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Java's Vet appointment

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Brittany0208

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Java had an appointment this morning with Dr. Corwin for a wellness exam, which went well for the most part. I had blood work done, his band removed, vaccinated against west Nile, and microchipped, but I also learned that he has bumblefoot, which Dr. Corwin says he's lucky to have made it this far considering his disability. He didn't seem too hopeful of a positive outlook with the foot. Ultimately, he says the bumblefoot will be Java's demise because there is no treatment and birds don't do well with just one foot. I've been in tears most of the morning as the thought of losing my sweet boy is more than I was prepared to deal with. He says all I can do is make Java comfortable and provide as much padding in his cage as possible, but he says it will eventually split and get infected. I'll be getting another opinion next month, but for now, I will do what I can as far as keeping him comfortable, and looking for a way to help him recover. There is more to the overall visit but I can't think straight right now. Does anyone have any experience with bumblefoot, and is it fatal? What can I do to help him and make sure he isn't suffering?
 

painesgrey

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I'm sorry that you didn't get ideal news. Bumblefoot is difficult - did he say what stage/grade they were in? There are treatments for them, but nothing that goes beyond dressing any sores, adjusting/padding perches, and addressing any subsequent infections. However, since he is already a disabled bird, having him bandaged up might prove difficult for his mobility.It's a tough situation for sure, and his disability is probably contributing to the onset of bumblefoot in the first place.

Don't hesitate to go see Dr. Lutz if necessary. Like I said before, Dr. Corwin can be somewhat frank and to-the-point, to an almost fatalistic/pessimistic degree.

You're Java's advocate, so if you have to push for treatments and guidance from vets, do it.
 

camelotshadow

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:sadhug2::sadhug2:not sure...but don;t give up hope...

Symptoms & Treatment of Bumblefoot in Parrots - Hari


Serious but should be treatable. Did he say what grade? Looks like it will take alot of work but don't see it as fatal.

Thing is he might be in pain on the foot/ nerve damage.

I'd find a vet who is willing to treat it.

Platform perches & clean all perches & pad them.
 
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Brittany0208

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I'm sorry that you didn't get ideal news. Bumblefoot is difficult - did he say what stage/grade they were in? There are treatments for them, but nothing that goes beyond dressing any sores, adjusting/padding perches, and addressing any subsequent infections. However, since he is already a disabled bird, having him bandaged up might prove difficult for his mobility.It's a tough situation for sure, and his disability is probably contributing to the onset of bumblefoot in the first place.

Don't hesitate to go see Dr. Lutz if necessary. Like I said before, Dr. Corwin can be somewhat frank and to-the-point, to an almost fatalistic/pessimistic degree.

You're Java's advocate, so if you have to push for treatments and guidance from vets, do it.
He didn't say what stage/grade it is, but from the brief searches I did online, I would say it's Stage 1, slight inflammation and callousing but nothing opened or leaking. And I will definitely be getting as many opinions as I can. Dr. Corwin was great at answering my questions, and I appreciate his honesty.
 

painesgrey

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If it's stage 1, then adjustments to the living environment might be enough to turn it around. It will be even more difficult with a disabled bird, but wrapping harder perches in vet wrap and making sure everything is soft and cushy might make a world of difference.

Also, don't hesitate to utilize the University of Tennessee Knoxville. You don't need a referral as an exotics client, and they have way more resources (at a reasonable price, in my experience) than a general practitioner vet. They may be key in addressing and treating issues further down the line.
 

iamwhoiam

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Sorry about the bumblefoot. As for birds not doing well with 1 foot, most of them adapt and are able to manage. In fact there are birds who survive and have no use of either foot.
Sending positive thoughts for Java.
There are some things that can be done...be sure to check out @camelotshadow link.
 

TikiMyn

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So sorry you found out about the bumblefoot. Couldn’t they remove the foot? @Garet and I am sure others as well have birds with one foot who do really well:) My bird Henkie can’t completely use one of his feet so walks on his back leg about 50% of the time.
 

Porter

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I'm gonna say this in a very simple way.

For now while he has bumble foot, wrap any and nearly ALL perches in fleece.
Soft fabric that you replace once every two days and wash in the washing machine. When Pip was still alive (Mother's Peach capped conure with PBF had bumble foot) she moved him into a flat low cage, gave him FOUR perches only of differing sizes, one was a simple rope perch, the others were hardwood of differing types including a platform that she wrapped in fleece every day and kept extra strips around for wrapping when she needed too.

Fleece on the floor as well over the pillows. tickly done if you want, the only thing he should have to climb that isn't wrapped are the cage bars.

As for the bottom of his feet.. Coconut oil and Aloe Vera do wonders, I'd towel him and apply once or twice daily.

With Java having only one foot this is likely a good choice to keep up anyway, though you can likely replace some of the fleece with vet wrap eventually.

Also this kind of perch..
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...p7arzGigP1v_xSiB4ZCdktT3UDnNOvM45I2w&usqp=CAY
Would likely be great for him.
 

Brittany0208

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Thank you guys so much for everything! I have read the links and cut up strips of fleece that I have padded all of his perches and floor with. I'll be putting coconut oil on his foot daily as well as Aloe Vera. You guys have been a shining light ever since I joined AA. Should I alternate between fleece and vet wrap, or just one or the other? Since I've had him, his perches have been wrapped in vet wrap with a washcloth underneath for added cushioning. He doesn't use his rope perch anymore but I'm guessing it's because I keep rearranging his cage to make everything more convenient for him. It's still a learning curve, but I want to make sure he has many happy years with me. Should I wash his foot with something before I put anything on it? Is there a specific brand of Aloe Vera I should use for him?
 

TikiMyn

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Not sure about the other things, but I think it would be okay to use vet wrap as well as fleece. If the vet wrap is uncomfortable for him I guess he wouldn’t use it anyway? But I don’t have experience with this, @Porter might have better insight:)

You Guys go, you have been doing a wonderful job with him so far and I am sure you can keep that up!:heart:
 

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@Brittany0208
I'm very disappointed that your vet gave you such a hopeless prognosis. Bumblefoot can and is treated regularly and successfully. It will be a little more difficult and awkward because Java is already down to one leg - BUT DON'T EVER GIVE UP UNTIL THE FAT LADY SINGS. Your good and consistent nursing and an involved caring veterinarian can get the job done.

You may want to consider a sleep crate for Java like I have for Jasper. Jasper has severe arthritis and has already had two toes amputated due to it. She sleeps every night in a wire dog crate with a thick/soft dog bed covered with fleece. I also give her a rolled up towel that she can use as a pillow. Sleeping in this crate instead of on a perch has done wonders for her arthritis. I can't imagine that it wouldn't give Java some relief for his one leg and get the pressure off his bumblefoot.

I've attached an excellent article about bumblefoot in parrots and I recommend that you read every word of it. Take into special consideration the recommendation on diet (ask any questions here about diet). Also please use the salves that the veterinarian who wrote the article recommends. The cow udder lubricant is sold at any drugstore as "Bag Balm" and DMSO can be found at a hardware store or I buy mine off of Amazon.

Symptoms & Treatment of Bumblefoot in Parrots - Hari

I'm sorry poor little Java has this problem (as if he hasn't had enough), but I have faith in you and your love for him.

 

Garet

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Fleece should be just fine, but imho you don't have to be a stickler for it. I used the legs and sleeves off of old pajamas I no longer wore. You just have to make sure Java can't ingest the fibers or get his toes caught in it. If it's not a really bad case, I'd also agree that he has a very good chance at pulling through.:hug8:
 

Brittany0208

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The support here is overwhelming! I'm almost in tears again. Here is a little more about today's vet visit in case it helps mold a more ideal dietary plan for him. When I took him to see Dr. Tonnie Ray (who I don't recommend), she told me Java was severely underweight and needed to be in the lower 500s, had cataracts, and was severely calcium deficient, all without doing a single test other than looking at him. Well, today, Dr. Corwin (recommend) said that Java does not have cataracts, that males don't become calcium deficient (really?) and that the blood work showed he has a little too much calcium. At 430 grams, Dr. Corwin says he doesn't need to gain any weight because if he does, he'll cripple that foot. Other than the calcium being high, Java's blood work came back good, Dr. Corwin check the papillae at the back of his throat and said that, based on what he saw, Java has never had a respiratory infection, which is good, and that his only issue is his foot but everything else turned out well. So, since he has too much calcium, what can I do to make sure everything is balanced? He is fed chop, homemade birdie muffins, Harrison's High Potency, fresh fruit, and grains and seeds (chia, flax, hemp, quinoa, oatmeal, lentils). Now that I have a baseline, I want to make sure he is given the best.
 

Garet

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Now that I think about it, Bull is quite a bit lighter than Steven... I think he may be right about Java needing to maintain a trimmer figure than others of his species...
 

Hankmacaw

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I'm completely underwhelmed by some of the vets out there preying on birds and owners. I've had a couple of bad ones and two horrible vets, but mine that I've been with for 19/20 years now is a master at his trade.

As far as his weight goes, I'd keep him a little slim and work on him building muscle. Extra weight can't be good on that one foot/leg.

Unless his calcium is significantly high significantly above 12.0 mg/dl. Here is a chart you can save and refer to. Psittacine Bird Reference Ranges

Sounds like java has a great diet - just keep it up.
 

Brittany0208

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His calcium is 7.6 mg/dl and his phosphorus is 1.2 mg/dl, and the vet said his calcium shouldn't be more than 2x higher than the phosphorus. How do I go about helping him build muscle?
 

Sarahmoluccan

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I wish I could be helpful but I don't have a lot experience with bumblefoot. I do know/heard of I cases of birds who have have lose both feet or most of both feet or lost the movement of both feet and while they have their challenges they still live happy lives. I wish a very happy life for Java. You're doing a great job being his advocate. :hug8:
 

Hankmacaw

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Different charts give different values (yeah it's frustrating), actually his phosphorus appears to be low and the calcium is right on the bottom of normal. Bananas and lentils and kidney beans are high in phosphorus and for calcium dark leafy greens like spinach, swiss chard, kales ..etc. Also, keep a calcium/mineral block available to him at all times, not cuttlebone calcium.

You haven't had him very long, so I'd give him some time on the diet he's on - adding some leafy greens.

If there is some way you can hold him so his wings are free, maybe you could pump him up and down or run with him and make him flap his wings. Let him climb as much as he will.
 

BirdManDan

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@Brittany0208
I'm very disappointed that your vet gave you such a hopeless prognosis. Bumblefoot can and is treated regularly and successfully. It will be a little more difficult and awkward because Java is already down to one leg - BUT DON'T EVER GIVE UP UNTIL THE FAT LADY SINGS. Your good and consistent nursing and an involved caring veterinarian can get the job done.

You may want to consider a sleep crate for Java like I have for Jasper. Jasper has severe arthritis and has already had two toes amputated due to it. She sleeps every night in a wire dog crate with a thick/soft dog bed covered with fleece. I also give her a rolled up towel that she can use as a pillow. Sleeping in this crate instead of on a perch has done wonders for her arthritis. I can't imagine that it wouldn't give Java some relief for his one leg and get the pressure off his bumblefoot.

I've attached an excellent article about bumblefoot in parrots and I recommend that you read every word of it. Take into special consideration the recommendation on diet (ask any questions here about diet). Also please use the salves that the veterinarian who wrote the article recommends. The cow udder lubricant is sold at any drugstore as "Bag Balm" and DMSO can be found at a hardware store or I buy mine off of Amazon.

Symptoms & Treatment of Bumblefoot in Parrots - Hari

I'm sorry poor little Java has this problem (as if he hasn't had enough), but I have faith in you and your love for him.



DITTO on what Hank said. I would also think fleece would be more comfortable than vet wrap. Would a flat perch help him? I could make him one.
 

sunnysmom

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Although I've never had a bird with bumble foot, this is the first time I've ever heard it given such a fatalistic diagnosis. As others have said, it is treatable. I think unfortunately, in addition to not many vets out there being experienced with birds, even less have probably ever dealt with a Vasa. You may have to try to find a vet that has Vasa experience and see if he/she would be willing to consult with a vet in your area. Hang in there. : )
 
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