New male budgie! What is the crustiness on his cere?

[Merovech]

Hi! I bought a friend for my other budgie, Data. His name is Spock. Like any good 'parent', I'm worried about the smallest thing. Could you tell me what the crustiness on his cere is? Should I be worried?

Thanks!

 

[Merovech]

Because I believe it might be scaly face, I bought and applied something to its neck that's supposed to help.

 

[PoukieBear]

It's hard to tell without a close up, but it could definitely be scaly face mites.

With any new bird in your home, please make sure to quarantine him, and get a full vet checkup done as well. Your vet will be able to diagnose him in person, and run tests for other common illnesses too.

 

[Lady Jane]

Its never a good idea to treat something with a bird without a diagnosis from an avian vet. It is hard to tell from a photo and I am not a medical person bird wise. How old is this bird? Its a good idea to take any new bird for a wellness check anyway.

He is a cutie little bird. Love the colors.

 

[Merovech]

Oh no! While they're in separate cages, they're right next to each other and have been for about 48 hours now. The pet shop (specialist avian pet shop, with inhouse vets) said that'd be no problem. She described quarantine for new birds as overly cautious. Furthermore, they recommended these anti-parasitic droplets every 6 months for birds. As such, they pretty much said that I should put a droplet in both Data's and Spock's neck, as Spock was showing signs of scaly face and Data was now 6 months old and needed her drop anyway.

Now I'm super sad that I did the wrong thing. Why is information about birds often so contradictory? Ugh, sorry guys. I only try to do what's best for my bird(s), which is why I got Spock in the first place.

 

[Budgiebonkers]

Oh no! While they're in separate cages, they're right next to each other and have been for about 48 hours now. The pet shop (specialist avian pet shop, with inhouse vets) said that'd be no problem. She described quarantine for new birds as overly cautious. Furthermore, they recommended these anti-parasitic droplets every 6 months for birds. As such, they pretty much said that I should put a droplet in both Data's and Spock's neck, as Spock was showing signs of scaly face and Data was now 6 months old and needed her drop anyway.

Now I'm super sad that I did the wrong thing. Why is information about birds often so contradictory? Ugh, sorry guys. I only try to do what's best for my bird(s), which is why I got Spock in the first place.

I never heard of giving them drops every six months if they have no mites to start with the only way they would contact it is wild birds or birds that have it already but since they are next to eachother I would watch out for the other one I once bought a parakeet that had such scaly face mites I didnt know what that even was at the time and she ended up dying from it i use ivermectin where you put it in their drinking water never tried drops

 

[PoukieBear]

Most vets aren't actually trained to deal with "exotic" pets, and for some reason this includes birds. Any good avian trained vet will recommend quarantine, no matter what. It's a small step that can save your other birds, especially if you have an entire flock.

For now, I would remove Spot and put him in his own area of the house for at least 30 days, and has a clean bill of health.

The drops that you are using are a good preventative measure against mites, but if Spock indeed does have an infestation, he will likely need more than just one treatment. (Also, the vets at this store should have seen this!) Please take him to an avian vet for a better diagnosis and treatment plan if needed.

You'll also need to clean and sterilize BOTH bird cages, top to bottom, including toys, perches, food and water dishes, everything. Mites can burrow into wooden perches, hide in tiny cracks, hang out in chew toys. Do this when you give the birds the drops, that way you'll kill off any potential pests.

 

[Lady Jane]

Sorry to say I would not go into or talk to anyone in that avian pet store. Was the license visible for this store's vets?
You have been giving very good advice and I strongly hope your birds stay healthy. One question on my mind is why would a pet store sell a bird that has a questionable looking cere?

 

[iamwhoiam]

Hope your bird will be OK. Do take him to the vet for a full exam. In fact, you may want to take both of them.
Quarantining new birds is always a good idea in case they have an illness. The new bird might look healthy but there could be an underlying disease that is not showing any symptoms. It's always a good idea to take a new bird to vet for a check up. Don't be upset with yourself. Surprised the store advised you that quarantine was not necessary.

 

[Archiesmom]

Wow, I'm surprised the store would say quarantining is not necessary, especially if they didn't send you with a health cert. that might have helped alleviate the need (it's always a good recommendation to do so anyway).
That's on them for giving you what I would consider bad advice. A check up with your avian vet should help clear up any questions and concerns.
Congratulations on your new fid!

 

[Fergus Mom]

@Merovech Awww - he's a cutie. I hope Spock will be okay! You are merely doing what you thought right, as told to you by the people you got him from. I hope that there is no reason for you to be sad, and I hope Spock will be much better soon! I don't have much experience myself, and I can use all the help I can get. Thank goodness for this forum, and people sharing.

 

[Merovech]

Hey everybody! Thanks again for your earlier advice. I went to a vet. She isn't specialised in birds, but she assured me that she's very knowledgable about birds. She agreed that it looked like Scaly Face and told me the Ivermectin treatment was the correct path. If the symptoms didn't clear up within 4 weeks, she simply said "if he doesn't show any other signs of stress or illness, don't be alarmed that this is simply the state of Spock's cere if it doesn't grow worse. You could try olive oil or an ointment."

Well, four weeks later and the cere is the same. Not worse, not better. I hate getting a second opinion above and beyond my vet, but what do you guys think? Overall he seems like a somewhat withdrawn but healthy bird and he interacts with my other bird well enough (who is very happy with Spock's presence!).



Please don't worry about the orange stuff below his beak on his feathers. That's simply him being a messy eater with his vitamin-dropped food.

 

[lotus15]

While what your vet said could be true, the fact that she recommended olive oil or an ointment gives me pause. I'm not sure why she'd recommend those things if she thinks that's "simply the state of Spock's cere." Personally, I would really want the opinion of a certified avian veterinarian.

I also wanted to just agree with the others in this thread who said that the advice you received from the pet store was really off the mark. Quarantine is not overly cautious, but totally recommended. Nor should you be administering anti-parasitic droplets every six months as a preventative measure-- they shouldn't be used at all unless there is a specific tradition you are trying to cure under the recommendation of an avian vet.

Spock sure is a cutie, by the way

 

[Merovech]

Yes, after reading your advice I made sure to quarantine Spock as best as I could for four weeks. I only put him in the cage of my other bird yesterday, as he did not show any signs that caused me to worry other than the state of his cere.

And thanks. He sure is a cutie.

P.S.

I should clarify that she proposed the olive oil or ointment as a means to make his cere less dry and to see if that would clear up anything, as it would be harmless as long as I would avoid the nares. I did not apply it yet as I do not want to cause Spock stress by grabbing him.

 

[Fia Baby]

There are some good articles and suggested treatments on-line if you look around. Many are for ivermectin products, but I also saw one for a home treatment using diluted grape seed extract (Beauty of Birds, I believe, you'll find it if you look around a bit). Successful treatment can take up to 8 weeks, from what I've read. If this is really mites, and you really can't know without a scraping, then you won't be able to let it go. They'll continue to do damage. Also, replace all wooden perches and keep the cage clean during treatment. They live on the bird, but can fall off into the cage/perch, and you'll want to be removing the scaley deposits as they're shed.

 

[Lady Jane]

You may get all kinds of recommendations beyond the one your vet gave you but I think your bird should really be seen by a certified avian vet. My vet does not charge an arm and a leg to take care of birds. Maybe you could find one that would accept a photo from you in e mail to aid in a diagnosis. I consulted with one of the best, Dr. Spear, in Calif. about a budgie I had with AGY. He was a big help and actually knew my vet. I have his e mail. Give me a minute and I will retrieve it for you.

By the way olive oil is too heavy an oil to be near the nasal passages of a bird. Coconut oil would be better.


Here is his e mail avnvet@aol.com

The Medical Center for Birds - Oakley, CA - This is where he practices

 

[PoukieBear]

Typically, an olive oil "Treatment" (I use that term loosly!) is for folks who don't have access to proper medication. When oil is put on the birds feet, beak and cere, it suffocates the mites. It's definitely not the most effective way to treat a bird, and I assume the vet is throwing this option out there, not knowing what it's truly meant to be for.

 

[Merovech]

Thanks again for all the advice! Being in western Europe, a vet in California is slightly too far to ride on my bicycle. However, I took your advice and decided to e-mail a specialised avian vet (still about 110km away) in the hopes that he can give a preliminary diagnosis based on the pictures. Perhaps based on that he can tell me if I should actually visit him.

 

[Lady Jane]

Cant you e mail someone in US?

 

[finchly]

Ivermectin is the proper treatment for scaley face mites and sinc your other budgie was exposed you need to treat them both. Furthermore, the recommended treatment is TWO treatments 21 days apart so that you kill off any eggs that were hatching around the time of the first treatment. If you do not feel they are gone you can safely do a third treatment.

I do not feel that oil is an effective treatment for mites. It is not recommended. If left untreated your bird can suffer greatly and die, so playing with oil as a ‘treatment’ is just too much of a risk.

The good news is that SFM can’t live off the bird’s body, so you don’t have to treat the cage or the room. Just the birds.