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Is this stool normal? [cancer diagnosis]- Sad Update Post #28

Vera

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I will come back on you later,with the whole story behind this question.....
First i'd like to know what you think abou these pictures:

The stool from yesterday,during the day: 20170723_072247.jpg

Thia is from the same bird, stool from during the night:
20170723_072237.jpg
 

Tiel Feathers

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I think they look fine, but I don't know what regular poops look like for your birds...
 

Vera

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here is the story behind the question. my 3 year old male has some health issues, started at the end of may. his weight is alaways around 28/29gr.



his nose seemed infected. I started treating him with a product form Beaphar, Gezasept in the drinking water, to see if it would clear up. at first it did.



whe took him to our local vet with bird experience. he tested his feaces and took a swab from his nose and throat. he was tested for psittacosis: negative.
bacterial infection was found, so both birds were started on AB sulfatrim in the drinking water.

it went up and down, some days it looked better, other days it looked bad again.

then he was bleeding! offcourse on a sunday and no vet to turn too. i think he hurt himself by itching, his nose itches all the time. i put him in a hospital/warm cage and it did him good.



i contacted a well known avian vet by email, and send her the test results. she prescribed some nosedrops to use.
we finished the cure and it did get better, but it didnt clear completely.



we send her some feaces to test, bacteria were still there, so we started a new AB cure, Baytril.
it started to look better and better, but there seemed to grow something right next to his beak, on the other side:



he seemed fine, was eating and drinking well and was very active.
until last tuesday. i came downstairs in the morning. i always change their paper and take them out to weigh them and to check on them.
he stepped up and felt light, while his weight had gone up to 30gr.
he was also fluffed up. i didn't trust it and put him in the hospital/warmth cage before leaving for work. i had seen him eating, so i thought he would be fine.

in the evening i came home to this: a very sick looking bird, black stool on the bottom and it looked as if he had vomited.

[/IMG]


i thought i was going to loose him. he did eat but it took him a lot of effort.
he was too sick to take him out of his hospital cage and to transport him to the closest avian vet 60 minutes away.
we were hoping he would make it trough the night, but we were afraid to find him the next morning. he was still treated with AB at this moment.

next morning his eyes were clear again, he sat on his perch and was still fluffed up, but stool was looking almost normal again and he seemed active and eating.
weight had dropped to 28gr again. he looked pale.




he was getting better and better, temperature in the hospital cage was around 29 celsius. at thursday he wanted out and was vocalizing and climbing around in the small cage.

his lumb continued growing and we were still worried about him. he was still feeling a bit light when stepping up, although it was getting better, and he was looking tired at times,
also the pale feet and beak wasn't a good thing....

on thurday evening and friday morning we let the tempereature from the hospital cage go back from 29 to 26 degrees.
he was looking better on friday and was eating without problems, he kept a stable weight and his stool were normal.

we took him to the avian vet about 60minutes drive away. i was scared for what the stress would do to him, and was also scared to take him out the warm hospital cage.
thankfully it was a warm summer day...

the avian vet couldn't draw any blood because of his pale colour. she flushed his nostrils: nothing and no dirt coming out!

she put a needle inside the lumb, thinking it would be an abces; it wasn't. it was just a dry lumb. she looked under the microscobe but coulnd't find any bacterial stuff. the sample is send to a lab.
test results will come back this week.

since friday he is back in his own cage, is vocalizing and eating well.
he feels better when he steps up, not so light anymore. his weight is stable. his stools are looking as in the pictures i placed in the OP.
he is happy, looking healthy and bright again, but i don't trust it.
the AB cure was done on saturday (10 days) but i'm still continuing this untill i have the outcome from the lab.

this is him yesterday, his lumb is huge. don't know what to think of it.




avian vet is scared for cancer. i have googled and read some info and i am thinking about papilloma virus. we will have to wait for the results coming back...
 
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Tiel Feathers

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How scary that he became so sick! I'm so glad he seems to be doing better, and I hope the test results come back okay. I don't know much about papilloma, but maybe others do...

@Macawnutz @Hankmacaw @Milo
 

Hankmacaw

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I know very little about Human Papilloma Virus, but @Gimby has fought it in her GW female for a long time. I hope she can come on and give you some help.

@Macawnutz was the bump on Kailua(?) hard or soft?
 

Macawnutz

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It was a hard little lump. I felt if I left it, it would never have bled or looked infected. My vet said it was a dermo cyst and it would have caused no harm.

Rosie's sarcoma was hard too but it had a irritated look to it. I felt it was an ingrown feather and we were wrong.
 

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:sadhug2:Hope he will be OK
 

Milo

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Wait and see what the aspirate shows. Hopefully it was a good sample. What were the nose drops that were prescribed?

I don't believe that papillomas are common in parrotlets. My thought is that if there is something fungal that could be a granuloma or something like that. At this point I would definitely consider having it removed and sent for histopathology, that would be much more likely to give you diagnosis for what it is and what to expect from it in the future, if anything. If he's acting normally right now that's great. Make sure he's getting a good healthy diet and keep an eye on the poop (the first ones in this post looked fine, the other pictures didn't look horrible except for maybe a little less fecal portion and more urates)
 

Gimby

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I know very little about Human Papilloma Virus, but @Gimby has fought it in her GW female for a long time. I hope she can come on and give you some help.

@Macawnutz was the bump on Kailua(?) hard or soft?
The morning after I brought Charlie home her stool was runny - it went all over the place like (excuse the reference) diarrhea would, and had a very strong odor in the morning. Throughout the day it was runny, shot out of her all over the place hence the papilloma partially blocking her vent but not necessarily stinking like her "first thing in the morning" poops. Poops should come out all together but from what I see on the paper towel it almost looks like he had to push so hard to release his stool that from the force it went all over. Either that OR he's letting off a poop here, there, over there, more here till he gets it all out. Either way go to a vet with fresh stool sample in hand and get a blood panel and if they aren't helping get a second opinion. Hope your little guy gets better and that it is nothing serious.
 
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Gimby

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I got to say though, papillomas as far as I know and have experienced, do not show on the outside of the body. Theyre on the inside. Some can be seen around the vent as a red fleshy ball of insides. Maybe try looking at his vent? That mass though, I dunno. I'll be wondering what that is. Hoping it's just some bacteria thing that can be cured with some antibiotics.
 

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I don't have anything to add, sorry. I just wanted to say that I hope your little guy gets better soon and that it's nothing serious!
 

Vera

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I have to change the topic name, this isn't about his stool anymore...

test results came back this week. it is a tumor.
we dont't now if it is benign or malign. to test this we would have to take away a large piece of the tumor, wich is dangerous because of the blood loss with such a small bird.

my avian vet told me that it doesn't matter if it is benign or malign. if we would like to know what is going on excatly we would have to make a CT scan. this would cost 350 euro's. and still we wouldn't know for sure if we could treat it. the avian vet thinks it is in his head, in the sinuses and that this caused the infection on the other side of his nose.
to operate such a small bird would be very risky.
there aren't much options about treating cancer in such a small bird. at the moment we decided to just let him be as long as he is comfortable and happy.
we will make sure he isn't in any pain or real discomfort.

the past few days I have read a lot about turmeric and cancer, and decided to treat him in a holistic way.
this morning i have made some golden paste and mixed this with his pellets. he eats it,
hopefully this will do wonders. it is said to fight cancerous cells so we will see.

for now he is happy and healthy and maintaing a good weight. he is now fed harrison high potency super fine with TOP pellets and nutriberries to keep al the vitamins up and to support his body as much as possible.
 

Tiel Feathers

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Oh no, I'm so very sorry he has a tumor. I hope it's slow growing and the turmeric helps.
:sadhug2:
 

Flipburry

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Oh no... I'm so sorry, I hope it's treatable
 

Vera

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yesterday and today i found him in the morning with a bleeding nose and wet feathers around his eye. the tumor is growing and growing.
he is still active and eating and playfull. i don't know what to think of this. when do you know it is to much for him? i see him wipe his head and nose againts the perches and ropes and he is opening his beak a couple of times like he is unfomfortable.

don't mind the yellow feathers, it is form the turmeric.
 

merlinsmom13

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@Monica She had a small bird who survived surgery. I think it was some sort of tumor. Hope the best for him <3

Did I tag her correctly??
 

Vera

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problem is not only the surgery, but also we don't know how far it has grown, it is possible that this tumor has grown into his head/sinuses.
to know this for sure we would have to make a CT scan. this alone would cost 350 euro's and then there are the costs for a surgery, and the risk of the tumor growing back.
with all the stress and the minimum survival chances and costs we decided to just let him be for as long as he is painfree and happy.
it realy breaks my heart though....
 

alshgs

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I know the pain. I lost my conure in December to enlarged kidneys and possibly cancer and I did every test under the sun with everything coming back negative so we were stuck. I dropped him off for another test and the next day he had passed. I regret over and over not bringing him home because he may have lived for months with us or even years, but at the same time, something was hurting him, so in a way I'm glad he passed. I blamed the vet for a long time because he had a seizure after the last round of anesthesia, but my vet told me he would've passed either way and at least he was no longer in pain. So with my older gcc that has slight plucking, and an X-ray needs to be done, I decided against it. She's an older bird and has never plucked before, never been around other birds or exposed to anything dangerous, so I'm pinning it to stress. I can't lose another one to the same thing. I know your pain. I feel for you. Sending hugs
 
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