No Toys for Breeding pairs?

[Mzme]

Hello All,

I have question. I am an owner of an unrelated pair of black headed caiques, a Jenday Conure & Hahns Macaw. I have recently purchased a white bellied caique, only 2 weeks old so I do not have it as yet.

I want to try breeding down the track as I love parrots and I get so much enjoyment out of them. I will be purchasing another wb caique next year to pair up with my current one I have purchased.

I have visited different breeders and one thing I notice is that none of the birds have toys in their cages. It sort of concerns me as these birds are just so intelligent and to just sit in a jail cell with nothing to do but breed and lay eggs seems a little cruel. I went to a breeder yesterday and he had 2 blue and gold macaws in a cage with no toys and 2 yellow collared and hahns macaws all breeding pairs with nothing but a perch, a box and water and food. My Hahns macaw is smarter than my dog, she loves nothing more than to play, wrestle, talk, attack her bells, chew on her wooden toys, throw a ball.... Is there a reason that breeding parrots have no toys in their cages? I would love to know. Surely they don't sit on eggs all year round, what happens the rest of the year?

If I was to try out breeding my birds I want them to also be happy, can I put toys in their aviary?

Thanks

 

[JLcribber]

What are you going to do with all those babies?

 

[JLcribber]

I went to a breeder yesterday and he had 2 blue and gold macaws in a cage with no toys and 2 yellow collared and hahns macaws all breeding pairs with nothing but a perch, a box and water and food.

What fabulous life eH?

Why don't you just give the birds you have a great life and leave the breeding to those selfish egotistic breeders. There's already enough doomed caged birds in the world. Please.

 

[Feather]

John is right. You can love parrots and derive joy from them without creating more. Cherish those already in your care and do not contribute to the ever-growing problem of too many parrots in not enough homes.

As for the reason their cages are empty, breeders often do not provide toys or other enrichment because it "distracts" from the money making.

 

[Matto]

For the sake of this response, I'm going to assume that these are good breeders who want the best for their birds. Breeders (when they're in the season) tend to ignore toys as raising chicks is very time and energy consuming. I know my linnies could not care less about their many toys when they have eggs or chicks. Another potential reason is commonly raised by Tony Silva. In his opinion, playing with toys is a solitary act, whereas he wants his birds to do more communal activities. For this reason, he mostly provides them with wood to chew and destroy.
Of course, there is always the possibility that they think that toys distract a pair from breeding or they simply don't care enough to give them toys.

 

[TikiMyn]

I am no breeder, but I would never ever ever have a bird, or any animal, without toys. I would always offer the opportunity. Maybe Some birds do get less interested when breeding, but the opportunity should be there I think. Or they get more into chewing like matto Said, then offer more of that type of activity.

 

[Begone]

I want to try breeding down the track as I love parrots and I get so much enjoyment out of them.

If you do love parrots make sure to not breed any babies that probably will end up after several homes at a rescue. Or even worse in a home that can be there's worst nightmare.

I did ask Akelas breeder (today a dear friend to me) why her parent had so few toys, and the breeder said the reason was that toys distract them from breeding and raising babies.
But they had some. This is the breeders BH babies, and as you can see they did have some toys.

EDIT: Those parrots are parent raised and live with their parents until they are sold.

 

[Thenatural]

Hmm I can now see there are indeed many here that turn people away from breeding and even come across to make some feel bad.

Once again birds being denied for the ignorance and even stupidity of others.

Yes there are millions in shelters oh boy I have heard this over and over.

Millions of kids in orphanage also so should all stop having kids?

Its ridiculous.

You want to breed birds, breed them bud.

Keep it small, keep it real and be an absolute horses bum about whom you sell them to..go above and beyond for oh yes many will tell you no such thing as responsible breeding.

Horse crap.

Oh you have not seen all the abused birds!

Yes I have and I own three abused roosters.

You want to see something worse?

Go to an orphanage... Those are actually humans.

Study hard, be dedicated and enjoy breeding your birds and do the best you can.

Let parents raise them if they will and you will have better birds and happier customers.

One love

 

[Brittany0208]

I have a former breeder bird who has never encountered a toy until i adopted him. Sadly, almost a year layer, he is still afraid of everything and has no idea how to be a bird. He licks his cage bars for hours, afraid to explore his cage, stays in the same spot most of the day.
No doubt, being a breeder has crippled him. He was never given the opportunity to fly and therefore he never developed the muscles. Now that I have him, it's been an uphill battle to teach him to be a bird and not a machine.
He was neglected and treated like most breeder birds, and he's very much damaged from it. For 9 years, he was someone's project.
Now it's up to me (and time) to try to reverse the damage that has been done.

 

[Thenatural]

And you did well to save such a bird Brittney.

Not all breeders treat their stock like an alien hooked to a reproduction machine.

The ones that do I agree need to be put over someone knee.

This is why once again hand raising is flat wrong and breeders double clutch their hens and why they promote such a horrible practice and even shove unweaned babies down peoples throat to entice them to save a buck.

Yes breeders like this should be rounded up for they are causing great harm to bird and human.

However to say all out " breeding is wrong " because of shelter birds is wrong.

If not for breeders many animals snakes , birds and otherwise would be gone.

Its just money drives many to the brink of mental damn illness and whom doesn't want to quit their job at the quickly mart and have a nice round bum selling animal babies from the comfort of their lovely computer and lazy boy?

Dream come true, right?

I know and I wanted to be an oceanographer until I have watched someone get killed brutal by a great white.

There is a such thing as responsible breeding its just you don't make a living at it you do it for joy.

You leave it up to them.

Just like these hybrids.

No such thing as a bonded pair of hybrids as I have seen many separate and no loss of sleep.

Birds of a different feather do not reproduce out of love, they do it out of sexual frustration because the breeder gives them no choice.

So yes there are many horrible things going on in this hobby and others however the little guy with a pair or two of birds that likes to breed every once in a while is not the enemy to the hobby.

Breeders that double clutch their hens and hand raise feathered human terrors are however.

As I've told several face to face over the years.

Funny to watch a person jinn get them all grumbled up when you smack them with a truth bomb, however let's not classify all breeders the same.

One love

 

[Brittany0208]

There are some good breeders out there, but MOST only care for profit. These are the ones I despise. Breeding for conservation is good in my book, but not when the breeder forces their animal to pump out babies and have nothing to do with them otherwise.

 

[JLcribber]

Not all breeders treat their stock like an alien hooked to a reproduction machine.

Well you should come to America. 99% of them are horrible.

 

[tka]

I did get Leia from a breeder. The reason I got her from a breeder was because her species comes up very, very rarely in rescue in my country. Many of the birds in rescues here are African greys and cockatoos and I knew that as a complete bird novice, I would not be a good match for these challenging birds.

I chose her breeder because I liked his approach. He isn't a commercial breeder, he has only a few pairs, he keeps meticulous breeding records and he is involved with breeding networks in Europe to prevent inbreeding. The chicks are only handfed after 5-6 weeks with their parents. The chicks are always together and never kept in individual brooders. They fledge and live in an indoor cage with their parents, and have regular out of cage time to practice their flying skills. He is incredibly careful about who his babies go to. He answered every single question I had, no matter how dumb. I wasn't immediately in a position to take Leia home and she stayed with him until I was because he thought it was more important to wait for a good home than to make a quick sale.

I chose this breeder because I could see that he wasn't in it for the money or to churn out babies. He is very careful about giving the babies a solid start in life and to rear steady, confident, well-adjusted birds who know that they are birds. He and I are in regular contact and I hope that will continue throughout Leia's life.

Basically, if you want to breed, it is *essential* to think about what you can offer as a breeder. It is not enough to breed birds just because you love them. Do you have the skills and experience and knowledge to set babies up with a really solid start to life? How are you different from all the terrible breeders out there? Why should *you* bring birds into a world where too many birds are already in rescue or are abused or neglected? What are you going to do to prevent the birds you raise becoming another heartbreaking statistic?

 

[Thenatural]

Yes john most are.

They treat them like snakes in a Rubbermaid tote.

Nothing new under the sun except the last ten years it seems minds have been lost even worse.

I tell you a mentor of mine and it seems polish mentors have followed me my whole life.

Papuzia telewisja. From Warsaw look him up on YouTube.

My cousin has been keeping birds 50 years and stupid full of knowledge.

Breeders like this in the united states could change much.

He also talks of the harm of hand raising.

Its just money over here for sure but not for all.

Take Susan at Avalon, she is a breeder and one of the few you will hear no bad dirt on.

There are really good breeders out there however it starts by trying to help people have discernment on whom is and whom is not.

Not to beat the horse to death but when people stop buying hand raised and demand parent raised it will change this hobby in a drastic way and will absolutely get rid of the breeder for profit.

Its still in the hands as always of the customer educating themselves.

The net will not allow one to be dumb these days if they use it proper.

Hell three months of study on any subject and you can put yourself in the company of " expert" conversations.

People just have to use their heads for something other than a hat rack and learn to restrain also.

Trust me this problem is happening with all animals as one can see on the Craigslist.

Its enough to make one sick.

Sad stories and a price on their heads and then the next horses bum sells it again for two bucks profit.

No easy fix here but true education is still the best bet, not more laws to be enforced on those whom cause no direct harm.

Those that are causing harm? Then come what may and it always does.

Karma, and why you see many " breeder" come and go.

No escaping karma.

One love

 

[Matto]

Man people love to set unrealistic standards for breeders. Sure they could follow all the advice in this thread but there would be far fewer of them and the price of birds would double or triple.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Man people love to set unrealistic standards for breeders. Sure they could follow all the advice in this thread but there would be far fewer of them and the price of birds would double or triple.

Not so much unrealistic standards for breeder, but minimum standards for birds. Each breeder bird is no difference than our pets/companions. They are sentient being who feel just like our companions do. They are not machines and they are not inanimate - they are thinking feeling beings.

I have no empathy for the fools who say, "I love birds and I want to raise babies", without the slightest thought about how to raise them or protect them nor do they think of the birds' lifetime. Take a look at what backyard breeders have done to the dog population, the cat population, and the horse population - most of them breed junk and it just goes downhill from there. I'm most familiar with horses and there are so many very poor quality, badly bred horses out there that it is a crime. Because we don't have killer facilities, many of these horses just pass from here to there until they die from starvation and neglect.

I'm not against breeders, we have several good ones on this forum, I'm just deathly against the casual, I want to make money, or I just love little birdies breeders.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Millions of kids in orphanage also so should all stop having kids?

@Thenatural There are no orphanages in the US and there have not been for many years. Orphanges are proof that many people should be sterilized and not allowed to breed.

 

[Matto]

@Thenatural There are no orphanages in the US and there have not been for many years. Orphanges are proof that many people should be sterilized and not allowed to breed.

See, that's called eugenics and it's generally been frowned upon since the Nazis tried it.

 

[Hankmacaw]

See, that's called eugenics and it's generally been frowned upon since the Nazis tried it.

Take a look at the statistics and the news - then disagree that some should not be able to reproduce. 22 children per week (2015) in the US die from starvation, neglect or violence mostly perpetrated by their parents the very people who are supposed to protect and care for them. Eugenics is what Planned Parenthood practices - actually killing viable humans.

 

[Garet]

Yes breeders need toys! It's silly to assume that these intelligent creatures won't want toys. Triss is nesting right next to her favorite in-cage toy. Toys give her insensitive to get off of her egg and stretch her wings, which helps her keep her muscle tone up and gives her boys a chance to sit on the eggs. I think if you're going to breed these animals, you have to keep them active, healthy, mentally simulated AND happy.