• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Need help in the Tampa area

MacEnthusiast

Meeting neighbors
Joined
10/30/16
Messages
70
Location
Highland, CA
Real Name
Daniel
I've refrained from the subject of my fiancees B&G because it isn't my bird, but things are starting to get worse with Bo's behaviors. Let's start with a little backstory. I was looking to adopt an African Grey and happened upon one online that seemed incredibly neglected. After reaching out to the individual, I learned that she also had a B&G macaw and that she has had both of them since they were hatched in 1999. Being inexperienced with larger birds, I was planning to be picky about the bird I bring home. I wasn't planning to take on a project bird, let alone two, and was willing to look around until I found a match. Unfortunately, the situation was that I had two very neglected birds living at an animal hoarders house and we couldn't leave them in those conditions. In the end we opted to bring both of them home immediately, got them cleaned up, set up with new cages and toys, a vet visit, and onto an acceptable diet.

At first, I was looking for a new home for them, but with time they seemed to warm up to us. Both birds ended up bonding with my fiancee and he decided to take them in as pets. The CAG (Ruby) is happy, well adjusted to the environment, and healthy aside from a couple feather issues we're working through. However, Bo hasn't been so successful at acclimating.

She almost immediately bonded to Greg (my fiancee) and became obsessively clingy with him. She freaks out over anything that would even imply that Greg is walking away or leaving. If he stands up, she freaks out. If he moves, she freaks out. If he leaves the room for even a second she freaks out. We had to go so far as to have me hold a blanket up while he walks away so that she doesn't see him leave in order to keep her from having scream fest. It's also not a normal scream, and isn't that loud by macaw standards, but it sounds like abject fear. We've been able to control this behavior by knowing what sets her off and how to avoid it, but lately she has been getting progressively worse. When she's out of the cage she'll get spooked by the tiniest movement, or change in the environment. In the cage, she'll start yelling and frantically rubbing her beak against the cage bars. This has even happened in the middle of the night.

I know from her past that the owner ignored Bo almost entirely, and gave Ruby all of her attention. She was malnourished, ignored, without clean food or water and covered in her own feces. We also believe that her owner would beat her with a glove when she got noisy. I'm sure she has a lot of anxiety and abandonment issues, but we've been unable to break through it and I don't have any experience rehabilitating a parrot.

Are there any local resources or experienced parrot owners in the Tampa area who we could reach out to as a resource? How do you think we should proceed with Bo's training, and what kind of time commitment do you think it will require?

Edit: I uploaded photos of their home with their previous owner.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Newbie GCC

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
4/12/14
Messages
4,706
Real Name
Heather

Newbie GCC

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
4/12/14
Messages
4,706
Real Name
Heather
How long have you had these birds? Have they had a full vet checkup? Do they both have toys and things to do in their cages? Sorry for all of the questions, but those pictures are scary. Thank you for taking them in. My experience is in small GCC's. Rhoma was about a 6 month process to "trust", while others have gone shorter periods and still others have gone longer. Neither of mine are screamers however.
 

MacEnthusiast

Meeting neighbors
Joined
10/30/16
Messages
70
Location
Highland, CA
Real Name
Daniel
How long have you had these birds? Have they had a full vet checkup? Do they both have toys and things to do in their cages? Sorry for all of the questions, but those pictures are scary. Thank you for taking them in. My experience is in small GCC's. Rhoma was about a 6 month process to "trust", while others have gone shorter periods and still others have gone longer. Neither of mine are screamers however.
We've had them for about 6 months now. They have toys but they are due for some new ones soon.
 

Macawnutz

Seriously Nutz!
Super Administrator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/21/11
Messages
32,900
Location
Wisconsin
Real Name
Sarah
How about some pictures of her current setup? Doe she have a playstand to be out when you guys are home? Is she able to be handled by either of you, both of you? Does she accept toys, treats? What's her diet like?
 

MacEnthusiast

Meeting neighbors
Joined
10/30/16
Messages
70
Location
Highland, CA
Real Name
Daniel
How about some pictures of her current setup? Doe she have a playstand to be out when you guys are home? Is she able to be handled by either of you, both of you? Does she accept toys, treats? What's her diet like?
She has a living room perch but she just sits there petrified and freaks out at any change in her environment. Only Greg can handle her, and will accept treats. However, she is not motivated by treats and you can't bribe her to do something. She likes the toys in her cage but is not at ease outside and will not play outside of her cage. She is on Zupreme fruit blend and we give her some fresh produce... Her past owner fed her dog food.
 

Attachments

Hankmacaw

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avian Angel
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
1,000,001
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
I'm not much of a behaviorist and it sounds like Bo has some real mental issues. She has been abused, neglected and starved. Those are difficult barriers to get through. It will take tons of time (years) and even more patience to get her where the world is not a terrifying place to her. My Hank (died in 2012 after I had had him for 15 years) was physically abused for ten years before I got him. It took six years before we became best buddies and even then if he became scared or upset he would lose it. I would just have to reassure him and step back and let him work through it. He was never a screamer but he viscious when I first got him.

Bribery many times works wonders and you (Daniel) will probably have to restrict your attention to treats and sweet talk for a long, long time. Greg needs to give her a lot of attention, both ambient and hands on. She needs to be allowed out of the cage and to go with him a lot. He needs to tell her when he is leaving and give her a treat and be told that he will be back - then he needs to go and not come back immediately, but within just a few minutes and give her more sweet talk and a treat. If she learns that he will always come back, it will help.

She really needs more perches in her cage - my bird has five perches. She also needs a lot more toys and you need to find out what she will play with.

I'm sure that someone with a lot better behavioral experience will be on to help you.
 

MacEnthusiast

Meeting neighbors
Joined
10/30/16
Messages
70
Location
Highland, CA
Real Name
Daniel
I'm not much of a behaviorist and it sounds like Bo has some real mental issues. She has been abused, neglected and starved. Those are difficult barriers to get through. It will take tons of time (years) and even more patience to get her where the world is not a terrifying place to her. My Hank (died in 2012 after I had had him for 15 years) was physically abused for ten years before I got him. It took six years before we became best buddies and even then if he became scared or upset he would lose it. I would just have to reassure him and step back and let him work through it. He was never a screamer but he viscious when I first got him.

Bribery many times works wonders and you (Daniel) will probably have to restrict your attention to treats and sweet talk for a long, long time. Greg needs to give her a lot of attention, both ambient and hands on. She needs to be allowed out of the cage and to go with him a lot. He needs to tell her when he is leaving and give her a treat and be told that he will be back - then he needs to go and not come back immediately, but within just a few minutes and give her more sweet talk and a treat. If she learns that he will always come back, it will help.

She really needs more perches in her cage - my bird has five perches. She also needs a lot more toys and you need to find out what she will play with.

I'm sure that someone with a lot better behavioral experience will be on to help you.
There used to be more perches in her cage, but she didn't like them. She wouldn't use them and would angrily try to get rid of them or knock them off. We still have them, but she's very set in her ways.
 

Lady Jane

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/25/12
Messages
26,569
Location
Maryland
Real Name
Dianne
I am not a Mac person but I can see how barren her cage is. Perhaps she needs different types of natural wood perches and toys. TNT bird store is a wonderful place to get Macaw safe toys and perches. Remember it will take years to get her back. What are your expectations?
 

Macawnutz

Seriously Nutz!
Super Administrator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/21/11
Messages
32,900
Location
Wisconsin
Real Name
Sarah
You don't have a good setup for a scared bird. That main perch is always on display and she has no where to go to get away if she needs too.

I suggest a rope perch. Hang it from the top of the cage to the side in an L shape in the back corner. Give her enough head room and tail room to be back there. She will love it. Put a main large toy at the front of the cage so she can have her own area back there for sleep and if she wants it.

You also need another area outside of her cage. I suggest a xlarge java tree or jumbo atom. Both close enough to her cage that you can open the door to her cage and she can let herself out if she wants to.

She needs trust, stability and kindness. You need to have an endless supply of patience. They are very strong and can work past the trauma.
 

MacEnthusiast

Meeting neighbors
Joined
10/30/16
Messages
70
Location
Highland, CA
Real Name
Daniel
You don't have a good setup for a scared bird. That main perch is always on display and she has no where to go to get away if she needs too.

I suggest a rope perch. Hang it from the top of the cage to the side in an L shape in the back corner. Give her enough head room and tail room to be back there. She will love it. Put a main large toy at the front of the cage so she can have her own area back there for sleep and if she wants it.

You also need another area outside of her cage. I suggest a xlarge java tree or jumbo atom. Both close enough to her cage that you can open the door to her cage and she can let herself out if she wants to.

She needs trust, stability and kindness. You need to have an endless supply of patience. They are very strong and can work past the trauma.
We have a perch that we can take her to but we are planning to invest in more perches for every part of the house. Our two B&G's have their own entire room to themselves right now, and we put a blanket over one side of her cage and leave the other side open so she has somewhere to hide. I love the idea of a large toy and a secret perch spot though!
 

Macaw Lover

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
1/29/10
Messages
3,970
Real Name
Renee'
Mary Lynn is right that it will take a long, long time and about Greg telling her that he is leaving and will be back. Greg needs to ask her if it is ok that he go do XYZ, that he will be back.

Macaws will have a have a shorter, lower level fear squawk and when she does it, reassure her everything is ok, that she is ok, and just get in the habit of telling her before you do something what it is you are about to do.

Greg should also get a small toy, such as a whiffle type ball, one of those plastic things with the wholes in it and Greg should start playing with it, say tossing it a little in the air, getting excited in catching it, even rubbing it against his (Greg's) check, maybe even going 'Wheee' in an excited animated way to get Bo's attention. Then offer the toy to Bo to play with. If Bo takes it, get excited and animated once again telling her what fun it is to play with it, that sort of thing. The more foolish you look, the better job you are doing.

Generally, Macaws don't like to be ignored, they want to be part of the mix in everything that is going on. If Bo is not interested in playing with that toy, try another or turn your back on her when sitting directly in front of the cage and then start playing again with it. Any interest yet, as in looking around the back to see what Greg is doing/playing with? That is the break through you want to see with the toys.

Sing soft love songs to her, baby rhyme songs, that type of thing. If she sits on you, do that also while she is on you. If Greg is the only one that she will sit on, he can do that but that could be something only you could do to try getting her to relax with you and maybe gain some acceptance with.

Macaws love making noise and the stainless steel toys work well for that. Avian Stainless (owned by Doris) is a vendor here and are great toys, just look for the large ones for Bo.

Kalea loves to ring her tubular type bell also. That bell is positioned where she can stand on her perch, insert a toe into the bell and gently ring it while her head looks back around to see if I am looking as she rings it. She knows I enjoy hearing her ring her bell and will tell her that too. This is the type I am referring to bell toys and noise makers for parrots

One thing that needs to be brought up as it is a health concern. Macaws are susceptible to the dust produced by the dusty birds which are Cockatoos, Cockateils and African Greys. The disease is called Respiratory Hypersensitivity and Bo could be affected by this seeing she was housed with a Grey. This can be a fatal disease for the bird and should not be taken lightly.
 

Macawnutz

Seriously Nutz!
Super Administrator
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/21/11
Messages
32,900
Location
Wisconsin
Real Name
Sarah

macawpower58

Flying along the Avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avian Angel
Shutterbugs' Best
Joined
8/25/11
Messages
1,000,000
Location
Pennsylvania
You had good advice here. Time and patience is the biggest thing Bo needs. I am not really experienced with such emotional trauma that Bo is displaying, so I hesitate to offer concrete advice.
There are those (hankmacaw for one) that have dealt with it.

Common sense though says you should not expect big changes quickly.
I also like Sarah's advice about a perch that is not 'on display'.

You may see progress, then huge backslides.

Bo definitely needs you and your fiancee.


 
Last edited:

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
11,253
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica

JLcribber

@cockatoojohn
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Shutterbugs' Best
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/16/09
Messages
22,620
Location
Alberta, Canada
Real Name
John
I'm sure she has a lot of anxiety and abandonment issues, but we've been unable to break through it and I don't have any experience rehabilitating a parrot.
Well Daniel I'm so glad to took it in your heart to help this bird. You have a very (classic case) phobic bird that was caused by neglect and abuse. It does take a lot of experience to take on a challenge like this (they don't come any bigger).
what kind of time commitment do you think it will require?
This will be basically be a full time job for the rest of your (and the bird's) life with a LOT of overtime for many month/years in the beginning.

What can happen when you do commit to the task of working with a phobic bird? While love, compassion and good intentions are a necessity, those things in themselves may not be enough. You must be prepared for a prolonged journey that will most likely be inconstant and disheartening. Testing your patience to the limit while draining you emotionally. There will be days when you feel void of any optimism, and other times when you are inspired to continue your efforts because the bird showed the slightest gesture of trust. One moment you want to shout your anger aloud asking “Why?” and the next your heart cries tears of despair for the precious creature who did nothing to deserve such a fate.

Disappointment is not a word that can be part of this process if we are to maintain the proper perspective, even though the wish for our bird to recover is totally selfless. There can be no timetable, nor can we have any expectations of a truly phobic bird. Each sign of improvement should be considered a gift. A reward for our diligence and for our willingness to accept whatever they are prepared to offer at that time. We must treasure the faith shown in us when any overture is made.

Throughout this entire process, it is necessary to remind ourselves that what works today may or may not work tomorrow, and that the behavior of a seemingly improved phobic bird can digress for no identifiable reason. Time alone will answer the lingering question if a formerly phobic bird will/has completely and permanently recovered.

You have an immense challenge ahead. In order to begin the healing process, it is critical for the bird to feel as confident as circumstances allow and in control of his or her life and surroundings. In multiple-bird homes, this recovery may be aided over time by observing fellow avian flock members interacting happily and positively with the human flock. A relationship involving some form of regular verbal or physical contact between the phobic bird and another bird may also prove beneficial whether this is merely an amicable coexistence or a close kinship.

One of the prime difficulties we encounter is recognizing subtle signals that indicate a bird’s willingness or receptiveness to advance. While we want to stimulate behavioral progression, we need to pace our own actions to those of the bird. For example when a phobic bird develops enough trust to make the slightest move toward a hand or arm, our inclination is to slowly reach out for them, speaking softly with words of reassurance. This may actually backfire. An alternative approach is simply to remain still offering only verbal encouragement, allowing the bird to maintain control and come to us, if and when it is comfortable doing so.

There's only one way to build trust. That is to earn it and that takes a lot of time. There are no shortcuts.

https://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_ab...enrichment/PS 19 1 Feb 07 Parrot Trust SM.pdf


 

Lady Jane

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/25/12
Messages
26,569
Location
Maryland
Real Name
Dianne
Excellent advise post J.
 

Macaw Lover

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
1/29/10
Messages
3,970
Real Name
Renee'
John, you are so on point when you talk about a bird that watchs the interactions of another bird's interactions with their human.

Donovan did that, and saw how I interacted with Kalea and how she got tons of hands on, kisses, cuddles and just being loved on. He saw that and wanted in on it too. I saw him watching and could read his mind saying 'I want some of that'.

 
Top