Pictures New Rats - Not just pets

[riddick07]

Sounds like a similar situation to what I have going on here. I've got gerbils coming out my ears practically. My hawk bait gerbils mated and have been having babies continually since last year. They make a decent back up food source for my Harris's hawks for when the stock in my freezer starts to run a little low. Also good training for young hawks that have never caught anything. Always feel a little guilty about feeding them, but the hawks have to eat too. Its just what happens when you deal with obligate predators that don't do manufactured food well. Last weekend we went out and caught 2 wild voles and Frisbee was on the fast track to grabbing a couple wild mice before I called him down. Always nice when he catches his own food, but he still needs to eat on days I can't fly him. Plus, with wild mice, there is always a shadow of concern over rodenticide exposure. I just spent $216 having a bunch of frozen mice shipped to me. Ought to last 2 Harris's hawks most of the winter depending on how many rabbits and wild critters they catch.
I had one gerbil that my ball python rejected several years ago that lived to be 4 years old as a classroom pet. Lucky her that the snake ended up dying and I didn't have any other predators at the time.

I did a hawk walk and was fascinated by them but the training/certicfaction plus space needed was a lot. It would probably be worth it though!

Yeah Munch got insanely lucky that I had fed everyone else already and I don’t overfeed so no one was getting extra food that day.

I disagree. The ship has not sailed. Snakes, unlike dogs and cats are not so domesticated that they can't be allowed back into their native habitat. In fact, they are not domesticated at all. The big ones look at us as a potential meal and nothing more. I have read so many horror stories regarding large snakes, usually involving children. In most states it is illegal to own one. And we are talking about SIXTY snakes here!

Let me ask a question. What's the difference from owning a large python to owning a tiger?

If you really want to help snakes than get on your state legislator to pass a bill prohibiting the selling and buying of snakes in your state. Buying them only adds to the problem.

I could be wrong but I doubt that tortoises, lizards, and birds kill small children. Snakes get poached just like certain parrots have been. It was wrong with regards to the parrots and it is wrong with the snakes too.

Now I am going to get off my soapbox. The author has made her point, and I have made mine.

Not only are you hypocrite but you can’t even keep your word to stay off my threads...

Snakes cannot be returned. They have been exposed to captive animals that can harbor disease and parasites and other fun stuff that can destroy native wildlife. So any laws will just be death sentences to captive animals. Which I’m not sure you really care about so there’s that at least. Plus, you won’t be fixing anything, illegal trade and worse conditions will just be the go to instead for people. Laws on large constrictors were in play but were thrown out in court after a long legal battle. There are no longer federal laws on interstate commerce for these animals. Just to tell you the laws did squat anyway. You could still see a lot of people doing whatever they wanted and no one was really enforcing the law.

There are very few cases of large constrictors killing people in the states and there are a lot of large constrictors in the states. If they were as dangerous as you believe you’d be hearing a whole lot more stories. One of the ones I remember were drug addict parents that didn’t even have a lid on the really inadequate tank. They hadn’t fed it in a very long time because you know drug money was more important but hey. Comparatively you really should be asking dogs to be made illegal instead.

Now do at least try to keep your word this time.

I am not a snake Person at all, but I can appreciate them. When I was a kid, my Brother had a snake room, and bred his rats and mice for them. He left for college and they were given to a Zoo in NY. As for the controversy of feeding them the live food, not for me at all. I used to hate working in a pet store and People came in for feeder mice, rats, pinkies hated it all. I am glad you have an interest in them, but as an animal lover of warm blooded species that aren't reptilian I will stick to cute and fuzzy, feathered and fins!

I would NEVER sell a rabbit or guinea pig for food EVER. That was me too bad. As for the babies, I told People we are out of pinkies so they couldn't kill the wee little ones.

I know that snakes that are large will eat larger things............I cringe upon free ads for puppies and kittens because in many cases they meet this fate. I wish they didn't have to eat live things in captivity.


My story, the end.

I don’t feed live. I’m a frozen feeder and only have one live eater that won’t convert. Which means the rats will be ethuanized humanely before being frozen. All I have to say on this front is that I hope at the very least anyone arguing against live feeding is vegan.

I love my rats too but I’m not so removed from the cycle of life/death that it bothers me. Sure I wouldn’t want my personal pets to be food but only because they are my pets.

So all I’m hearing on the not selling front is that you would rather a snake starve to death slowly than the relatively quick death of the fuzzy animal. I do think live feeding rabbits is stupid if they will take frozen but only because rabbits can inflict some insane damage.

I know not a single snake keeper that will feed puppies or kittens. This is only a worry people have because a few jerks thought it amusing to record such an event. But those jerks will always exist and honestly dog fighting is a greater worry there. The quality (health/diet/cleanliness) of feeders that most people pay a lot of money for is much higher than some random Craigslist animal.

 

[riddick07]

Remember years ago when they came out with the “snake sausages” food-type things? Lol it was basically touted as an easier way for people to stomach feeding snakes...by seeing them eat a sausage (of ground rats) vs the rat itself. I don’t think they went over very well.
View attachment 290384

Lol yes. But it’s not like the animals still aren’t killed in the end, so I’m not sure why people thought that was easier! There are still reptilinks around. I’ve thought about trying one of their frog/lizard ones for my lizard eater because she’s so expensive on blue tailed skinks. I have a friend that uses the frog one for her hognose still. Frogs have so many parasites that a quality supplier can be so hard to find!

 

[Sylvester]

Not only are you hypocrite but you can’t even keep your word to stay off my threads...

Snakes cannot be returned. They have been exposed to captive animals that can harbor disease and parasites and other fun stuff that can destroy native wildlife. So any laws will just be death sentences to captive animals. Which I’m not sure you really care about so there’s that at least. Plus, you won’t be fixing anything, illegal trade and worse conditions will just be the go to instead for people. Laws on large constrictors were in play but were thrown out in court after a long legal battle. There are no longer federal laws on interstate commerce for these animals. Just to tell you the laws did squat anyway. You could still see a lot of people doing whatever they wanted and no one was really enforcing the law.

There are very few cases of large constrictors killing people in the states and there are a lot of large constrictors in the states. If they were as dangerous as you believe you’d be hearing a whole lot more stories. One of the ones I remember were drug addict parents that didn’t even have a lid on the really inadequate tank. They hadn’t fed it in a very long time because you know drug money was more important but hey. Comparatively you really should be asking dogs to be made illegal instead.

Now do at least try to keep your word this time.




Forgive me, I was replying to someone who had replied to me.

Yes, they are a dangerous animal. Not keeping them properly locked up in a household with youngsters is like not keeping a loaded gun properly locked up. I have a lovely little story about a tragedy that happened to a six year old boy and his sleep over friend in Canada.

They see us as a meal, nothing more.

Somebody was nice to your point of view and explained it to me in a PM. And for the first time I understood your point, but I am a little alarm that you, "the snake lover" doesn't agree that tougher legislation needs to be passed, and that these snakes are as gentle as a kitten.

You told me that a rat had mauled your cat. You don't think one of your snakes would do the same to your bird, if given the chance? They are cold blooded predators that should never ever be sold to anyone as a pet.

Dogs are not even in the same category. No puppy comes into the world wanting to kill people. Dogs are trained to become aggressive monsters by cruel people. The law needs to be tougher on the owners, not on any certain breed.

Now once again, I am gone. In fact, I am logging off. I won't be pulled in again by anybody's reply. Not even yours.

 

[SandraK]

IF I kept snakes and bred rats to feed to them I'd be in a worse state than I am with my bird flock. There's no way in Hades that I'm feeding Spot to Snafu - over my dead body!

 

[Jenphilly]

Not only are you hypocrite but you can’t even keep your word to stay off my threads...

Forgive me, I was replying to someone who had replied to me.

Yes, they are a dangerous animal. Not keeping them properly locked up in a household with youngsters is like not keeping a loaded gun properly locked up. I have a lovely little story about a tragedy that happened to a six year old boy and his sleep over friend in Canada.

They see us as a meal, nothing more.

Somebody was nice to your point of view and explained it to me in a PM. And for the first time I understood your point, but I am a little alarm that you, "the snake lover" doesn't agree that tougher legislation needs to be passed, and that these snakes are as gentle as a kitten.

You told me that a rat had mauled your cat. You don't think one of your snakes would do the same to your bird, if given the chance? They are cold blooded predators that should never ever be sold to anyone as a pet.

Dogs are not even in the same category. No puppy comes into the world wanting to kill people. Dogs are trained to become aggressive monsters by cruel people. The law needs to be tougher on the owners, not on any certain breed.

Now once again, I am gone. In fact, I am logging off. I won't be pulled in again by anybody's reply. Not even yours.

I was not going to post, just enjoying Victoria handing you your very misinformed behind... but once again you try to say you have this story about a 6 year old in Canada... nope, you don't, you seem to have forgotten that months ago when you tried to pull that crap argument you were not able to produce a single legit news reference for that story... Yet here you are still in your tiny little mind convinced it must have happened because you read it somewhere on the internet or you have created that story to try to make yourself feel you are correct in your gross misunderstanding of the facts...

Very seriously, I must ask if you read or review all of the posts by Victoria before you make some seriously asinine statements? You are babbling on about large dangerous snakes - "I have read so many horror stories regarding large snakes, usually involving children. In most states it is illegal to own one. And we are talking about SIXTY snakes here!" Ummm, have you seen all the photos, there is only snake in the home that you could be getting your panties in a twist over today. Many photos show the snake in her hand... many snakes are ball pythons or Beauty Snakes, other snakes are corn snakes, and then there is the itty bitty tiny Wolf Snake. With all arguments - educate yourself so you're not making statements about 60 dangerous snakes here when you are so far off it is downright amusing. As are your illegal to own statements, might be time to brush up on the laws, oh wait, you do not even live in the same friggin country, yet you try to make yourself out to be all knowing. Let me guess you read all those facts about laws and children being eaten on the internet, so must be true... as well as you presuming about what 60 snakes are being referenced.

Again, I so amused that you claim how deadly and dangerous snakes are compared to dogs... well, here you go, reread the STATISTICS by the CDC (hint, that is a US Government Agency that compiled these facts)....

I could just go on and on, but wait, been here before. You are not even presenting a new argument, nor are you even solid on your soapbox, your ability to try to duck and dive is almost with political prowess! But, I am digressing... Once again, let's share the actual statistics and facts about how dangerous snakes are in the US versus the dangers of dogs in the US. These are not guesses or suggestions, or something someone somewhere read on the internet, these are true verified statistics as compiled by the CDC. And again, as outlined previously, the snake tallies include native, venomous snakes in the wild - so in 2017 there were 5 deaths from snakes and those include rattlesnakes.

In 2017 there were 39 deaths by dog attacks. The statistics for dog bites in total become quite muddy, but going with numbers from the CDC, approximately 4.5 million dog bites occur each year.

Now looking up snake bite info, unfortunately there is not info about just 'pet' snakes, all snake bites are lumped together which include venomous snakes you might encounter while out hiking. But, let's not split hairs, let's use all those numbers, so we are talking about every snake bite period... Again, using CDC numbers, the average for snake bites in the US is between 7,000 and 8,000 with an average of 5 deaths. And what little info I can find about 'pet' snake deaths, they most often involve someone that keeps venomous snakes, which is a whole different ball of crazy versus keeping a giant snake.

The reality, the dangers of a large dog biting and killing or severely injuring you, or more importantly - a child, is much greater than a snake - even including the venomous snakes native to the United States.

Are you now going to start your tirade about the large snakes that have devastated Florida and how knuckleheads are responsible?? Even tho you recognize hurricanes are responsible for destroying breeders, suppliers and importer facilities and locations, you still blame 'knuckleheads' regardless what the facts are about how tens of thousands of large pythons ended up in the wilds of Florida.... go ahead, you know you want to... as much as you could not keep yourself from commenting on this thread, even tho you gave your word you would not, you know you can't help yourself... look I am even including a screenshot of your last 'snakes are the anti-christ' tirade so you can be sure you are regurgitating the same misinformation.

 

[riddick07]

I believe laws do jack. If people want to kill they will. If they want to own something they will. If they want to shoot up herione they will. If they want to go over the speed limit they will. If they want to get drunk and drive they will. People do what they want. Your best bet is true educational programs not laws.

I believe a kitten/cat is way more effective hunter than a snake. Snakes can go months without finding food because most want their prey to just walk on by. You bet that cat will have a pit of dead bodies going on in a few months just for the fun of it lol. Do I think snakes are cuddly no. Do I think they are overly dangerous no. I think people are idiots that can’t figure out how to use a cage and a lock correctly though. I also don’t think laws are going to make them any more intelligent. I’m not worried about my birds because I have figured out how a cage and lock works...miraculously...

IF I kept snakes and bred rats to feed to them I'd be in a worse state than I am with my bird flock. There's no way in Hades that I'm feeding Spot to Snafu - over my dead body!

I’m not exactly sure what thought you were trying to share here? Do you mean you’d be too emotionally attached or something along those lines?

 

[Jenphilly]

I believe laws do jack. If people want to kill they will. If they want to own something they will. If they want to shoot up herione they will. If they want to go over the speed limit they will. If they want to get drunk and drive they will. People do what they want. Your best bet is true educational programs not laws.

I believe a kitten/cat is way more effective hunter than a snake. Snakes can go months without finding food because most want their prey to just walk on by. You bet that cat will have a pit of dead bodies going on in a few months just for the fun of it lol. Do I think snakes are cuddly no. Do I think they are overly dangerous no. I think people are idiots that can’t figure out how to use a cage and a lock correctly though. I also don’t think laws are going to make them any more intelligent. I’m not worried about my birds because I have figured out how a cage and lock works...miraculously...




I’m not exactly sure what thought you were trying to share here? Do you mean you’d be too emotionally attached or something along those lines?

People go over the speed limit?? Seriously? When has that ever happened??

 

[riddick07]

People go over the speed limit?? Seriously? When has that ever happened??

Dudddeee don’t give us away

 

[riddick07]

Also I believe I deserve another giant for this annoying fest....burm?

 

[expressmailtome]

Everyone needs to please calm down. If you want, feel free to use the ignore feature.

 

[Jenphilly]

Everyone needs to please calm down. If you want, feel free to use the ignore feature.

Does the ignore feature prevent someone from posting on your threads?

 

[SandraK]

I believe laws do jack. If people want to kill they will. If they want to own something they will. If they want to shoot up herione they will. If they want to go over the speed limit they will. If they want to get drunk and drive they will. People do what they want. Your best bet is true educational programs not laws.

I believe a kitten/cat is way more effective hunter than a snake. Snakes can go months without finding food because most want their prey to just walk on by. You bet that cat will have a pit of dead bodies going on in a few months just for the fun of it lol. Do I think snakes are cuddly no. Do I think they are overly dangerous no. I think people are idiots that can’t figure out how to use a cage and a lock correctly though. I also don’t think laws are going to make them any more intelligent. I’m not worried about my birds because I have figured out how a cage and lock works...miraculously...




I’m not exactly sure what thought you were trying to share here? Do you mean you’d be too emotionally attached or something along those lines?

Having had hamsters as a child, my house would be overrun with tame, lovable rats and I'd have to feed the snakes cold, dead mice.

 

[SandraK]

Does the ignore feature prevent someone from posting on your threads?

The Ignore feature means that you won't see comments from people who've PO'd you in the past, however, the thread will give you the option to view posts from "People you Ignore". Don't ask how I know.

 

[riddick07]

Having had hamsters as a child, my house would be overrun with tame, lovable rats and I'd have to feed the snakes cold, dead mice.

Lol makes sense now! I can definitely see that happening and having quite a few pet rats too. I want the sweet personalities because no one wants to stick their hand in bitey rat cages no matter what haha. Having chosen dumbos to breed I foresee some keepers happening for sure! Especially dumbo boys. They are such dopey cute lumps.

 

[expressmailtome]

Does the ignore feature prevent someone from posting on your threads?

Sandra is correct. It only prevents you from having to see the other member's comments.

 

[Sylvester]

I was not going to post, just enjoying Victoria handing you your very misinformed behind... but once again you try to say you have this story about a 6 year old in Canada... nope, you don't, you seem to have forgotten that months ago when you tried to pull that crap argument you were not able to produce a single legit news reference for that story...
wait, you do not even live in the same friggin country, yet you try to make yourself out to be all knowing. Let me guess you read all those facts about laws and children being eaten on the internet, so must be true... as well as you presuming about what 60 snakes are being referenced.

Again, I so amused that you claim how deadly and dangerous snakes are compared to dogs... well, here you go, reread the STATISTICS by the CDC (hint, that is a US Government Agency that compiled these facts)....
















Python's strangling of 2 boys in Canada investigated - CBS News

All you had to do was search Google, but since you are so lazy, I did it for you. There is a another tragic story in Florida involving the killing of a child by a snake. Look it up yourself.

The author said she had sixtyish snakes. Why don't you read the every reply before you jump in? And she never corrected anybody when they repeated that number back to her.

My brother had a 21 foot python that he had to feed freeze dried rats to. The best thing he ever did for that animal was when he sold it to a Tucson zoo. They had a larger enclosure for the snake and could meet it's needs much better. My brother makes a lot of money and took good care of the snake, but even he realized it was not meant to be a pet. There are a lot of snake owners who are not as diligent and the snake suffers because of that.

You actually think I am impressed by that statistics you are quoting about dogs v. snakes. Of course there are going to be more records of dog attacks, since many more people own dogs than do snakes! Its like saying that more people are killed in car accidents than plane accidents.

She's not handing me anything. She couldn't make her case and neither can you. Rude people rarely make a dent on me.

 

[tka]

I kept pet rats a few years ago but found their short lifespans too hard to deal with. I don't think I could keep a snake myself - or, to be honest, any meat eating animal. I'm not quite vegan but am a strict vegetarian, mostly for animal welfare and ecological reasons.

I couldn't do what you're doing but I applaud you for rearing your snakes' food ethically. Too many feeder animals are born in horrible conditions and people seem to turn a totally blind eye to their welfare. At least you're ensuring that your feeder breeders aren't overbred, are fed a good diet, kept in suitable enclosures and have enrichment. I hope that the way you euthanise the feeder animals is quick and painless.

 

[SandraK]

Sandra is correct. It only prevents you from having to see the other member's comments.

And keeps one's blood pressure down ...

 

[Sylvester]

I am not a snake Person at all, but I can appreciate them. When I was a kid, my Brother had a snake room, and bred his rats and mice for them. He left for college and they were given to a Zoo in NY. As for the controversy of feeding them the live food, not for me at all. I used to hate working in a pet store and People came in for feeder mice, rats, pinkies hated it all. I am glad you have an interest in them, but as an animal lover of warm blooded species that aren't reptilian I will stick to cute and fuzzy, feathered and fins!

I would NEVER sell a rabbit or guinea pig for food EVER. That was me too bad. As for the babies, I told People we are out of pinkies so they couldn't kill the wee little ones.

I know that snakes that are large will eat larger things............I cringe upon free ads for puppies and kittens because in many cases they meet this fate. I wish they didn't have to eat live things in captivity.


My story, the end.

Great reply,LMZ.

And there lies the problem. There are way to many irresponsible snake breeders and owners out there. My local Walmart just had an incident where some guy picked up three kittens from a kid giving them away outside, and told his friend they were meant for his snake. Somebody overheard him and the whole place got into an uproar. The police were called and the guy was ordered to give the kittens back to the little girl.

 

[Sylvester]

Does the ignore feature prevent someone from posting on your threads?

You have it wrong. Python's strangling of 2 boys in Canada investigated - CBS News All you had to do was Google it, but I did it for you. There is another tragic story involving a snake and child in Florida. Google it yourself.

The author said she had sixtyish snakes in one of her replies. She would know.

Those stats of dogs v. snakes attacks means very little, since there are more people who own dogs than snakes. That's like trying to compare people who are in car accidents v. plane accidents.

My brother once owned a 21 foot python and fed it freeze dried rats. He made a lot of money and took excellent care of that snake, but even he knew it was not meant to be a pet. The best thing he ever did for that animal is when he sold it to a Tucson zoo where it had a larger enclosure, and it's needs were better met.

Snakes are not pets. There is no difference from owning a tiger and owning a large python. They are both unpredictable, both wild, and both dangerous.

And yes, in Canada, as in many states, it is illegal to own one. Please feel free to Google that one too.