Nesting- do I stop her?

[Laurul Feather Cat]

The great egg debate... As John said, the bird will go through their hormonal cycle every year. You have to decide if you are going to fight the hormones or just roll with the punches. Myself, I let my birds do what they want to do and this includes mating and laying fertile eggs if such occurs. I then abort the fertile eggs and allow them to sit on either duds or replacement eggs until they give up trying to hatch them. When the cycle is over for the year, we go back to our usual pet and parront relationship.

So. Are you going to be a fighter or an enabler? I find the enabling so much easier on both the bird and me.

 

[rocky'smom]

The other tiels, if/when they laid, their eggs would always end up cracking and breaking because they were laid from a perch. There would be one or two eggs laid like this, a max of three eggs, and that was that. Life went on. They never thought to lay in the food dishes (kind of small to be laying in anyway...) and they didn't have any other place to lay them...

same here @Monica the only saveable egg that Sweet Pea has laid was in my hand(now in the frig, want to show it to my great nephews).

 

[rocky'smom]

spoke too soon, she laid a egg tonight and it isn't broken.

 

[rocky'smom]

@Monica
I spoke toooooooo soon, she laid that egg tonight. it didn't break so mom is going use the let her nest this time. I have shallow container that I will put eggie in, in the morning. she more interested in playing with them then sitting on them.

 

[Monica]

Question is, what are her triggers to egg laying? She's gotta be laying for a reason.

 

[rocky'smom]

@Monica
I think it's 2 factors, light and boy (male) in the hood. the light I can reduce down by 2 hours. the boy in the hood is stuck here permanent. he has never been out at the same time that she is. they are in separate cages. but they can see each other and hear the other. and he is a boy, heart wings and whistles all day long. any ideas??

 

[Monica]

If reducing her light hours doesn't help, you may need to do the opposite... increase them.


Maybe try swapping cages between them? And make sure that the toys and perch placement *are* different. Moving the cages to another area, too, if you can?

 

[rocky'smom]

ok dokey, right now I think I will move him back to other side of the living room. I was hoping to keep all the their messy walls and the alike to one area. easier for mom to keep it clean. swapping cages will be last resort, because I am just making head way with this little dude. he actually comes to see mom and accept scritches without biting.

 

[Beth In Alaska]

It's up to you though. Do you want to allow her to go through the cycle? Or do you want to try and prevent her from going through the full cycle?

Welll @&$-ed if I know...I guess I want what is better for her?

 

[Beth In Alaska]

I don't let them have a cavity until I "know" there is going to be an egg.

If she is determined enough and you take away the drawer she will just find somewhere else to nest.

I can't imagine where.

Actually.... this morning I went to wake them up and she was sleeping ON POPPERS BACK.

So maybe there.

 

[Jaguar]

I can't imagine where.

Actually.... this morning I went to wake them up and she was sleeping ON POPPERS BACK.

So maybe there.

Hanging upside down from the top of the cage? That's how my mom's cheekies sleep lol

I wouldn't discourage her from nesting now, but I would try to change any environmental factors that could be making her so nesty in the first place. I think avoiding it completely is a pipe dream, or an uphill battle against nature in the very least. Give it some time and hopefully you'll be able to find what makes her tick and try to steer her away from chronic/excessive hormonal behavior.

 

[Monica]

ok dokey, right now I think I will move him back to other side of the living room. I was hoping to keep all the their messy walls and the alike to one area. easier for mom to keep it clean. swapping cages will be last resort, because I am just making head way with this little dude. he actually comes to see mom and accept scritches without biting.

Maybe move Sweet Pea instead?

I can't imagine where.

Actually.... this morning I went to wake them up and she was sleeping ON POPPERS BACK.

So maybe there.

Well, green cheeks are cuddlers! Even if it means with other birds! LOL Sounds like Popper doesn't mind her too much at least?


It's hard to say what would be best for each hen as each hen can be different. I know that being hormonal all the time and wanting to breed and nest isn't healthy for them, and many people set their birds up for this exact type of behavior without even realizing it. We feed them a rich diet, we control their day and night hours, the temperature and so many other factors. Warm, moist foods? There's another trigger! Essentially, when we try to strive well to take great care of them, we could be setting them up for unwanted behaviors. Not to say that you should take care of them to a lesser degree, but changing the environment can help to control their behaviors.

I don't go by any strict 12/12 day or night schedule. My birds follow the schedule of the sun.

My birds aren't kept at a constant temperature year round. This is actually unintentionally, but I don't have birds trying to lay eggs in the middle of winter, either, so I'm not apt to change it. (some species do breed in winter though! depends on where they come from)

My birds may get moist, fresh/cooked foods, but it's never fed warm.

I try not to provide an over-abundance of protein rich foods.


Tomi Girl was well on her way to becoming a chronic egg layer when I took her in. I've had no issues with her laying a ton of eggs.

I may have also taken in another female tiel (hard to say which one but I have my suspicions - received a family of 4, 2 males, 2 females, parents and offspring) that could have been laying chronically, but no major issues there, either.



Maybe I've just been lucky, too, and I don't have any die-hard egg layers?

 

[Beth In Alaska]

Hanging upside down from the top of the cage? That's how my mom's cheekies sleep lol

I wouldn't discourage her from nesting now, but I would try to change any environmental factors that could be making her so nesty in the first place. I think avoiding it completely is a pipe dream, or an uphill battle against nature in the very least. Give it some time and hopefully you'll be able to find what makes her tick and try to steer her away from chronic/excessive hormonal behavior.

No, Actually sitting on poppers back. He's a Saint for not eating her.

I think she is eating too much fat and calcium and its too warm and I increased the light hours so she could spend more time flying around the house. I can fix all that.

 

[Laurul Feather Cat]

Monica, the ONLY reason birds lay eggs is because that is their purpose in life: to repopulate the species on the face of the earth. A belief in a higher power means the hen was created just for that reason and the cock just so they could fertilize the egg and help the hen when the young hatch. The purpose of life is to create more life. That is all there is to it.

Yes, some birds can be influenced in their frequency and amount of egg production and if one wants to do that, fine, go ahead. But my point is the hormonal cycles that dictate when and how the hen produces her eggs is not something in human control unless we do as we do with our mammal pets and remove the reproductive organs. A hen who has never seen a cock bird will lay because their hormones tall them to do it. Period. Many scientists believe this is because partenogenisis is possible even in higher animals and young will still be produced despite not having access to a male. Even one in 183,000,0000 human birds is a "virgin" birth, meaning no male was needed to produce the living child.

It is much nicer, I feel, for my birds if I allow them to be what the Goddess designed them to do; live as bonded pairs and produce eggs. It makes them happy. It makes me happy because I get to watch and participate in their normal wild behavior.

Time for me to quit posting about this for a while. I am getting didactic.

 

[Monica]

Yes, some birds can be influenced in their frequency and amount of egg production and if one wants to do that, fine, go ahead. But my point is the hormonal cycles that dictate when and how the hen produces her eggs is not something in human control unless we do as we do with our mammal pets and remove the reproductive organs.

There's nothing natural about living within captivity, and I feel that many people unintentionally set their birds up to be ramped with hormones. Why do you think there are so many aggressive parrots out there? We teach them to love humans instead of other birds. We pet them inappropriately. We feed them a rich diet that would be ideal to raise chicks on. We feed them warm foods, telling them that we can provide for them. We often provide places for them to nest, even if unintentionally. We give them happy huts, coconut toys, or similar items that can feel nesty for hens.

We end up with many "one person birds" because the birds were not taught how to socialize. They were not given much, if any, direction. They were just supposed to be pretty pets that talked.

Even one in 183,000,0000 human birds is a "virgin" birth, meaning no male was needed to produce the living child.

I know it has happened in finches, lovebirds and cockatiels. Where-in a single female bird laid eggs and one of them happened to hatch. No chance of a male around. There's a possibility of one such occurrence happening earlier this year in Canada. The owner assumed the chick must be a hybrid because they have a female lovebird and a budgie. Only birds. And the female lovebird had a chick! Welp... definitely not a hybrid!

It is much nicer, I feel, for my birds if I allow them to be what the Goddess designed them to do; live as bonded pairs and produce eggs.

I guess that's kind of where we think differently... I mean, if you *really* wanted to allow them to live as they were "intended to live", then you wouldn't be preventing them from being able to raise chicks. I know you have allowed them to in the past, but you no longer do.

It seems silly to me to make that statement, but then not allow them to actually go through the *full* cycle of raising chicks, too.

This not even taking into consideration the fact that not all parrots make great parents, or that not all sexually charged parrots are interested in mating with their own kind. There are plenty of parrots who are stuck wanting to lay eggs or to mate with another, but have no interest in a species of their own kind. They want to have a family with a human... but humans cannot fulfill that desire. And this being after we set them up to be this way.

I remember reading several years ago when owners would get excited about their parrots regurgitating for them because it meant that their birds "loved them", and other people being jealous because their birds didn't regurgitate for them. Me? NO THANK YOU! And these people who allowed their birds to regurgitate for them not even realizing the potentially sad fate that they were setting their birds up for... that is, one of an aggressive, one person bird. I don't personally feel that that is a healthy mentality for any bird to be in.



But I believe our views will always differ here.

 

[Laurul Feather Cat]

You have your way of looking at birds living in captivity and I have my beliefs and probably never the twain will meet. However, please let me point out that allowing all of my birds to breed unrestricted would add significantly to pet bird over population and I will not do that. It is why I stopped breeding. Also, it is shown in a flock of twenty to thirty cockatiels in the wild, the entire flock is lucky if three of the season's babies survive to breed the next year. So frequent and catastrophic loss of eggs and also not allowing them to hatch live young is perfectly normal for wild breeding birds. Studies do not show it is physically or mentally detrimental to our pet birds when they do not produce any live young during the breeding season. I obsessed on that when I first stopped allowing my birds to hatch their eggs. I wondered if the hens got depressed like women and some other mammal females did when they were unable to produce babies. My avian vet found studies that indicated the birds seemed able to shrug it off when no chicks hatched and their eggs disappeared suddenly. Everything I do with my birds I have discussed and agreed with my Avian Vet. It is the best I can do for them. Would it have been better for them to never have been hatched in captivity? Probably. But you cannot change the past.

As I said, I get too wrapped up in these discussions and at some point I need to police myself and stop the discussion. I am at this point right now. Neither of us is wrong. Neither of us is right. It just is as it is.

 

[Monica]

I do understand the reasons why you don't allow them to hatch eggs. I just find it silly to say that statement but then not allow them to hatch their eggs.

It's just one more thing about captivity that wouldn't happen in the wild. Yes, tragedies do occur in the wild, but again, that's the wild, not captivity. Captivity, where we can increase the chances of survival, potentially increasing their expected lifespan, cure them of many ailments, try to prevent predation and so much more!


Birds have it lucky though.... I mean, at least bird keeping isn't quite as horrendous as fish keeping is... although they both have their upsides and downsides.