My Quaker has severe liver disease :(

[Slic102]

I fixed it Lisa.

LOL, thanks!

 

[Slic102]

I think that most of you know why I'm not as active here, if not, suffice it to say I got burned badly on another forum that I was a long time senior mod at. I'm starting to feel more comfortable here now and will try to become a more active member, because there is so much knowlege here, not to mention you all always welcome me back with open arms and that means a lot to me, when I've only been coming on here to share when I get a new bird or have a sick one. What can I say? This is an amazing place and the only bird forum I'd even consider going to!!!

 

[Katana]

That is great news! Enjoy your time with Simon at home! I'm sure he will be so excited to be back at home....

 

[parrotluv]

Lisa, are you going to ask about the zinc poisoning testing? This is very important! If not at least put him in another cage until you know for sure.

 

[Slic102]

To be totally honest, since I've had 2 vets, and Dr. Burkett review his tests and records, I'm not asking for any more tests. After all I've heard about Dr. B, I am quite comfortable with the diagnosis. I have at one time had him tested for heavy metal poisoning and it was negative. (he had an infection),but with the xray not showing in sort of unsual things (the test before showed some foriegn object there which is why he was tested) I see no reason to request yet one more test! There is just nothing in his cage that is bare metal. He is in a fairly new cage so I'm not getting why I'd put him in a different cage. In fact, I actually managed to drag my happy butt out the back door with the HUGE cage which was a MAJOR feat for me since I have fibromyalgia, and am usually in pain. It's been pressure washed, every toy and perch have been cleaned and sanitized with a steamer, and it's all ready for him to come home tonight!! (and I can't wait!!!)

 

[Nikki]

Hi Lisa I'm so happy that your little guy is doing better! A few weeks ago my quaker was hurt and my doctor put him on antibiotics plus a nutrition complex - Cold Due Liver, it is supposed to be really good for the liver. You might want to ask Dr. B about it or I can call my vet and get more information on it for you tomorrow or Monday.

 

[all4stvoyager]

I am so happy that he gets to come home for awhile. Hopefully he will have some better days!

I am in the HEB area. Yep, I know Barbara...she's a bit gruff, but if you draw her out she's pretty nice. I usually only want her to do my birds nails because she's really good at it. I know Debbie hasn't been there for awhile. sad. The big baldish guy told me it was because she's having migraines, but I don't know if thats true or not. I just hope she can get whatever it is under control and feeling well again. She has always taken time to talk to me and answer questions.

 

[jmfleish]

If your bird has zinc toxicity, it is probably chronic, which means that he's getting a very small amount here and there over the course of a very long time. You very well could save his life by performing this simple blood test. You cannot rule out zinc toxicosis unless you run the test. Here are the symptoms of zinc toxicosis:

Chronic toxicity symptoms included intermittent lethargy, and depression, gastro-intestinal upset may occur. Kidney damage may result in a bird developing increased urination and water drinking. Acute toxicity cases demonstrated lethargy, weight loss, birds may vomit, but may stop eating, greenish diarrhea.

Zinc is a cumulative poison, which is not easily eliminated from the body. Once ingested, it is deposited in the liver, kidneys, muscle and pancreas. There is limited excretion through the urine, intestinal tract and bile. Prevention is the best method of dealing with zinc toxicity. Remove the sources of zinc and your bird will be safe

 

[birdlvr466]

I think you have made your point Jen. I know you mean well, but we dont want Lisa to feel pressured and not want to post here. Please respect her decision.

 

[Birdlover]

Lisa Im so happy to hear you can bring Simon home tonight. Continued good thoughts and prayers that whatever is wrong is a passing thing and he can get better

 

[Slic102]

I am so happy that he gets to come home for awhile. Hopefully he will have some better days!

I am in the HEB area. Yep, I know Barbara...she's a bit gruff, but if you draw her out she's pretty nice. I usually only want her to do my birds nails because she's really good at it. I know Debbie hasn't been there for awhile. sad. The big baldish guy told me it was because she's having migraines, but I don't know if thats true or not. I just hope she can get whatever it is under control and feeling well again. She has always taken time to talk to me and answer questions.

Where is the HEB area? The bald man is Curtis and he is the one who delivered our cage for Izzy and put it together for free. He is correct about Debbie. They have not been able to diagnose what it is but it is serious. At first after the meds didn't work, they said that her teeth did not match up correctly and that she had TMJ and they wanted to break her jaws and have them wired shut for a YEAR! After seeking another opinion, there is something wrong in her brain. Not a tumor, but some sort of "electrical" problem if that makes sense. She is seeing a neurologist now, and I'm pretty sure that she is going to need some sort of brain surgery, but she won't tell me how bad it is.

Jean and Martina are also really nice. I take Izzy there to visit most weekends. I think it's so funny that Barbara and I honestly HATED each other and she made me cry on several occasions because we brought 2 birds back that did not work out for us. Some of you may think that's bad, but not all birds are a good fit for every family, and it was only my second bird. We fell in love with a caique there and started visiting him. We were about to move from an apt. to a house, so we were waiting until that was done before we picked another bird. We spent 2 months visiting Pogo up there until she (Debbie) finally approached me and told me she wanted me to have Pogo because we'd become quite attached. His price was almost a thousand bucks, but she gave him to me for 500, which was what my credit there was. Since then, ever bird I've gotten there she has allowed me to make payments on. I even sometimes have to make payments on boarding. Now days, Barbara texts me all the time and she has my Ruby, and a good friends Quaker that she rehomed because they had a new baby that it was attacking and no matter how they tried to lock the cage door that bird could get out. I just can't say enough good things about it!

 

[WingedVictory]

Hi, nice to see your bird is doing better! It sounds like you don't want to do any more tests and I can't argue that. However it may be in your birds best interest to get a test don for zinc poisoning. I suggest you also start your bird on aloe-detox once week and add milk thistle and dandelion to his food while having symptoms of liver disease. None of the listed items are expensive but are vital for a pet with conditions as you have posted. Ask your vet about switching your bird to a pelleted and fresh diet or a rice pellet diet with fresh fruits and veggies.

Please keep coming back to the forum and giving us some updates.

Gary

 

[Slic102]

Gary,
I am beginning to wonder if you have actually read my previous posts. Let me reveiw them for you.....
Ok, first of all, he is on milk thistle, that is part of his medications. Secondly, I was advised not to do the aloe detox until AFTER he was done with his meds, that it could interfere with what he is on. Next, he is and has been on a primarily pelleted diet since he's been with us.(since he was a baby) They determined (as I keep saying ) that this was not dietary. I do a fresh organic chop full of fresh veggies and fruits every other day, and they get it morning and late afternoon. I also do several different birdie breads that are full of healthy veggies processed to be tiny bits in the bread.
Why am I feeling like you are continually picking on me? Are you a vet?? I've held my tongue thus far, but this is starting to annoy me. I have 2 avian vets who have been treating him, and they are consulting with one of the best avians in the country, Dr. Burkett. What is with you and the zinc deal anyway??? Do you not think that 3 avian vets did not do all the testing that was needed for him? You are speaking to me as if I have zero bird experience. 5 years is not long compared to many, but I'm not a novice either and have 6 other birds who have NEVER been sick a day in their life. As I have already said, Simon came from a horrible pet shop, since closed down, and I was not educated at the time, my bad for buying a sickly bird.

For everyone else, Simon is now home for good. He is eating well so we don't have to take him back to the hospital again. He almost seems back to himself, although he does tire easily. We go back in 10 days (when he is done with the meds) for a recheck, but he's HOME!!! I couldn't be happier!! Prayers and healing thoughts helped him I just know it!

 

[all4stvoyager]

Yay, glad to hear.

 

[jmfleish]

Gary,
I am beginning to wonder if you have actually read my previous posts. Let me reveiw them for you.....
Ok, first of all, he is on milk thistle, that is part of his medications. Secondly, I was advised not to do the aloe detox until AFTER he was done with his meds, that it could interfere with what he is on. Next, he is and has been on a primarily pelleted diet since he's been with us.(since he was a baby) They determined (as I keep saying ) that this was not dietary. I do a fresh organic chop full of fresh veggies and fruits every other day, and they get it morning and late afternoon. I also do several different birdie breads that are full of healthy veggies processed to be tiny bits in the bread.
Why am I feeling like you are continually picking on me? Are you a vet?? I've held my tongue thus far, but this is starting to annoy me. I have 2 avian vets who have been treating him, and they are consulting with one of the best avians in the country, Dr. Burkett. What is with you and the zinc deal anyway??? Do you not think that 3 avian vets did not do all the testing that was needed for him? You are speaking to me as if I have zero bird experience. 5 years is not long compared to many, but I'm not a novice either and have 6 other birds who have NEVER been sick a day in their life. As I have already said, Simon came from a horrible pet shop, since closed down, and I was not educated at the time, my bad for buying a sickly bird.

For everyone else, Simon is now home for good. He is eating well so we don't have to take him back to the hospital again. He almost seems back to himself, although he does tire easily. We go back in 10 days (when he is done with the meds) for a recheck, but he's HOME!!! I couldn't be happier!! Prayers and healing thoughts helped him I just know it!

Lisa,

I don't think anyone is picking on you. There are just things that point to a high possibility that what you are dealing with is zinc toxicosis. The bright green poop is the first thing that screams zinc poisoning. The fact that the bird's liver is failing when you are feeding him a good diet is another reason to question if there really isn't a different possibility other than genetics involved, although it could be genetics, but if he were my bird, I would be looking at anything that could cause liver failure and chronic zinc poisoning is definitely one thing that can do that. The lethargy and the weight loss are also signs of zinc toxicosis.

You came to this board asking for help, we are only trying to give you other possibilities you might want to check. Vets are not fallible and can misdiagnose...they also tend to not think to test for zinc toxicosis. Considering the fact that Dr. Burkett doesn't see an issue with toys that are made from zinc wire (he has come out and backed businesses that use zinc in their toys saying that it isn't an issue), I would indeed question his diagnosis. If your bird gets worse after being home after a few days, that would be another reason I would really question if what was causing the issue was zinc that he was getting in his environment.

Of course, you will ultimately have to make the decision to test or not, but even asking the treating vet what she thinks about the possibility of zinc poisoning wouldn't hurt. If she says no way, then don't bother. I'll leave it alone now, but did want to explain why some here are saying to test and wanted you to know that it isn't because we are trying to be mean.

 

[Birdiemarie]

Hi Lisa, so sorry you are feeling ganged up on. We have so many very wise bird parronts here who from years of experience know the signs of different problems and diseases so they are giving you tips of what to look for. That's what we do best here...trouble shoot problems so you have more to talk to our vet about. Oftentimes a good vet will reconsider something and test again or test differently because of what information is talked about here. No one means to be redundant. Look at it as though we're all sitting around a table talking out loud together. Things will be repeated.

 

[Slic102]

Point taken Gary, however considering that he is home now and MUCH better, I don't think that is an issue. I just saw that you were asked to drop it by an admin, and you continue. I did come for advice, but also mainly moral support. I never asked anyone to diagnose my bird, rather opinions. Want to know the really ironic thing? I have my itemized bill here in front of me, and they actually DID do a zinc screening. I didn't even know because they did every test possible that had to do with the liver. I never asked WHAT tests they did, I only asked what came back positive. So you can quit worrying about zinc. I do tend to get ticked off when I feel like someone is telling me what I should do, when my bird is in the hospital already having tests run and being treated, but in your last post, you told me what I should be feeding my birds and what supplements he should get and I'd already made a post about what they eat, and how well they are fed. Just ask JL, I don't take it well when I'm told what I should do, rather I prefer and appreciate suggestions. That is why I felt like you were being condescending in the post. I guess when you are typing something rather than actually speaking to someone, things can be taken the wrong way.

 

[jmfleish]

Point taken Gary, however considering that he is home now and MUCH better, I don't think that is an issue. I just saw that you were asked to drop it by an admin, and you continue. I did come for advice, but also mainly moral support. I never asked anyone to diagnose my bird, rather opinions. Want to know the really ironic thing? I have my itemized bill here in front of me, and they actually DID do a zinc screening. I didn't even know because they did every test possible that had to do with the liver. I never asked WHAT tests they did, I only asked what came back positive. So you can quit worrying about zinc. I do tend to get ticked off when I feel like someone is telling me what I should do, when my bird is in the hospital already having tests run and being treated, but in your last post, you told me what I should be feeding my birds and what supplements he should get and I'd already made a post about what they eat, and how well they are fed. Just ask JL, I don't take it well when I'm told what I should do, rather I prefer and appreciate suggestions. That is why I felt like you were being condescending in the post. I guess when you are typing something rather than actually speaking to someone, things can be taken the wrong way.

You're getting Gary and I confused...two different people. Gary was just trying to be helpful as was I. I'm glad that they ran the zinc test. The only reason I brought it up so many times is that it really is something that most vets would run. I wish you the best.

 

[Slic102]

Hey Birdiemarie, first of all, nice to see you again, you were very helpful to me with my ekkie when I was having such issues with her and I appreciate that. As you see in my post to Gary that I had just reviewed my itemized bill and they actually DID screen for zinc toxicity...LOL! I tend to get defensive when someone TELLS me what I should do rather than making suggestions, and you know, forums and facebook and computer conversations are great, but when you are reading typed words, it is easy to take them wrong where is if you were actually speaking to someone, what they are saying could be taken in a totally different manner. One of the admins (or Jill, I don't remember) had asked Gary to drop it, and the very next post I read is talking about it again.

I realize that this board has a TON of what I'd call bird experts who have been involved with birds much longer than my measly 5 years, which is why I always come back here even if it's sporadic. I do appreciate suggestions, but I also tend to take it badly when I'm told what I need to do as if I've not done a ton of research on my own and am really not uneducated about birds. I got TONS of great advice in this thread and once Simon is off his meds, there are lots of things that were suggested that I intend to try and if they seem to work, will continue. Don't ever think that I'm unappreciative of what's said. I actually didn't feel ganged up on at all, what upset me is that every post that was made by Gary was about zinc testing even after he was asked to drop it. That is all that upset me.

 

[Slic102]

You're getting Gary and I confused...two different people. Gary was just trying to be helpful as was I. I'm glad that they ran the zinc test. The only reason I brought it up so many times is that it really is something that most vets would run. I wish you the best.

Oops, sorry about that. Believe me I never thought that ya'll weren't trying to help at all, I just thought that considering he was getting the best care I know of in this city, that if they thought a zinc test was necessary, they would do it, and as it turns out, they did. Also one thing I will say is that the bright green poops screams of liver disease but not necessarily zinc poisoning.