Liver health

[Aggie]

Hey guys,

Need a bit of advice please. 5 month male eclectus had bloods done for random swollen foot in case gout/kidney related.

All tests came back fine except 1 liver enzym test is slightly elevated. Has been put on meloxicam which is working well. Have noticed mild poo changes but nothing to really worry about.

A bit concerned as my boy gets a well balanced diet. Eats everything I give him and isn't fed any junk. Like not a single scrap. He is let out anytime im home and is free fighted. Harnessed daily and has 3 play areas and an abundance of toys to excercise and stimulate. We discussed a very mild wing clip each wing so he has to work a little harder at flying and thus gets more excercise. Also vet wamts him on more fruit. But this is high in sugar. What are people's thoughts on this also?

I'm just after some suggestions of the possible causes, how to treat it and if anyone's bird has off liver tests despite having a healthy lifestyle. I'm also thinking it might be gentic? The vet thought it strange that it was only one marker off. What are people's thoughts?

Today I tried to give him milk thistle in natural plant form and he declined for the first time. Is there a form of milk thistle I can buy? Also been reading about aloe vera and thinking of that too. Like can I use the inside of plant or better off as a supplement?

Anyway touching base we vet tomorrow so will try and find out which enzym. But our plan is to redo bloods in 6 weeks. Want to know what else I can be doing to put is blood work into the normal ranges. Is it possible to reverse this?


Thanks!!


Ps have already investigated for toxins and discussed with hubby again about potential toxins in case I'm not home.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yes liver disease can be reversed, if not too far gone. The liver is the most regenerative organ in the body.
Here i a rather detailed article by Dr. Lafeber on liver disease;
Nutritional Management of Liver Disease in Birds | LafeberVet

Milk Thistle
SAMe
Lactulose
are the go to medications for liver disease. My Jasper has been on Mik Thistle for 12 years and SAMe fpr two years. Aloe Vera, IMO, is a unsupported by science and clinical trials and peer review for much of anything - I don't use or consider it for anything. Almost all of the support for Aloe Vera is anecdotal not scientific.

In addition to the foods recommended in the article, low sugar (which metabolizes into fat when there is excess in the diet) is better than high sugar. Cut down on fruit.

 

[Hankmacaw]

This is the Milk Thistle I have used for years. It was approved by my vet. Milk Thistle Sylimarin must be extracted to be of any value. Feeding seed or leaves or any part of the plant does not do any good.

Amazon.com: Nature's Answer Alcohol-Free Milk Thistle Seed, 1-Fluid Ounce: Health & Personal Care

 

[iamwhoiam]

Aloe Detox has been very beneficial based on my own personal experience. Bird with end stage liver disease....reversal of liver issues. I believe that the aloe detox contributed to this and her vet agreed.
Do an internet search and you will find out a lot of information about it. It does contain milk thistle so don't want to use this and milk thistle. Check with your vet regarding its use with your bird. Hoping all will be well.

 

[Aggie]

Ok. Got results. His GLDH is 8 when it should be less than 2.

Can anyone help explain what this is and how to reduce it please.

Cheers

 

[Hankmacaw]

It would help if you could post a copy of the test results. Aussies use different measurements than the US evidentely.

 

[Aggie]

Here are my results.

Vet wants to retest 6-12 weeks. Was hoping to work out what the cause and possibly reverse effects

 

[Hankmacaw]

In a bird that young I wouldn't have any idea what the cause could be. If you haven't had him that full 5 months he may have been on a terrible diet, been starved (yeah that causes liver damage) or he may have had a defective gene - who knows why.

The GLDH is a measurement of bile activity in blood plasma and is specific for liver disease. Did the vet say if he has fatty liver, or an infection in the liver or cirrhosis of the liver. There are lots of different liver diseases.

Put him on a very restricted diet and get him on Milk Thistle and SAMe. I still don't think that aloe vera is of any benefit - notice that the aloe that was given to the bird in the above post also had Milk thistle in it.

Did your vet recommend any medications or a diet?

 

[iamwhoiam]

Winged Wisdom Pet Bird Magazine - Kitchen Physician V - Herbal Remedies For Parrots and Pet Birds (scroll down for info on aloe detox)
Liver Disease / Fatty Liver in Birds (scroll down)
I only used a small amount in her water.
Try milk thistle or try the aloe detox. If milk thistle is effective with change in diet then that is good. If not then give the aloe detox a try. Again, check with your vet first.
Probably a good idea to review the test results again with your vet and ask any additional questions.

 

[Aggie]

Vet doesn't want me to do anything at this stage but retest 6 weeks. Cholesterol and everything else he said are good. So basically I'm putting it down to a bit of liver cell death due to toxin or genetic?? I suggested duet change but he said it's fine give him more fruit.

He has been with me for 2 months. His prior diet was sunflower seeds and some veggies but I don't think good quality. ie tinned veggies at times. He was also in competition with an older bird. He was hand reared too.

No surprise that he is now a little piggy guts and will eat anything and everything. He gets two chop mixes and a variety of fresh fruit and veg. Treats are almonds walnuts or Brazil nuts. I am cutting down on the sunflower seeds and he hates it. Perhaps hes going a bit hungry without it? I can only eat so much vegetables myself lol

I will treat with milk thistle to start. I'm in Melbourne. Where do I get this from? Health food store or is there a bird staff one I can buy online?

Do you think I can repair this? If genetic maybe not??

Btw he has had an episode of toe tapping cos another vet wanted hom on pellets. Could this be the related? After only 3 days? Or do I just have a very sensitive bird??

I made a commitment to have the lil bugger for more than 40 years. Want to do everything so he is healthy and happy.

 

[Aggie]

Oops.

Just saw u can order thro amazon. Thanks!!

 

[EkkieLuv]

I would supplement with milk thistle. It couldn't hurt and we've been giving it to Peanut while dealing with a mysterious liver disease. Ask your vet for the specific dosage. I buy this one on Amazon as recommended by our vet - Amazon.com: Botanic Choice Liquid Extract, Milk Thistle, 1 Fluid Ounce: Health & Personal Care - though it was only $3 as an add-on item a month ago!

Hope it's nothing and his liver values are better on retest!!

 

[Aggie]

I would supplement with milk thistle. It couldn't hurt and we've been giving it to Peanut while dealing with a mysterious liver disease. Ask your vet for the specific dosage. I buy this one on Amazon as recommended by our vet - Amazon.com: Botanic Choice Liquid Extract, Milk Thistle, 1 Fluid Ounce: Health & Personal Care - though it was only $3 as an add-on item a month ago!

Hope it's nothing and his liver values are better on retest!!

Thank you.

What dosage do u give? My vet wants me to do nothing at this stage.

Even if I give half dose it'll be better than nothing. My mum suggested to pick fruits lower in fructose and increase green leafy vegtables. He already eats so well though.

Anyway fingers crossed for 6 weeks I guess.

I'm sorry about peanut. How is he travelling?

 

[EkkieLuv]

Peanut is about 500g in weight and gets .03mL twice a day. It's a tiny amount and if you don't have syringes would be hard to gauge. If the bottle you buy has a dropper, I'd say one drop. Sorry if I missed it above but did you ask your vet about milk thistle? A few weeks wait until the next vet visit and bloodwork won't hurt but I would inquire about a reason if they tell you not to try this supplement for liver support. For curiosity's sake if nothing else since it was one of the 1st things our vet put Peanut on when we discovered the liver issue.

Thanks for asking about P. We had a scary weekend and the story is super long but he was much better today! If you find the thread "vets are stumped" you can read about his case.

 

[Tiel Feathers]

Could it be that in his first three months there was something that was negatively affecting his liver? I hope his liver improves!

 

[Aggie]

Yeah i did ask him and he just said let's not do anything yet. Might be a random result. Its cos none of the other markers are elevated so its not a fatty liver or poor diet. I'm thinking he either ingested a toxin as this is result or its gentic. The later worries me very much

I still would prefer to try it though. No harm in a detox!!

Wow ur boy is big. Echo is 340g. I will check out your post!!

 

[iamwhoiam]

FYI, 1 drop = .05 ml/cc.

 

[Aggie]

Ordered my milk thistle!! Waiting now for arrival.

How soon do people see results?

What can I mix it in to give him correct dose? Like water ok?

 

[EkkieLuv]

FYI, 1 drop = .05 ml/cc.

I knew I'd seen that somewhere. Looked and my bottle says approx 28 drops = 1mL

@Aggie you should find 1mL syringes if you're going to try it. You don't need to water it down, just put it on something he'll eat right away or if he'll let you squirt it right in his beak without a fuss that's easiest. However - none of mine will let me do that!

Yes, Peanut is big and probably a little heavy due to being lazy. We think he's a cross rather than one subspecies. Since he's a stray we'll never know. Mr. Spock is a Vos and he stays around 410 (very active). Tigger is SI and he is around 450 (not very active).

 

[Hankmacaw]

Since your baby is only 5 mo. old, it would serve you well to teach him to take anything and everything from a syringe right now. If he gets ill in the future him taking meds from a syringe will be invaluable.

You can buy syringes from several bird supply stores or get a few from your vet.