Lovebird abdominal growling sounds and vomiting

Discussion in 'Diseases' started by Sierra81, 10/16/12.

  1. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    I've been looking for answers for 2 years, but nothing. Not even vets can explain these symptoms and where I live I can't make blood/poop tests, so I'm looking for people who have encountered these symptoms before and have some idea of what causes them.

    I have a male lovebird of about 6 years of age. About 2 years ago he started to have weird symptoms like vomiting a white foam, regurgitating food, trying to mate every single day with what he can, producing some sort of growling sounds from his abdomen area like people when we're hungry, eating his own poop and my other birds' poop and papers, and finally losing weight (I can feel his front bone area became sharp).

    I did an AVB test with chest feathers at Avian Biotech UK but it came out negative. I also had a budgerigar who was vomiting frequently and had his crop/proventriculus extremely dilated and you could see millet from his skin (his abdomen was full of liquid and undigested seeds), who died after two surgeries and 4 years later since the symptoms began to show. The budgerigar wasn't tested for anything. Nobody knows what he had. The dilatation started to develop at about the age of 2. I suspect it was PDD but no vet could confirm it. We don't have avian vets here.

    So, if anyone knows what causes the growling sounds in his abdomen, or has seen similar cases before, please spend some minutes to tell me what the cause is and maybe the treatment used to cure this. My lovebird was recently treated with Linco-Spectin, Duphalyte, and Enroxil (enrofloxacin) and there's no improvement.
  2. waterfaller1
    Offline

    waterfaller1 Ripping up the road Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue

    Joined:
    10/16/09
    Messages:
    26,623
    I am so sorry. I hope you can get some answers. :hug8:There are vets here who do phone consultations.
    3 people like this.
  3. JackDele
    Offline

    JackDele Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    6/28/11
    Messages:
    1,207
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Real Name:
    Adele
    What's his diet consist of, Monica?
  4. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    The diet: (seeds from the pet shop) mostly sunflower seeds, oatmeal, hemp, etc, plus apple, carrot, sometimes potato, salad, dill, parsley, rarely yoghurt, etc. He's refusing to eat millet since 2 years ago. If I give him a millet seed he spits it, but he loves canary seeds, which I've heard are not good in big quantities. Anyway, if I give him canary seeds, he vomits them undigested. Maybe he can't digest whole seeds. He eats only seeds that he can break first in the beak.
  5. JackDele
    Offline

    JackDele Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    6/28/11
    Messages:
    1,207
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Real Name:
    Adele
    I think the balance is off in his diet. He should be getting far fewer seeds (as they are high fat, high protein) and a much greater variety and quantity of vegies, particularly, and fruit. I give my lovie vegie mash as he wont eat fresh vegies. Just bring together 10+ different vegies, cook, puree, add some grains like pearl barley, oats, etc., and freeze in icecubes. Cook a cube at a time and you can mix in a little seed to begin with to encourage him to try it.

    A diet high in fat and protein is hard on the kidneys and liver. If you can get him on a balanced diet, he'll be in a healthier state to fight other problems. Plus the vegie mash is going to be much gentler on his digestive system than seed.

    Like Carole said, I think it would be a very good idea to get in contact with an avian specialist via phone or email :hug8:
    2 people like this.
  6. Naiera
    Offline

    Naiera Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    9/7/11
    Messages:
    1,503
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    Real Name:
    Alyssa
    Sorry to hear you and your lovie are going through this :( Did your budgie also have a negative AVB test before he passed?
  7. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    But cooking (boiling) and freezing, especially boiling, destroys most of the vitamins and minerals in any vegetable.
  8. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    The budgie wasn't tested for AVB because I found out about this UK lab after he died. He had two surgeries; was opened two times to empty the crop (local anaesthetic). Every time he recovered quickly, in a few days, but after a few years, living with this, he died. One day he couldn't even vomit anymore. I don't know what he had, but I suspect it was PDD caused by ABV. There's no confirmation, no lab here to test. If my lovebird has the same disease (say it passed undetected in UK) then why there is no dilatation? He should have something dilated but he only lost weight. Everything is weird. I sent a message to the UK lab yesterday and asked what tests to pick if I were to send samples, for these specific symptoms. I'm waiting for an answer.
    Today the lovebird had the same symptoms - trying to vomit and the loud growling sounds like when we're hungry. I went with him to the vet here a few months ago, but he looked perfectly fine. He doesn't try to vomit or produce those sounds when he's at the vet :p so the vet told me he looks fine and maybe I'm paranoid. (Now I have video recordings and an audio recording as proof.)
    Maybe there are other birds with the same symptoms and their owners know the cause and the cure. That's what I'm trying to find out - similar cases, common symptoms...
  9. brilywi
    Offline

    brilywi Sprinting down the street

    Joined:
    6/12/12
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    Texas
    Real Name:
    Bri
    It might be beneficial to you and your bird as well as your vet if you left your bird with the vet for a week or so. If your lovie isn't eating, your vet could tube feed if he felt necessary, as well as keep any eye out for the symptoms you mentioned. He might have to be placed away from other birds and on his own for a while, but it could provide your vet with invaluable information on what is actually going on and give him a good idea on how he might treat it or if he needs to go ask another vet for their opinion.
  10. Chicobo
    Offline

    Chicobo Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    8/21/11
    Messages:
    1,524
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Real Name:
    Erin
    Isn't vomiting foam a sign of yeast or trichomoniasis? Can you look in his mouth at all? If you see any kind of stringy stuff in there, almost like dog drool, that's trich -- canker. Otherwise I might consider avian gastric yeast, I remember little Munch the lovebird here had similar symptoms and eventually she got some apple cider vinegar in water and actually threw up little bits of yeast -- gross, but it helped her parront figure out the problem.

    I agree it could be diet. But then again I imagine it could also be something keeping him from absorbing nutrients. How are his poops?
    1 person likes this.
  11. Naiera
    Offline

    Naiera Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    9/7/11
    Messages:
    1,503
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    Real Name:
    Alyssa
    Wish I had some helpful information for you :( I hope someone is able to point you in the right direction and your lovie is able to make a full recovery.


    :hug8:
    1 person likes this.
  12. JackDele
    Offline

    JackDele Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    6/28/11
    Messages:
    1,207
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Real Name:
    Adele
    I steam the vegies (never boil). Very little nutrients are lost thru steaming and freezing. The diet he is on now, with so much protein and fat, has a very high likelihood of leading to liver and kidney problems if not changed. It's very important you introduce a greater variety of vege and fruit in whatever form he will eat it.
    1 person likes this.
  13. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    There is nothing in his beak. It looks clean.
    I tried with apple cider vinegar (bio), lemon juice, chamomile tea in water... and nothing.
    Poops were bright green, sometimes looking transparent, other times with air bubbles in them. There is also a sound coming from the cloak when he poops and sometimes his poops are very big.
    Now, after the treatment with antibiotics, the poop looks more normal in color only.
  14. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    I will make a mixture of vegetables and seeds. Can you recommend me a recipe, like what vegetables work best with what seeds?
  15. Chicobo
    Offline

    Chicobo Rollerblading along the road

    Joined:
    8/21/11
    Messages:
    1,524
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Real Name:
    Erin
    Big poops...do they make a sort of...(sorry, this is gross) squishy, squirty noise? My female 'tiel poops these GINORMOUS poops when she's sitting on eggs and they sort of squish-plop out of her.

    The green....I know that's something. I feel like that's relevant and the bubbles, too. Let me look. I really feel like I know what that is.

    ETA: AHA!

    I knew I wasn't crazy. Does this sound familiar to you?
    Last edited: 10/18/12
    2 people like this.
  16. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    3 piu poop.jpg
    Here are 3 photos of the poop with foam, before the treatment, and after the first 2 treatment stages. I'm still in contact with the avian vet, waiting to see what he'll say and if there are other stages as well. He told me the bird might be infected with several bacteria types, because this thing is already chronic and symptoms show there are more than one type of infection. He suspects Pseudomonas as the main issue here, but I'm not sure about that.

    I read about the bubbles issue before but it's still not clear to me and yes, there is that sound coming from the cloak. It's not produced every time he poops, but I can hear it clearly a few times a day. The dead budgerigar was making this sound every time he pooped and it was loud and exactly as you described it, but in the lovebird's case, there are no eggs. (He acts like a male so we think it's a he.)
  17. suileeka
    Offline

    suileeka Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award

    Joined:
    12/6/10
    Messages:
    4,492
    Location:
    Southeast PA
    Real Name:
    Lindsay
    1 person likes this.
  18. Sierra81
    Offline

    Sierra81 Sitting on the front steps

    Joined:
    10/11/12
    Messages:
    19
    Real Name:
    Monica
    I took sample from the beak and cloak (exterior) myself (couldn't find any doctor in my city to help) and left them at a human lab where they told me they make any kind of tests for many bacteria and fungus groups. I asked them to perform all the tests they have and they lied and finally tested only for Salmonella/Shigella. They gave me no other explanations. For the question "What are the bacteria and fungus groups that you tested my samples for?" their answer was "You will see on the results list". Of course the results were negative for Salmonella and for the beak swab. That really suck especially since the bird has been vomiting for 3 days white foam, makes those growling sounds in the abdomen and poop with air bubbles.
    Do you know any vet that has experience with birds and would accept to indicate me the bacteria/fungus that causes these symptoms?
  19. JayLim
    Offline

    JayLim Checking out the neighborhood

    Joined:
    2/20/13
    Messages:
    2
    Real Name:
    Jay Lim
    Hi Sierra,

    These may not be directly related but i still hope to share... i had 6 Lovebirds and some weeks back, 1 contracted single problem. First suspecting it was mosquitoes bite (Thailand has plenty), I just drip eyes drops regularly. Day by day, this Particular lovebird became recluse and refuse to eat and sleeps throughout the day. Then he died one morning. Following, another of my Yellow one contracted the same problem, again, i thought its mosquitoes bites but i isolated this birdy to another cage. The same symptoms appears as first one and then 3rd and the 4th bird follows. Immediately i realise something is not right even though they were isolated form the infected one so i brought all my 3 birds to the VET. She took all 3 birds Poo for immediate testing and results shows negative with 5 times the amount of bacterial infection in it. After questioning me on few issues of their diet, feeding, timing, accommodation and food, the VET she immediately pins down the problem. Its my food management issue. You see, i used to finished all the wet food within a day when they are chicks but i still continue to fed them daily morn as the food i provide are very good grade supplements with higher nutrients. However as the birds grew and able to feed, they are less dependent on my feeding and hence, i have left over. I celo wrapped them and keep refrigerated. I microwave the leftover food before feeding them daily. Over a period of 3-4 weeks, the birds develop symptoms. So, the conclusion are simple, feed them and throw away the leftovers.

    The cause : My birds developed 5 times the level of bacterial infection in its intestinal system. Due to this infection, they cant absorb food daily and hence, they stop eating. They tends to hibernate throughout the day (conserving energy), stays inactive and hardly sings. They also display signs of weigh losses, swelling of their eyes and tearing. No, I did did not witness signs of vomiting (although i may not be there to witness if they did while i was away at work). If left untreated, the birds will die.

    Medical Remedy : VET prescribed Anti-biotic, Anti-inflammatory and liquid injection. Daily oral treatment of liquid antibiotics to subdue the bacterial for 1 week. Anti-biotic eye drops (non steroid) and carefully orally feed them regularly on small amount till they regain energy

    Practical Remedy : Clean the cages, food trays and accessories thoroughly to rid of possible bacteria, disinfect all their birds houses/Nest, change brand new beddings.

    My birds are showing signs of recovery and i must admit my stupidity :dance4: but after this lesson, im relief to see them recovering :heart:.

    Cheers
    Jay

    Treatment.jpg
    Last edited: 2/21/13
  20. waterfaller1
    Offline

    waterfaller1 Ripping up the road Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue

    Joined:
    10/16/09
    Messages:
    26,623
    Hi Jay, welcome to Avian Avenue. I am glad you have the problem resolved. I hope you can make a post in the welcome forum to introduce yourself and your birds.:)

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)