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lactofermentation - is anyone doing this?

Discussion in 'Feathered Food Court' started by Distaff, 1/5/17.

  1. Distaff

    Distaff Walking the driveway

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    I use lactofermentation for our chickens. Saves on feed, they like it, and I can use whole grains like corn that are normally served cracked.

    Pickl-It For Pets — Blog — | Pickl-It

    Hope the link works.

    Last night, I wandered onto Parrot Nation website, and stayed up way too late reading about "chop" I make that too...every morning. The PN lady freezes hers. I found no mention of lacto ferments on her site, but those basic veggi chops would make a fine kraut. We make veggi krauts for ourselves (I like Sandor Katz books for that), I never thought of feeding it to the budgies/canary.

    So, are the Pickl-it people on to something?
     
  2. expressmailtome

    expressmailtome Ripping up the road Administrator Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    While making chop is very common for birds, I have never heard of pickling food for parrots.
     
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  3. Calpurnia

    Calpurnia Sprinting down the street Secret Spy

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    I've never heard of feeding pickled veg instead of fresh so it makes me wonder: there's got to be no salt in the brine right? And what are the effects of that much acid on a bird's digestive system? Do they acclimate to it?
     
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  4. Distaff

    Distaff Walking the driveway

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    I don't use much salt. I frequently forget to add any to the chicken ferment jars, since I fill them from the bins out in what serves as our barn. This is about a four day ferment for them, so the acid isn't that strong, probably about like adding ACV to the water bowl.

    You can find plenty of articles on it for backyard chickens, and some for dogs too (IIRC, Mercola has one, and so does The Weston Price Foundation), but nothing for pet indoor birds (nor pigeons, either).
     
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  5. Calpurnia

    Calpurnia Sprinting down the street Secret Spy

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    Interesting. Though I know I can go look this up on my own, what are the benefits of feeding lots of fermented foods (to animals)? I know they recommend people eat things like kombucha and kimchi because of the probiotics. Is this the major benefit for animals as well? Why do people recommend them for chickens in particular?
     
  6. Distaff

    Distaff Walking the driveway

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    I'm not an expert, but pro-biotics, enzymes...you are adding life to *dead* food. It is a lot like silage for ruminants. Chickens are scavengers and omnivores, so it is hard to really screw things up with them - they will hunt down mice, they love dairy products and compost piles.

    Even the Pickl- it site is suggesting smaller amounts for the fids. What I like about the idea for parrots is the same as frozen chop; you gather a bunch of ingredients at one time, and make a convenience food that will last for however many meals. It is easy to assemble a bowl with pellets, seed, and sprouts. Nevertheless, it would be easier if the additional apple, green house leafy greens, cranberry, carrot, napa etc. didn't have to be picked,cleaned, chopped, assembled too every morning, and it might be a healthy alternative/addition to freezing.
     
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  7. JLcribber

    JLcribber Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Shutterbugs' Best

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    I can see the benefits of some acidity in the diet. As you said all it takes is a little ACV or just offering them some citrus fruit. Your using it as a preservative and convenience. No harm in that. My concern would be the amount of acidity they are getting on a regular basis. They don't need much and not constantly (to me).

    All the research is done on Chickens (as the vast majority of avian research seems to be). Parrots are not Chickens and there are many species of parrots vastly different from each other.

    Any of this information pertaining to parrots is anecdotal. Still very interesting.
     
  8. MyAussieFriends

    MyAussieFriends Rollerblading along the road

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    It's never occurred to me to feed my guys fermented foods, but I imagine there could be benefits! I've been on a pretty big kimchi and kraut kick lately, because it's great for gut health.

    I think I'll withhold from serving them up to the fids though, as I wouldn't want to accidentally give too much and give them a too much of a sodium dose.
     
  9. Aubrey

    Aubrey Biking along the boulevard Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Secret Spy I Can't Stop Posting!

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    This is an interesting topic. I'll definitely follow it.
     
  10. Laurul Feather Cat

    Laurul Feather Cat Cruising the avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    I do give my birds chicken bones to chew on for calcium, protein and iron supplements. Only long bones, like the leg or wing and they love them and it is never more often than once a month. Works great and my birds' calcium, protein and iron blood levels are never abnormal where as before often the protein and iron would be low in my breeding hens.
     
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  11. Distaff

    Distaff Walking the driveway

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    I just salt to taste, when I mix kraut. If you use a mason jar, a two part drilled lid, and an airlock, there isn't as much risk for mold and bad bacteria. An opened quart jar gets used up in a day or two. Much easier than those five gallon ceramic crocks people supposedly kept in the basement.

    The pickl-it people use glass lidded jars, but I find that wire bale is a PITA to deal with in this application. I use a regular metal canning rim, and a plastic Tattler lid. Amazon has sellers who will provide a pack of the little silicone washer-thingies that go around the center hole you drill, and will make a good seal with the air lock. There are some people on line who have a cow about fermenting with plastic, but the only plastic is on the lid, and the plastic airlock actually has more of a chance of getting in the kraut. ...anyway, that is probably more than anyone wants to know.

    I will offer the budgies a little taste the next time I open a jar for dinner.
     
  12. Distaff

    Distaff Walking the driveway

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    I toss a lot of raw and cooked bones out to the chicken flock. Never thought to offer anything like that to the pet birds.
    Thanks.
     
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  13. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award

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    I had an African Grey that adored chicken wing and leg bones. There was very little left when she finished.
     
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  14. Laurul Feather Cat

    Laurul Feather Cat Cruising the avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    It is observed that in the wild the parrots will forage on carcasses of dead animals and they are most interested in the bones for the minerals and the collagen. They also go after shed antlers. Make sure you give your parrots only cooked chicken bones and products because of the risk of salmonella in our food chain. It is very likely salmonella is in most of our chicken products and the only way we prevent an outbreak is by through cooking.
     
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  15. Tyrion

    Tyrion Rollerblading along the road

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    Interesting topic for sure :)
     
  16. 2macshan

    2macshan Meeting neighbors

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    I would definitely recommend against doing this. I listed to a great talk at the IAEP conference last year in St Louis about this. Even if you know what the starter culture is, it can be over taken by bacteria on the vegetables or from the air. This can be fine.. but you also don't know. If you are doing this at a minimum follow strict fermentation guidelines and do not refrigerate or feed before the process is complete! As a safe alternative I would feed a great avian probiotic like Equa Holistics brand.
     
  17. SamandWilley

    SamandWilley Walking the driveway

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    I feed my chickens fermented feed, also. No salt is needed. You just make sure you have a layer of water on top to prevent the aerobic bacteria from taking hold. I do put kelp meal in the bucket for the added minerals. I have also added a tad bit of the kelp meal to chop for the lovebirds for the nutrients.

    I had not thought about doing this until I saw this thread! I can see where fermenting cabbage would be a benefit for the birds. It makes the food a bit acidic, but it also softens the food a bit, and releases nutrients that may not always be easy to get out of food with just digestion. Similar to sprouting seed.

    Since it hasn't been tested, I am a bit hesitant. I would say that in nature, there is very likely fermentation taking place that they may consume once in a while. But, not necessarily a mainstay in their diet. But it is something to think about! Maybe once or twice a week???
     
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  18. 2macshan

    2macshan Meeting neighbors

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    I would be extremely hesitant to do that. Chicken have an entirely different/additional organ in their gastrointestinal tract than parrots. As a scientist who specializes in probiotics, I only feed my parrots freeze dried probiotics and never fermented foods.. in theory it is fine but I'm not willing to risk it.
     
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  19. SamandWilley

    SamandWilley Walking the driveway

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    Thanks for that! Since I have not studied their different digestive tracts, I was not sure. In the poultry, it seems to be very good for them and they LOVE it. It was hard to get them to switch back to dry food during the heat of the summer, when the food goes sour no matter how fermented it is.
     
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