New food ok?

[Gddmsam]

Someone gave me this today, the date is good, but I'm not sure how healthy this is. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Boba is a lovebird. Thanks!
Sam and Boba

 

[Mizzely]

I'm not a fan of Hartz brand in general, it's about on par with Kaytee though in terms of nutrition.

 

[JLcribber]

It's run of the mill low grade cheap bird food. You can find much better.

 

[Gddmsam]

Thanks for the quick reply. I only feed him Harrison's prescription pellets and "lovebird and cockatiel" seeds. (He's learning to switch from the all seed diet he was on to a pellet based diet.) For treats he gets apple, brocoli, leafy greens, millet and very occasionally a few sun flower seeds.

 

[Monica]

For a lovebird, I would recommend a 50/50 base of seeds and pellets. Pellets may be too harsh on their kidneys and lead to kidney failure....

So 50/50 of seeds and pellets with plenty of fresh foods!

 

[Calpurnia]

For a lovebird, I would recommend a 50/50 base of seeds and pellets. Pellets may be too harsh on their kidneys and lead to kidney failure....

I'm really not trying to start an argument here. I'm just genuinely curious as to where you've gotten your evidence of this issue (pellets leading to kidney failure) from? I'd be interested in reading more about it.

 

[Monica]

I'm really not trying to start an argument here. I'm just genuinely curious as to where you've gotten your evidence of this issue (pellets leading to kidney failure) from? I'd be interested in reading more about it.

It's an issue most commonly seen in *small* species.... i.e. budgies, cockatiels, parrotlets, etc.

Here's a page for parrotlets...
Parrotlet Blog: Pellets & Color Mutation Parrotlets


On another forum (I think... BB?) there was an owner who jumped on the "pellet bandwagon" and fed their cockatiel an almost exclusively pelleted diet... cause, you know, pellets are so much healthier than seeds? Well, towards the end of his life (teens, plus), he had to be put on allopurinol due to kidney failure.


Here's this page for cockatiels and budgies...
Small Parrots in Health and Disease


Even my avian vet does not recommend feeding little birds more than 50% pellets. If it's a conure, pionus, poicephalus, psittacula, or larger, then pellets can make up to 75% of the diet! And seeds being a small portion of said diet. But for the little guys? Seeds are still recommended.

 

[BeeBop]

I'm not familiar with the brand, but with big chunks of pellets and sunflower seeds it seems it would be very easy to pick through. Likely they will pick out the seeds and leave most everything else. I would recommend like others said no more than 50% pellets. All seed or all pellet can both be bad in the long run. Variety is key. Grains, fruits, veggies, and/or mash/chop should be provided every day and varied throughout the week. Also I would recommend TOPs pellets. Good luck with your lovebird!

 

[LunaLovebird]

My vet recommends 80% pellets. Lovebirds are not the same as cockatiels or budgies, who are recognised as needing more seed than other birds. I've not heard of a vet recommending less than 60-70% for a lovebird.

I have started making my own seed mix to combine with their pellets. It consists of hemp seed, tricolour quinoa, chia, milk thistle seeds, and flax seed. They get sunflower and millet for treats.

 

[Monica]

Lovebirds may not be the same as cockatiels or budgies, but I still wouldn't recommend more than 50% of pellets for lovebirds.

Parrotlets are different to cockatiels and budgies, too. They come from South America, instead of Australia, and if a parrotlet is split to or is a visual mutation, then they should have 50% *OR LESS* of pellets in the diet. Heck, 25% might even be too much...

I know that lovebirds are an African species, too.

 

[LunaLovebird]

Lovebirds may not be the same as cockatiels or budgies, but I still wouldn't recommend more than 50% of pellets for lovebirds.

Parrotlets are different to cockatiels and budgies, too. They come from South America, instead of Australia, and if a parrotlet is split to or is a visual mutation, then they should have 50% *OR LESS* of pellets in the diet. Heck, 25% might even be too much...

I know that lovebirds are an African species, too.

My point in bringing them up is that cockatiels and budgies in the wild have diets that consist mostly of seed. It makes complete sense that they wouldn't do well on high amounts of pellet in their diet from that standpoint. Lovebirds on the other hand eat some seed, but also large amounts of fruit, berries, and leaves. You can't really compare them. I'm also not sure of the comparison to a particular mutation of parrotlet (although that is interesting, and I didn't know that).

Also worth noting (for the OP) that fresh vege and the like should be offered as more of a staple food rather than a treat.

 

[Gddmsam]

He won't eat them unless I make a big show of it (fresh veggies) I'm hoping that I can replace most of his diet with a chop and or mash in time.

 

[LunaLovebird]

He won't eat them unless I make a big show of it (fresh veggies) I'm hoping that I can replace most of his diet with a chop and or mash in time.

Lol. Typical lovebird. Just be wary of making it his entire diet also. The benefit of pellets is that you don't have to worry so much about if he's getting enough of vitamin/mineral xyz. If you are going entirely fresh, you need to go the extra mile to ensure that what he is actually eating (not just being given) forms a nutritionally complete diet. Not always easy. As you've seen, they're fussy things.

 

[Monica]

You might try some of the ideas in this thread.


Converting Parrots to a Healthier Diet - Tips | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[camelotshadow]

Really does not seem to be much in thatmix for a lovebird. The pellets are huge. I do see some sunflower seeds & safflower seeds.
Alot of that food is a space waster but guess you could use the sunflower & safflower seeds as treats.
Seems it does have some raisins & dried fruit. Has peanuts so be careful.

Hartz Bonanza Parrot Food, 4-lb bag - Chewy.com

 

[Gddmsam]

The vet suggested a chop or mash at about 50% the rest was 40% pellet, and 10% seeds ( treats not included)

 

[LunaLovebird]

The vet suggested a chop or mash at about 50% the rest was 40% pellet, and 10% seeds ( treats not included)

That sounds good, provided Boba is eating it. One thing that some members here do is to take out dry food in the morning and only offer chop / mash, then put the dry mix back after they've eaten breakfast. That ensures they eat a good portion of the fresh stuff, instead of just pigging out on dry food. I think you still might struggle getting to those percentages unless you're home all day to keep offering fresh food (you can't really leave it out all day), but I wouldn't worry too much. If he's eating a decent amount in the morning and evening, and has dry mix available during the day (I would encourage portion control here so he doesn't just eat the seeds), he'll be fine.

 

[BeeBop]

The vet suggested a chop or mash at about 50% the rest was 40% pellet, and 10% seeds ( treats not included)

That sounds like a really good diet! There are many, many ways to get a bird to eat vegetables. Number one advice is to be patient! And I have had lots of success with pretending to eat in front of your bird. For example I "ate" some of a cucumber slice and offered it to BeeBop. He took a bite out of the cucumber! Good luck with your lovebird!

 

[Calpurnia]

It's an issue most commonly seen in *small* species.... i.e. budgies, cockatiels, parrotlets, etc.

Here's a page for parrotlets...
Parrotlet Blog: Pellets & Color Mutation Parrotlets


On another forum (I think... BB?) there was an owner who jumped on the "pellet bandwagon" and fed their cockatiel an almost exclusively pelleted diet... cause, you know, pellets are so much healthier than seeds? Well, towards the end of his life (teens, plus), he had to be put on allopurinol due to kidney failure.


Here's this page for cockatiels and budgies...
Small Parrots in Health and Disease


Even my avian vet does not recommend feeding little birds more than 50% pellets. If it's a conure, pionus, poicephalus, psittacula, or larger, then pellets can make up to 75% of the diet! And seeds being a small portion of said diet. But for the little guys? Seeds are still recommended.

Yes I've seen these sorts of anecdotes but never any real studies to test whether the root of the issue (renal failure) was actually 100% directly caused by feeding pellets (for the record, what exactly IS it about pellets that causes this issue?). The vet reference you link mentions "probably" not 100% pellets. Okay that's totally fair, I don't think we would recommend 100% pellets for ANY species. I'm also familiar with Molenda's arguments. Every time she said "countless vets, biologists, and researchers" have told her that pellets are for sure the cause of renal failure in these mutation birds specifically. I guess I'm just frustrated that she can't actually provide sources for her "evidence".

I've read studies which identify genetic predispositions for kidney issues in 1-3% of small birds (tiels and budgies). I'd be interested to see whether or not the proportion of birds found with kidney issues after eating pellets is actually just this small fraction of birds that was already predisposed to the condition (in which case the pellets aren't the culprit). I also wonder how many of these small birds pass or acquire diseases from malnutrition before these kidney issues would have cropped up, making the feeding of more pellets the lesser of two evils in a sense.

I guess my biggest concern is urging people to feed less and less pellets when we already know that malnutrition or nutritional imbalances are the biggest health issue seen in companion birds. I.e. why worry about the slight chance of potentially developing renal failure if your bird is going to develop a fatty liver or vitamin/mineral deficiencies years before instead? The three good avian vets I've dealt with to date have agreed that they still see way too many cases of malnutrition each year (given the wide availability of pelleted diets and diet info nowadays). And none have recommended I feed our parrotlets less than 75% pellets for this reason.

I think it's easy for Molenda to scoff at pellet manufacturers who say that providing a balanced diet of fresh foods is "too hard for most people". But I think we all know of parrot owners who are NOT willing/able to provide cooked, sprouted, or fresh foods every single day. Not to mention, it's very difficult to say what a balanced diet looks like. Is quinoa + 3-4 veggies enough? What about beans + lentils + fruit? Even people who are willing to prep food for their birds are not always using 30 different exotic ingredients. What about the birds that won't eat everything you put in front of them?

It's a tough argument to make for sure. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Monica]

The belief is that pellets are very dry, and many of these small birds come from dry areas. (not all do, but?) The birds don't drink enough water to make up for the lack of moister in the pellets which eventually leads to kidney failure. That, or the pellets are too high in protein for the birds to handle.


I feel that, until we know for sure, it's better to er on the side of caution. People *should* be getting bloodwork on their birds and monitoring their levels. I do recall someone who had, if I recall correctly, a green parrotlet split blue. The bird was fed pellets as a small portion of the diet. The bird ended up having elevated kidney values. This supposedly didn't go away until the bird was put into a new home that removed pellets from the diet completely and worked on more fresh foods for the bird.


It would be great if the studies were out there for us to read, but they aren't. If they are, they aren't easy to see. I wonder if my a-vet might have any information I could get from her in regards to the diet issue and little birds?