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is essential oil safe?

Discussion in 'Safety Avenue' started by shmog, 5/10/18.

  1. jmfleish

    jmfleish Cruising the avenue Celebirdy of the Month Premium Vendor Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    I think that when we hear about all the damage they can and do do to cats and dogs, the obvious choice not to use them, especially with our birds is a good choice. I won't risk it.
     
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  2. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Tea tree oil is also known and sold to gardeners as "Neem Oil". I use it to spray my plants, because ti kills everything including grasshoppers, aphids, borers. army beetles and tomatoes worms.... That's pretty nasty stuff.

    Like @jmfleish I choose not to take the risk. And I certainly don't want my bird to be a guinea pig, since there is no hard science on it's use with parrots and respiratory damage. Like with Pulmonary Hypersensitivity Syndrome, which is real and deadly, EOs may cause damage over years of use and kill your bird slowly. "Oil" is still the operative word and volatile organic compounds could be another.
     
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  3. finchly

    finchly Biking along the boulevard Mayor of the Avenue Vendor Tailgating Party! I Can't Stop Posting!

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    Yet Neem tea is safe and useful in the aviary..

    Here’s the thing. You can’t just go to a store (Walmart) and buy something off the shelf and use it around your birds, there is too much at stake. Oils that are not quality could have who-knows-what in them. Some have been tested and dont even have what they claim to have.

    Others have no place around birds. Example- ‘hot’ oils like cinammon. That could kill your bird fast if you diffuse it.

    AND a bird under 1 year old is still developing lungs and should not be exposed to ANY oils. Ever.

    So you’ve got to (1) have knowledge (2) pay for quality oils (3) find scientific evidence.

    I want to stress I am NOT an aromatherapist, I have taken the courses but am not an expert. I *am* gathering info on oils but it’s extremely slow (oils with parrots I mean) because I require untainted independent scientific testing.... I do have a biology/math background that helps me know which tests are not only valid but ‘good enough’ and there aren’t many or at least I haven’t found them. I won’t use my birds as a testing ground either. So....yeah. It’s slow.

    In case you wonder why I say I have this education and that one, I’m sort of addicted to learning, and when I learn I don’t do it half heartedly I become obsessed. :D

    Yes. You want independent scientific testing. Not from the company that makes the oils, if it is manufacturer testing I discount it. I prefer university scientists but there are 2 who are not university affiliates who work only on oils and their components. They don’t work with birds however. Very frustrating.

    Completely agree.

    Cats are very different from dogs, they’re sensitive to lots of things. So the two are not really in the same category, maybe we should lump cats with birds. If you don’t want to use them - don’’t . If you had an ongoing health issue (for example) in one of your fids, then you might be tempted to reach beyond typical veterinary care. That’s how I ended up into herbs and oils, because of chronic health problems, my own not my pets’, that no one could cure traditionally.
     
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  4. finchly

    finchly Biking along the boulevard Mayor of the Avenue Vendor Tailgating Party! I Can't Stop Posting!

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    When my Tucker Tiel was dying for 10 agonizing days and the vet did not help him.....how I wish I had known what to do! Herbs, oils, I would have tried anything. I didn’t because of lack of knowledge, or lack of trust in those who made suggestions. :(
     
  5. painesgrey

    painesgrey Jogging around the block

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    I don't really think that calling people close-minded is a valid way of arguing your point. Resorting to making it personal just makes it seem like you can't really refute the evidence that is being put in front of you.

    So I'm going to make two additional points. I know they won't change the minds of people who already have their minds made up, but at least maybe the newcomers who come to read this thread will take it to heart.

    It is my belief that when dealing with pets, whom cannot consent to treatment and cannot voice to us that they don't feel well, that treatments must be proven safe. How does one prove safety? Through the scientific study - drawing up a thesis, conducting a well-controlled study, and drawing a conclusion.

    People using essential oils around their birds with no (obvious or immediate) ill-effects does not constitute a valid scientific study. It is anecdotal.

    Likewise, toxicity has been shown to be possible through the increased and widely-reported essential oil toxicity cases that many vets can personally recount. This fact is irrefutable.

    Now, think of grape toxicity in dogs. Everyone knows that grapes are toxic to dogs, but by and large the reason WHY they're toxic isn't known. But just because there can't prove why grapes or toxic - or because some dogs seem to tolerate eating them - doesn't make them safe.
     
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  6. camelotshadow

    camelotshadow Cruising the avenue Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Veteran Tailgating Party! I Can't Stop Posting! POSTAHOLIC

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    :omg:

    I did not know:omg:/Mom said something about it when we gave the dog raisin bread,,,

    #Why????

    :faint:

     
  7. Gazimon

    Gazimon Meeting neighbors

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    My question is... if you were appointed to conduct a scientitic study, how would it be designed? Via animal testing? By exposing birds to increasing doses of breathable EO for the sake of science? If birds start showing mild stresses to certain levels of EO, would the treatment continue for the sake of publishable results?

    We subjects animals to it everyday... so its easy to put it out of our minds and live guilt-free, eg. cosmetic industry
     
  8. camelotshadow

    camelotshadow Cruising the avenue Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Veteran Tailgating Party! I Can't Stop Posting! POSTAHOLIC

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    I do use neem oil to spray plants for fungus & things. Never knew it was tea tree oil....

    I do like homeopathic medicine but I still would use caution when treating birds & you can never know for sure how an EO oil was prepared or cut or if it would be bird safe...Just a gamble I would not be willing to make.
     
  9. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor Tailgating Party! BINGO CHAMPION I Can't Stop Posting! POSTAHOLIC

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    Neem oil is from Azadirachta indica, an evergreen in India.

    Tea tree oil is from Melaleuca alternifolia in Australia.

    I'll try to post more on this thread tomorrow. I DO think that many oils should be avoided for most pets, especially cats but I also think they could have their place with birds. I think there is a lot of wrong and dangerous information out there propagated by multi level marketing company reps that don't know better or do and don't care because it would hurt sales. Things that aren't safe to use on a child under 6 or 10 (yes, those exist, and it includes stuff like eucalyptus!) I would never use around birds.

    It is really hard to make assumptions based on cats and dogs. Things that are toxic to them are safe for birds. Heck, did you know dark chocolate is recommended for rats as temporary relief for respiratory problems? Yet for dogs, dark chocolate is the worst kind! Cats metabolize things very differently which is what causes the issues with oils.

    I don't diffuse much anymore. They help me a lot with depression, anxiety, and allergies. But I have birds, cats, rats, and a 3 year old sonand it's exhausting making sure everything is safe.

    Do I think copaiba oil diffused near Gizmo for short bursts a few times a week helped give her arthritis relief? Yes. Can I prove it? No.
     
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  10. Shezbug

    Shezbug Strolling the yard

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    Thank you! I did have a giggle to myself when I read that neem oil is the same thing as tea tree oil.
     
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  11. LSA

    LSA Strolling the yard

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    Mammals have aveoli inside the lungs to transfer good gases into the blood. They expel both good and bad gases. Birds do not have aveoli per se. Instead, gases go through the lungs into outside air sacs where deposited directly into the blood. Unlike mammals where gases stay in the lungs until expelled, gases taken in by birds are assigned to the appropriate air sac until used. Thus, birds hold onto and build up toxins in outside-the-lung air sacs whereas a mammal will simply breath them out.
     
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  12. LSA

    LSA Strolling the yard

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    Neem Oil is quite costly so many of us use instead a mix of Dawn dish soap and water as an insecticide. Dawn is sold in large containers at wholesale prices. Unlike Neem Oil, this mix must be sprayed 3-4 times throughout each growing season but is still more cost-efficient. Another alternative gaining popularity in the organic world is the use of Sunflowers to attract both good and bad insects.
     
  13. painesgrey

    painesgrey Jogging around the block

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    Yes, you would have to subject the birds to EOs, likely of different types, methods (topical, ingested, diffused), and concentrations, and observe the results. They likely would want to see under what circumstances they become toxic, and to what degree. Do they cause respiratory distress, acute respiratory failure, irreparable harm to organ function, death, etc.

    That's how scientific studies work, unfortunately. Products like Frontline, Advantage, Bravecto, and all the other medications vets prescribe to pets every day all go through animal testing. Those ones that say, "do not use on pregnant or lactating animals", how do you think they know? Because they tested it on pregnant and lactating animals.

    These products, to be legally prescribed, have to be tested in such a way. In many cases, animals are euthanized after trials to determine possible internal and organ damage. This is the ugly price of science. It's not quite on par with the inhumanity of cosmetic testing (we don't *need* cosmetics, and products not tested on animals are often an option), but it is undeniably a very bitter pill to swallow.
     
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  14. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor Tailgating Party! BINGO CHAMPION I Can't Stop Posting! POSTAHOLIC

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    Because it was mentioned (obviously not as a recommendation) - DON'T EAT EOs! Don't feed them to yourself, don't feed them to your pets. If anyone is telling you to eat them, they don't know what they are doing.
     
  15. LSA

    LSA Strolling the yard

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    You got lucky! Not all dogs die from grape/raisin ingestion. Often a dog will vomit them up before dying!
    DON'T FEED BIRDS GRAPES UNLESS PEELED! The chemicals used to grow grapes settles and stays in the skin. Don't bother peeling them since they are of very limited nutritional value. When you're driving LONG distances, you can use them instead of water but it's better to use fruits like peaches and plums instead.
     
  16. painesgrey

    painesgrey Jogging around the block

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    Glad you said it, because both doTERRA and Young Living carry and support "edible" EOs.

    These are two of the most cited, supported, and marketed brands of EO.
     
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  17. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Vendor Tailgating Party! BINGO CHAMPION I Can't Stop Posting! POSTAHOLIC

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    Yep, and it drives me insane. They claim that their oils as "so pure you can eat them!" yet if they were truly pure, volatile, potent essential oils, they would NOT be recommending that. There's a disconnect there.
     
    Last edited: 5/16/18 at 7:55 AM
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