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Tara81

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Hi everyone, I have had Pablo, a cockatiel for 2 months. I got him from a pet store untamed. They said he had former owners for 2 years who could not take him with them when they moved. He is 2 1/2 years old now.

So, I made some progress but it is very slow. He slowly will eat from my hands. He still wont eat veges or pellets but they are offered daily.

He wont step up unless he is out of the cage and away from the cage, reluctantly. Is it a good idea to have him on my finger for 30 minutes every day to get him used to me ? I tried this once, he looked around for a short while for an escape route but eventually sat there preening. He is clipped since i got him, so he does not fly away.

Or should I wait for months for him to willingly come on my hand? I tried for a month now to get him to step up on my finger for a treat in his cage but he wont. He doesn't like fingers so I was wondering if this way of getting him used to my finger is good or bad?
 

alshgs

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You could try clicker training or target training. If you can find his favorite food that will help a lot. I'm not experienced with tiels but I will tag some who are

@Jaguar @Tiel Feathers and a few more but I can't remember exactly
 

Calpurnia

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I think you should let him choose to come to you. The fact that he is clipped already takes away a lot of his freedom. I don't think you should push your luck with prolonged, forced handling because there is always a chance it could back-fire in the future. Maybe he sits there now because he knows he can't get away. But this could change as soon as his wings grow out again.

I think a lot of positive reinforcement training could accomplish the same goal. Like @alshgs mentioned, clicker training can be a great hands-off way to build a relationship with a bird. Once you've built a solid foundation, it will be much easier to hand-tame him. Don't think that your relationship needs to START with getting him to step on your finger. Especially with a bird that may not have a history of positive interactions with people, it may just be better to get him excited to be around you. He could be afraid of fingers and hands because he was traumatized by them in the past. So it may make sense to befriend him BEFORE trying to overcome these phobias.

I did this with one of my budgies. He was adopted as an older bird and came to us very skittish and nervous. He was forcefully grabbed many times in the past so the sight of a hand coming towards him had him running in the opposite direction. I knew there was no way I would be able to force him onto my hand (he was also flighted). So I started with clicker and target training. First I taught him to follow the target around and do two simple tricks. After a couple weeks you could tell he was much more excited to see me coming with his training treat and was much more comfortable with people in general: instead of running to the farthest corner when I changed his dishes, he would sit very still on his perch and just watch me. At this point I started using the target to lure him onto my finger. He already knew this "game" and so was willing to give the idea a shot and not immediately run away. 2 months after getting him he was stepping onto my finger reluctantly. 6 months later and he would sit on my finger willingly, without having to be bribed with a treat. :)

So it may take time but I believe you can do something similar with your tiel.
 

Tiel Feathers

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@Calpurnia had some wonderful advice about training. Training is a great way to build a bond, manage your bird, and get him more comfortable with you. I also think that forcing him to sit on your finger is not as good as letting him do it because he wants to. Some birds don't like hands, and would rather sit and step up onto your clothed arm. Once he is on you feed him treats like millet so he thinks of it as a happy place. Two months isn't very long for a bird, but it sounds like he will slowly get used to you.
 

sunnysmom

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I never worked with my tiel in his cage. I figured that was his space and I respected that. I let him come in and out on his own. If he's happy to be with you outside of the cage, that's wonderful. I would never force a bird to sit with me for a certain length of time. I think the goal instead is to try to make him want to be with you. See if you can engage him in things and interact with him that way. And it can be little things- I would sit with my tiel and go through the mail, he would happily come over and chew on the mail I didn't need. I would sit and read a magazine and he would come and chew the edges. And keep trying to hand feed him treats. Most tiels love millet spray. Just be patient and give it time. Two months is really a short period of time and he's still adjusting. :)
 

CeciliaZ

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I agree with @sunnysmom ; his cage is his space - his "safe" place. Continue to offer treats...talk to him - but don't "force" your hands or fingers on him. Tiels in general will come around - but there are those who do not like hands or fingers. I have 5 tiels. One is very "hands off" - and has been this way all his life and I have had him for over 16 years. He will not perch on my finger - my wrists, shoulder, arm, knee are all Ok - just not my hands or fingers.

If he is eating from your hands - that is a good sign! Keep offering pellets, veggies, healthy foods. Try cutting veggies in different shapes - my birds like romaine lettuce - but prefer a section of a leaf rather than shredded. Some like carrots cut in small pieces that they can eat a small "chunk" where others like it grated. Try some veggies on a toy skewer also. Have you tried sprouting? Mine love wheatberries sprouted. They also have a mix - "Lil bird mix" from sproutpeople.org Good Luck!
 

Tara81

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Thanks guys for your guidance. He has pellets in his cage all day long. I mix some with his seed during his meals as well. I try giving him veges and every 2nd day I add sprouts in the morning for 1 hour before feeding him his seed, but he shakes his head when he tries the sprouts and throws it on the floor when he realizes their not dry seeds then leaves the bowl. It seems he has never had wet food before so he I am guessing he doesn't like the texture. I tried grinding up the pellets then sprinkling it on the seeds , but he still wont willingly eat those pellets.

Fruits + Veges I have tried that he wont eat: Lettuce, Kale, Brocolli, Carrots, Bananas, Strawberry, Apple, Cucumber.

I tried hiding millet inside of Kale, pushing seed inside of apple slices, inside of banana slices, and every morning I cut some pieces of kale carrot brocolli and give it to him with sprouts. Nothing works.

After he is done of his seed breakfast, I take it away and leave the pellets. An hour or two later if I have time I'll put some veges on a skewer, today I put a stalk of brocolli and stuffed some safflower seed in the florettes. He ate some of the seed but didnt eat the brocolli . In the daytime i give him his seeds again til the night time. I recently got some nutriberries to try to get some vitamins inside of him, and now am offering nutriberries crumbled for most of the day also in another bowl. He tried them out but it appears he is only eating the safflower seed in the nutriberry. I am so surprised after 2 months he is so reluctant to try new foods.

I am thinking about maybe trying to get him out of the cage in the morning for an hour to eat with my budgies since they eat everything , maybe they can teach him, but the few times i've introduced them, my cockatiel wants to hang out with them, and will follow them, but when my budgies try to give him kisses, he will lunge at them to tell them they are too close. I am unsure if that will encourage him to start biting or not. My budgies are just trying to preen and make friends with him but he seems more reserved and just wants to follow them with no physical interaction.
 

Tara81

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Monica it doesn't sound like thos tiels are that tame yet. Do they ever want to be around you without bribery?
 

Monica

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I'd say that when a bird demands to be fed by hand, despite not being fed by hand for several months, they are most definitely initiating physical contact! ;)


That was actually Faye and she loves scritches! She's been sick recently, so I've been keeping an extra close eye on her, and despite having to take medicine that she hates (just recently finished), she's been stepping up for me and allowing me to give her scritches. I have her separated from the flock and she enjoys coming out of her cage and a couple of times I couldn't keep her off of me! She's even flown to me! Although, I feel like some of this behavior is because she hasn't been feeling well and just wanted some comfort. Although she is doing better and no longer requires meds, she's still accepting scritches and still steps up for me.



Please understand though! The "Self-Tamed" Cockatiels thread wasn't actually trying to *tame* the cockatiels and get them to be friendly with humans. Actually, I didn't even have any intention to do so, until Sunshine chose to interact with me because of the way I was interacting with the budgies! And then Faye was watching Sunshine and wanted to interact with me in the same manner. In one video, there is food behind Faye, so she does not *need* to eat from my hands, yet she is choosing to do so.


In the end, the "goal" was simply to get the cockatiels to be less afraid of me, and it worked! And I don't even feel like I put all that much effort into working with them, either! It was just once a day for 10-20 minutes at a time!



If I could do that without even trying, what could someone do using the same, or similar approach, who actually is trying?


It also points out that birds *CAN* and *DO* learn from each other! So many people say it's difficult, if not impossible, to train 2 or more birds at once! I started with 5 adult budgies. All of them were flighted. None of them were tame or friendly. This then led to working with 5 adult cockatiels, most all flighted, and tameness ranging from skittish ex-breeder to handraised then ignored/neglected pet.



In short...
  • Age doesn't matter (all adult birds!)
  • Don't need to clip birds wings in order to tame them
  • Don't need to work with birds individually to tame them (monkey see, monkey do)
  • Food and treats can go a long way into earning a bird's trust (aka no need to use force or flooding techniques that can lead to undesirable behaviors)
  • aka If you associate good things with yourself (i.e. food/treats), birds learn to trust you and can enjoy being with you
  • Food/treats can be used to teach birds to step up and enjoy being on humans
  • and/or Food/treats can be used to train other behaviors once the bird trusts you
 

Tara81

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oh wow she steps up and accepts petting ! I'd say she definately came a long way. Glad to hear she is making a great recovery from her sickness. My Pablo doesn't step up for me yet =( I've had him for 2 months and 1 week. He sometimes eats from my hand. At first he wouldnt even do that. I guess I just have to be a lot more patient. I'm just worried he won't venture out of his cage on his own to explore if I dont force him out to get used to it. The reason I worry he won't explore is because the way he is acting, he never interacted with his former owners . He is 2 1/2 years old. I think he was in a cage for the entire time. So I am worried he will forever be cagebound.
 

Monica

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I don't know Faye's full history.... what I do know is that the first home I am aware of, she was sold or given away at a yard sale. The second home often kept her and her mate in a cage on their porch. This family then gave her and her mate to friends of the family, something like a "house warming" gift... the new family had moved, but not very far... (5 minute walking distance between homes)

The people that then had her and her mate went from feeding her crappy Wally World seed to wild bird food. When she started laying eggs, they gave her a shoebox to nest in. (thankfully, eggs never hatched!). Cleaning the food dishes literally meant dumping them on the cage bottom and refilling with new food. Mice, in broad daylight, would climb into the cage and rummage around the bottom for food. She's lucky she got out of their alive, without being physically abused.


These are the first photos I have of Faye, and her mate, before he died. (before she came to me)







The metal pan in that cage??? So rusted it had holes in it....



I believe that Faye was hand raised. I knew that she had a sweet nature to her, and I believe this is also why she accepts scritches. Not because she learned to enjoy them, but because somebody at one point in time cared for her, even if it was just her breeder.


Right now, she's pacing because she wants what the humans are eating, but she doesn't even know what it is!



Forcing Pablo out of his cage is the opposite of trust. I believe it's better to start earning a bird's trust where they most feel comfortable, and that's at the cage! In time and with patience, they can learn to enjoy your company and learn to enjoy being away from the cage. Forcing him away from his cage can result in cage aggression and avoidance behaviors. The opposite of what we want!

Does your have Parrot have a Trust account?



This photo is from tonight.

 

Tara81

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aww shes so pretty =) Pablo sometimes appears sweet but other times appears angry and rapid fires things. He isnt as scared of my hands going inside the cage, before he would move away, now he opens his beak and refuses to move from his perch if Im changing his water near him. I worry he might attack me but doesn't so far.

Heres a video of him learning to target things :)

 
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Monica

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I used to have that exact same cage!!!




I will say that it would probably be easier to work with Pablo if you had a cage with a bigger door! Some birds do not like coming out of a cage with such small doors.


I'd honestly rather have a bird that hisses at me to get away than a bird that flies off! You are doing great with him! :) I know how much you want to take him out, but trust me, you are already on the right path by clicker training him! And you can teach him to come to the door of the cage to target. You may even want to start placing perches on the outside of the cage so when you get him comfortable targeting to the door, there will be a perch waiting for him if he wants to come out! And then you can work on targeting around the outside of the cage! Once he's comfortable with that, move towards targeting near the cage but not quite at the cage! If you have a gym or something that could easily be moved, you could teach him to step onto the gym and then move that around!

Likewise, stepping up is a form of targeting! So you could teach him to step up from a perch on the outside of the cage then have him step down. Repeat this using the target and reward system, then you can work on teaching him to stay put for longer and longer periods of time, then work on having him comfortable being away from the cage! Maybe it's 6" away, then it's 12" away! Start small! :)
 

Tara81

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Yeah he doesnt step up. He also doesnt target the stick if its at another perch. I think because he is clipped he has little confidence with moving around. I wish the pet store never clipped him.

Wow I bought the cage 2nd hand from the pet store. Do you know its brand ? I am curious what the cage is made of
 

Monica

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You might just try and see if he'll target around the cage walls rather than targeting to another perch.


The cage I had was given to me along with a HOEI flight cage and grass parakeets. If I ever did figure out what brand it was, I don't recall. I remember it didn't have any identifying markers on it! But that it was a very unique, old style cage! One I had came with glass that fit around the bottom - until I accidentally shattered every single one of them.... also lost one of the doors in transport and couldn't get the legs to stay on after getting the cage.


Any record I may have had about the brand of cage would have been on another forum... which is no longer around. Sorry!
 

Tara81

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It's ok. Lately it seems like Pablo is more scared of hands then before. He bit me today with no warning when I tried to give him a sunflower seed. I'm really sad it's been 3 months and he doesn't want to be near me still. I thought he would start liking me by now. One good thing that happened lately is he is starting to eat some sprouted millet and maybe some other seed. Also he started eating pellets a little since I added a mirror near the pellet bowl. I really had to trick him to eat the sprouts by hiding them in rebgular seeds. He shakes his head when he eats the sproutsbut he's not throwing them no more. I was able to get him to touch a kale leaf for a treat with targeting training . He is tasting but not eating it. Still offering veges daily but still no luck with that.

I really think he won't ever be tame. Should I just stop giving him treats and target training him? Maybe he would like me better if I stop trying.
 

Tara81

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I am just losing hope he will ever like me.
 

Monica

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Sure, give training a break! Then try again in a week or two.

He can be trained, you just need to figure out how to work with him.
 

Tara81

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I want him to be tame not so much trained. I want him to hang out with me outside of the cage :( I do target training as a form of bonding but I guesss he won't warm up to me ever
 
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