Weight checks are good
There are some tricks, and that is making blends in a processor, making birdy bread, birdy mash, birdy nuggets.
Vit A can be covered without any supplements. There are plenty of natural foods you can feed.

I would advise a move away from all processed foods.
If you find Jason Crean on facebook Avian Raw Whole foods it can get sound advice, based on real foods.
A good varied fresh natural diet is coming back into vogue. And more people are moving away from pelleted diets.
Not that you will hear this from the pellet companies.
I even caught out Greg Harrison with one classic false claim. He stated that Toe Tapping was a matting think with Eclectus. Anybody who has seen this will tell you the bird is not enjoying it. And this is from the man who is Harrisons Pellets.
In fact there was another. Feeding an Eclectus on Harrisons High Potency. This is so wrong and you will see Toe Tapping and even wing flipping if you do this.
It has been shown by actually over feeding supplements you can induce the action.

What the concerns are and cannot be tested for is bone density. All other things can be tested for.
Some AV's are saying and rightly so, that a good number of birds to show that they have suffered from poor diets. Seeds are the normal blame. People just feed seeds saying well that is all my bird likes. Just as bad as people feeding pellets as a total diet. It takes effort to feed them well.
As most seed mix does not have a good range of different seeds and grains in them. Some maybe of poor quality from day one, some maybe stale, old.
Simple try to sprout them, a good mix will sprout. Then there are plenty of other seeds and grains you can add to them.
Veges, Fruit and nuts are also part of a good diet.
Sprouting is also another great way to get decent foods into them. Or even just soak seed.
 
Last edited:

Bokkapooh

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
25,464
Location
Pacific Northwest
Real Name
Mercedez
You'll have to sprout seeds and grains. And and research how to get CALCIUM and minerals and vitamins through diet.

For parrots its very difficult to provide this. Most avian vet will say almost every single bird they see that is not fed pellets, usually has a vitamin deficiency which leads to other organ issues due to malnutrition.
 

clawnz

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/19/09
Messages
1,174
Location
Auckland NZ
Real Name
Clive
[QUOTE="Bokkapooh, post: 2249337, member: 153"]You'll have to sprout seeds and grains. And and research how to get CALCIUM and minerals and vitamins through diet.
For parrots its very difficult to provide this
. Quote.

This is not that difficult and using natural foods and they are far better for the birds to utilize. it just take a bit of effort, unlike throwing some pellets in the bowl every now and then.


Quote "Most avian vet will say almost every single bird they see that is not fed pellets, usually has a vitamin deficiency which leads to other organ issues due to malnutrition.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a bit off. Most vets that see there is a problem do not say that it is because the bird is not being fed any pellets. It is from poor diet for sure, but nothing to do with Not Being Fed Pellets.

Sophie. Not one pellet fed here.
Before


After just 13weeks on a full fresh diet. No Supplements at all. Just good foods.


And I have pictures of a lot more like this of other birds.
You do not need to fed pellets to have a good healthy bird.
 
Last edited:

Bokkapooh

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
25,464
Location
Pacific Northwest
Real Name
Mercedez
Every single avian vet I've talked to and I've been two two. And one clinic has 4. Says that the birds who are not fed pellets are more likely to have nutrition issue. And vitamin deficiency.

Birds are picky. Even my guys have picky days. And they eat about 15 ingredients a day of fresh producenand grains and cooked foods. Well..about that much is offered but my guys dont eat everything I give them. And if they choose to be picky on several ingredients they'll be lacking nutrition from those, and thus become deficient.

I am happy some people can feed everything to their birds and they eat EVERYTHING. BUT Most captive parrots do not eat everything offered.

I prefer to know that my guys are getting everything they need nutritionally through pellets but still are offered variety for mental enrichment towards things they eat.

That's my goal when feeding my guys fresh produce and cooked food, and sprouts and dry seeds and nuts. For mental enrichment. They eat well what I offer but most days they turn their noses up to some things.

Ah. Oh well. Atleast I know they are eating their pellets, too.
 

Bokkapooh

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
25,464
Location
Pacific Northwest
Real Name
Mercedez
Eclectus have long digestive tracts and I hear they tend to eat everything put in front of them. The female I was fostering tended to be a glutton for anything in her feed dish.I wouldn't feed an ekkie pellets. They along with quite a few bird species, do not do well on pellets.
 

clawnz

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/19/09
Messages
1,174
Location
Auckland NZ
Real Name
Clive
But they are not saying you MUST feed pellets are they?
Anybody coming here and reading what you said would go away thinking they NEED to feed pellets which is not true.

And lets face it, they mostly see sick birds, not the other 90% that never go to the vets.
I'll take this into a new thread, so we can discuss this away from this thread.
 

Irishj9

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/25/12
Messages
3,672
Real Name
JP
It doesnt matter whether its somebody's opinion that we MUST feed pellets or not. Pellets are the obvious solution to an obvious problem.

I'm Jealous of Clive. he clearly has too much time on his hands. I suggest he does some research on what is sold to us as 'natural' or 'organically farmed' and he will quickly turn to pellets.

For myself I have a job and a myriad of other responsibilities, which means that I cannot spend all morning in the kitchen examining the ( all natural organically grown by virgins on the west side of the mountain and picked under a full moon) nutritional content of the bird food I prepare, and then spend all afternoon examining the amount which was wasted on the floor vs actually being eaten.

Formula= ( weight supplied less weight still on the floor = amount eaten, divided by number of birds gives average eaten per bird). But not which bird ACTUALLY ate it!

Then I can use the *nighttime for my own personal birdie blood labs to see what is the ACTUAL current nutritional status of my birds, and amend the next mornings all natural and organic bird food shopping list while my human dependents desperately try to mimic the birds contact calls to get my attention, while subsisting on junk food takeaways.

For all these reasons, responsible owners also feed pellets, ( as recommended by our friendly neighbourhood vets) to cover all bases.

I can also provide a hundred pictures of my GORGEOUS caiques which are fed a +-30% high quality pellet diet, which I supplement with lots of healthy vegetable, fruit, seed, and cereal options. Irishj9's uploaded images - Imgur

( *In the evenings I clean bird poop off my clothes and drink heavily, no time for blood labs)
 
Last edited:

clawnz

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
11/19/09
Messages
1,174
Location
Auckland NZ
Real Name
Clive
Irish If you think your ingreidents in pellets are any better than the other real foods you buy then you are badly mistaken. Unless the ingredients are sourced from fully certified places well away from normal crops and GMO. There is every chance they have some contamination. They do not grow their own ingredients.
I run a small rescue, board birds, have my own birds, and work for a living. The birds come first and I go out of my way to make sure they NEVER get any processed foods. Unless my AV says I have to medicate. Even then we will look at alternatives. And each time we have sorted without adding pellets.
My own and any birds coming in for rehoming do get an Avian Vet check and gram stain minimum. And we will go further if there seems to be any signs we need to. If I am not sure about a birds personal diet I will get on the net and research. Talk to people and make my own decisions based on good advice. And anybody who says I have to use pellets I try to ignore.

Peggy'smum asked a simple question and other than my reply they got negative feed back. That is why I said for them to go to Jason Crean's group for help. From real people feeding real foods. Information they are not getting by being told they have to feed pellets or their bird will be sick. Which is false.
As I said we can discuss pellets and the good and bad about them in another thread.
Care to share the name of this high quality pellet you are feeding. So that I can run over what they are how they are made and why you class them as such.
CAG are a little complicated, but that does not mean you throw pellets at them trying to cover all base's.
 

Irishj9

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/25/12
Messages
3,672
Real Name
JP
Spot_broccoli_adj.jpg JJ_broccoli small.jpg

OK this is my opening evidence for a 30% pelleted diet. Spot, Jack_Jack, Soentjie.

I have a cheap camera. Look at that feather quality!

Now to the debate:

qUOTE="clawnz, post: 2249955, member: 511"]Unless the ingredients are sourced from fully certified places well away from normal crops and GMO. There is every chance they have some contamination. They do not grow their own ingredients.
[/QUOTE]

Yes my pellet manufacturer ( a certified avian vet) does source his own ingredients. He cold presses them naturally. Fruit Chunks | Animalzone

I am also in Africa. Far away from the chemically addicted US food suppliers.

Howevrr, it is TOTALLY unrealistic to expect, in today's urbanised society, all parrot owners to grow their own ingredients!. And to monitor their birds health for missing micronutrients.

So yes the food chain is exposed to risk. In some places more than others. For instance while food standard application is lower in South Africa, we do not have HUGE food corporations pouring massive amounts of dyes, chemicals, and colourants into the food chain.

And don't make me laugh about what is 'natural'. Ebola is 'natural'. Fungus and spores growing in a backyard garden are 'natural'. Mites and bugs, and slugs are natural. Sugar and salt are also natural and poisonous to birds in the wrong quantities.

Diet is a balance to be achieved, not an absolute unattainable standard to be adhered to, like a cult religion.

Maybe a 'natural' garden will make me 'FEEL' better. Sod that. I work on results, not emotions, feelings etc
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Wolf

Jogging around the block
Joined
9/12/14
Messages
854
I do not feed pellets to any of my birds, I, for reasons of my own, just do not feel that they are the best food that I can give to my birds. I feed my birds an appetizer first thing in the mornings which is a fresh raw fruit, a fresh raw vegetable and a fresh raw leafy green, this is followed in about an hour with a cooked food consisting of 40% cooked whole grains, 40% cooked mixed vegetables and 20% cooked white beans and lentils. The fresh produce is changed on a daily basis so that my birds eat a large variety of fruits, vegetables and leafy greens. The cooked food is also made in several varieties depending on what is seasonally available. They get enough of these food to last all day long and then are given a high quality seed/ nut mix for dinner and this is removed when they go to sleep for the night.
 

Piggy'smom

Strolling the yard
Joined
1/24/15
Messages
97
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Thank you Wolf, that is basically what I had in mind to do, and wanted to see what results others have had with it. As long as you rotate the variety it seems they get the nutrients they need. After all, we don't eat every single nutrient we need every single day but if we give ourselves enough variety, we get the job done. Do you give a supplement also or do you find the food is enough?
 

aooratrix

Macawaholic
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/6/13
Messages
6,049
Real Name
Matthew
No captive diet can possibly cover all the bases. I accept that pellets aren't the be all, end all, but offering a quality pellet in addition to fresh foods is fine, IMO, even if it takes less effort. I have 3 primary reasons for offering them: the birds have something to eat during the day when I'm out that doesn't have the potential to act as a medium for potentially harmful bacteria. Second, if something happens to me, a new owner might not make chop, sprout seeds, etc., but anyone can feed pellets. My birds wouldn't starve. Finally, I offer the variety I do in an effort to throw darts at the board and hope for a bullseye/good result, nutritionally.
 

AlphaWolf

Walking the driveway
Joined
11/10/13
Messages
216
Real Name
Abdel
I love debates :) My stance in this is to be against pellets in general. Coming from a medical family background, it is obvious that processed foods are the reason where Americans and many countries are facing high amounts of disease such as cancer and heart disease. Coming from a Mediterranean family background with some of the healthiest people in the world I can testify to this. Birds are similar, their body is optimised for the diet they eat in the wild. I believed that the processed food ideology works exactly the same for birds. Yes, teaching a bird to accept pellets may be good in case of unavailable or natural disaster. But in general healthy fruit and vegetables are the way to go. I also dislike supplements due to the unnaturally. Why give our birds vitamin D3 supplements when they are originally made to absorb D3 from the sunlight!
 

aooratrix

Macawaholic
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/6/13
Messages
6,049
Real Name
Matthew
My supplements are chia seeds, flax seed, bee pollen, or probiotics. We don't really know the exact requirements of each specie; we just know little bits and pieces. I don't think ANY of us can be certain that our birds are ingesting ALL the nutrients they require; we can simply offer a bounty and hope for the best. I am quite comfortable offering my birds quality pellets, organic produce, and chop with 40+ ingredients, usually organic. And my birds' plumage is every bit as gorgeous as others I've seen.
 
Top