"Intensive Love"- Opinions, Experiences?

[PeaceLoveDreamer]

I was on Land of Vos (Eclectus Parrots) doing some research to hopefully help me make more progress with Sonny, my male eclectus who has gotten cage aggressive and has always been very nervous of my hand anywhere but in front of his face giving him a treat or under his belly for a step-up. I have successfully gotten him to use the T-perch to come out of his cage (and he does so now with no nervousness- he used to scream like a banshee when I put the stick in there to get him out), and he has learned to re-trust me hand once outside of the cage and will step up without warning-lunges at my hand. But I was looking for some info that was more "Ekkie specific", and I found this:

What is the "Intensive Love" method of taming?
Once upon a time, two of my young Eclectus males staged a coup in an attempt to become rulers of the roost. They were great buddies and experts at getting into trouble. These mischievous young hooligans became feathered thugs who tried to bully their flockmates, both feathered and human, with the threat of biting. After having no luck with the usual methods of dealing with biting, I experimented with what later was described as "Intensive Love" sessions. I was quite surprised at how quickly they started to "love me too much to bite me". This method wins parrots over with love, rather than controlling them through fear.
I also use the method with birds that have never learned to enjoy being touched and stroked due to their fear of hands or close contact. Many birds are deprived for years of the pleasure of bodily contact with their human flockmates because they lunge at the owner out of fear, thereby making the owner fearful of being bitten. By gently covering the bird's head and body, the fear of biting is temporarily removed and the bird can then discover the pleasure of being petted. Work with your bird when he's most relaxed and receptive to interaction.
DIRECTIONS: If the bird will step up on your hand without biting, pick him up and bring him to a towel, baby blanket, or soft T-shirt on your chest. Fold the unused portion of the cover over the bird, covering him completely -- his head should also be covered so that he will not be able to bite you. If you cannot pick up the bird without being bitten, gently towel him and place him on your chest, completely covered. Once he's covered, stroke him gently through the cover and if he squirms, you can distract him by rocking your body back and forth or rocking in a chair. Singing or whispering softly to him is also reassuring. The first time that I tried this with one of the male Eclectus hooligans, he relaxed and actually started kissing loudly. Rather than continuing until he's exhausted, keep the session short and sweet. Several five-minute sessions daily are better than one ten or fifteen minute sessions because the bird will tire of it in that length of time, and you might too. Short sessions are just as effective and more enjoyable. It will be easier for both of you if the bird is first made comfortable with the cover that you use.
When a cover is used to remove the fear of biting, you will be able to show affection and once he realizes that you want to enter his personal space to show him affection rather than aggression, he will lose his fear and become comfortable enough to return your affection. The basic nature of the Eclectus is friendly and non-aggressive, and biting is nearly always a fear response. When they lunge at your approaching hand, it is usually an attempt to protect themselves. The Intensive Love method gives a fearful bird a chance to realize that there is nothing to fear from the owner. However, a bird with a phobic fear of being covered is not a candidate for this method! It will take longer to win them over but, steady trust building day by day will eventually achieve the same results.

(source: Frequently Asked Eclectus Questions)

It seemed a little... well... different to me, but I decided to give it a try today, and aside from Sonny biting through the fabric and screeching quite a bit in the beginning, he began to calm down enough so that I could rub the top of his head and and show him what a head rub felt like (I did uncover his head so that I could do this, but since he was essentially toweled he couldn't bite at me, and just bit the fabric). I honestly don't know how I feel about it, but I did notice he showed a little bit less aggression after it, and if I would put my hand near is face, he would watch my hand dutifully (as always) but he wouldnt strike at it.... so could this be progress?

I wanted to know what everyone here thought of this... if you have heard of it before, and if not what your opinions are. I do not know if I want to do it again because I did feel like I was forcing him into a position he wasn't comfortable with, but I know Land of Vos is a reputable site and I did see a slight calming of Sonny after this.

Any ideas, anyone?

 

[Bokkapooh]

People call it "toweling" to tame them. I don't do this as I like giving the bird a choice but I know it works. I do know that Louie came around when he ran under a blanket. That helped build trust very well. But that was choice, he came to me.

 

[PeaceLoveDreamer]

People call it "toweling" to tame them. I don't do this as I like giving the bird a choice but I know it works. I do know that Louie came around when he ran under a blanket. That helped build trust very well. But that was choice, he came to me.

Yea that is what I am battling with here. I felt like he had no choice in the matter and it didn't seem very nice, but the way it was described I thought "hey, maybe he'll actually realize that touch is nice", because when I do not have him restrained, he will not let me touch anything other than the tip of his tail (with reluctance) and his lower belly, so I kinda want him to know that me rubbing his head can be a nice experience. So I am kinda torn on whether or not I want to do it again as part of our training routine.

 

[love4birds]

In my opinion this is an old school method of taming birds, with a new romanticized name slapped on to make it sound positive, to be honest I would consider this a form of flooding.

Maybe he just doesn't like having his head rubbed? I haven't met a whole ton of ekkies, but all of the ones I've met, sweet as they were, were not cuddlers at all. Maybe some do enjoy it, but regardless I would not force the issue

 

[PeaceLoveDreamer]

In my opinion this is an old school method of taming birds, with a new romanticized name slapped on to make it sound positive, to be honest I would consider this a form of flooding.

Maybe he just doesn't like having his head rubbed? I haven't met a whole ton of ekkies, but all of the ones I've met, sweet as they were, were not cuddlers at all. Maybe some do enjoy it, but regardless I would not force the issue

Thanks for the input. I feel like your right, honestly. I dont expect him to be a "cuddly" bird, but it is always good to be able to touch your bird without a head swinging around at you. I try to train my birds to accept my touch just in case something happens and I need to check on them, or I need to bring them to the vet and he has to check on them. Sonny won't even allow me to touch his wings, so I couldn't even check under them if I needed to. I was hoping teaching him to let me reach over his head would help this, but the more I think about it, the more I think this is probably not the best idea... I don't want any bird to feel forced into anything. Hopefully in time with more training he will let me get closer to touching his wings/back without such a strong method. If not, I will concede defeat lol.

 

[JLcribber]

That's just a bunch of fancy words for flooding as Megan said.

 

[Addi Kohler]

Was the bird physically harmed?

Did you notice any difference in the mental state of your bird afterward?

I'm guessing not.

This approach has been used successfully to "tame" many different animals for ages, from parrots, to raptors, and even elephants.

IMO, forcing an organism to do something against their will is not always bad. How many of our companion animals wanted to take medication, get a shot, wear a collar, or go to a vet? How many willingly came to live with us without some level of fear or anxiety? Not many, and yet, most eventually learn we actually love and care about them, and become integral parts of our families.

While it would be great if we could eliminate every aspect of fear through communication, or treats, or whatever, that's just not possible with every animal under every circumstance. Animals, just like people, have individual temperaments, and just like people, exposure to their fears can certainly eliminate those fears when they realize their fear is unfounded. Forced or not.

A spoonful of sugar may make the medicine go down, but it comes after the medicine, regardless of whether or not the kid wants the medicine in the first place.

 

[GlassOnion]

Flooding isn't necessarily bad, I find it very useful for taming and desensitizing. I'm an advocate of flooding when practised appropriately.

If I had never 'forced love' on Apple, he would still be the bird who absolutely hated being touched, which is what his old owner said. Now, Apple is a huge cuddle bug who loves nothing more than scratches and kisses.

 

[ashbirdlady]

You can train your bird with positive reinforcement. No need for flooding or forcing.
Here is a great site to get you started.
Written Works: Learning and Behavior - BehaviorWorks.com
Boy, if some one tried that on me I would probably do what ever it took to escape and be extremely cranky afterwards. I would totally dump that so called "friend"

 

[love4birds]

I agree with Christa. In my opinion, the least intrusive method is always the best. Would you rather a person tie you up and make you spend time with them to become their friend? Or would you rather slowly build a friendship with them? Just because birds aren't people doesn't mean they don't deserve that respect.

Administering medication or getting a physical examination done by a vet is necessary. Touching a bird's back/head/wings/whatever (while I understand and agree with Jacqui's reasoning behind it) is beneficial, not necessary.

 

[PeaceLoveDreamer]

You guys all gave great input on this matter. And I do see the pros and cons. No, Sonny was not harmed in any way, and mentally he seemed pretty much the same, just slightly less aggressive towards my hand (if I would hold it near his head, he would look at it, but not lunge, which he had been doing prior), he would only lunge at me if I DID touch him. I understand he is an ekkie and ekkies are not known for their cuddliness, but the fact that people are saying that this DOES work is interesting to me. It makes sense that it works but I don't want to overpower my bird. But if he won't let me get close enough to let me touch him any other way, then it makes sense why people would use the method.

Thank you, Christa, for that link. I will be reading the articles today. It seems like there is a lot of great information on there.

 

[Holiday]

My understanding is that while flooding can be useful for approaching some human phobias, it is not a good animal training method and can have negative longterm repercussions, such as "tameness" in the form of "learned helplessness," especially if trust is breached and/or the animal is forced too often. Here's some information from a very reputable source:

The Risks of Response Blocking
Response blocking is called flooding for a reason: When it doesn’t work the animal sinks rather than swims. When it does work, flooding results in a rapid reduction in fearful behavior; however it is just as likely to result in overwhelming stress, anxiety, and lasting generalized aversion to the people present during the flooding episode and elements in the environment at large. Flooding can result in such intense resistance that physical harm can occur to the birds and people. Additionally, there is considerable research that shows the long term detrimental effects of repeated exposure to uncontrollable aversive events with both animals and people (Mazur, 2002), as is the case with repeated flooding. Learned helplessness is one such dire outcome. Learned helplessness is the expectation that one's behavior has little or no effect on the environment. This expectation results from repeated exposure to uncontrollable aversive events without opportunity to escape. Research has shown that animals subjected to this condition often suffer a loss of motivation and do not even try to affect their environment even when they can. They give up easily and show significant deficits in learning and performance. Emotional problems are frequently observed as well, for example, rats developed ulcers; cats ate less; humans suffered increased blood pressure; and monkeys became ill (Maier and Seligman, 1976).

Another worry is the recent practice of demonstrating flooding on birds at bird club meetings. Aside from the blatant disrespect shown the already fearful animal by flooding it in such a casual setting, research suggests that short duration flooding sessions, as is the case at many bird club demonstrations, can increase fears (Staub, 1968; Yule, et.al., 1974) and very likely increases associated aggression as well . This may account for the frequently reported short-term effects of these demonstrations with birds.

I and many other behaviorists (e.g. Burch and Bailey, 1999; Morgenstern, 1973; Martin, 2002), experienced bird trainers (Biro, 2002; Martin, 2002, Morrow, 2002) and bird caretakers believe that this procedure is not a humane method of dealing with aggression or fear, especially in light of the many validated positive alternatives. To better assess the ethics of this procedure, I challenge readers to think truly for one minute about your greatest fear: Is it snakes? Spiders or rock ledges? The dark when you are alone, bridges or tight spaces? Now, imagine being grabbed by your leg, wrapped tightly in a sheet and restrained in the presence of this feared stimulus or condition with no control and no possibility of escape. For some of you, if restrained long enough, this feeling of sweat-breaking, breath-robbing panic will extinguish. Now, answer this: Is the effectiveness of a technique really the only criterion for selecting best practices with our companion parrots in light of gradual, positive alternatives?

The Science of Alternatives

There are many alternative strategies to response blocking and flooding. Systematic desensitization is one highly effective and commonly used technique for reducing fears. With systematic desensitization, the bird is slowly presented with tolerable amounts or durations of the feared object or condition. The bird is never allowed to experience a high level of fear. When the bird shows comfort behaviors at one level on the fear hierarchy (such as preening or shaking tail feathers) the bird is rewarded with praise or other reinforcers and the feared object is moved closer to the bird or the bird moved closer to the feared condition. This gradual process is continued until the bird shows no fear whatsoever when presented with the feared object or situation. Done perceptively, systematic desensitization can be relatively quick and remarkably successful. It is a joyful process to see fear melt away to be replaced with resilience and confidence!

Another strategy for reducing fear is called targeting. With targeting the bird is taught through positive reinforcement to touch a designated object or part of an object such as the end of a chop stick. Once the bird has mastered targeting you can facilitate your bird moving out of his cage by following the target stick. You can also target the bird to move closer and closer to someone’s hand where he can be rewarded for increasing the duration of hand perching. Few strategies are more thrilling than shaping a bird to your hand gently by rewarding small steps toward the final destination. Targeting allows you to keep the rate of reinforcement high which more quickly establishes you the caretaker as a reinforcer, as well! See http://community-2.webtv.net/Lincomacaws/Tgt/ for a more complete explanation of targeting.

Differential reinforcement of alternative behaviors is a highly effective approach for reducing aggressive behavior. Paired with a careful reading of your birds’ body language to avoid those bites, differential reinforcement consists of rewarding the behaviors you want to see more while at the same time ignoring those unwanted behaviors. In this way, problem behaviors are decreased using positive reinforcement not punishment! For example, biting can be replaced with a vocalization to signal to you that your bird feels uncomfortable with what you are doing; lunging can be replaced with picking up a foot toy; and, charging can be replaced with going to a designated perch. I highly recommend Karen Pryor’s book, Don't Shoot the Dog: The New Art of Teaching and Training - Revised Edition, (1999), Bantam Publishers, available at Karen Pryor Clickertraining, and Steve Martin’s website at Natural Encounters, Inc. for more information about teaching with positive reinforcement.

Teaching plans should always begin with the least intrusive, most positive methods available to us not only because they are highly effective but also because they are, simply, more humane. Because we can. In the great majority of cases, building trusting relationships gradually through the skilled application of positive reinforcement will get you to your goals with no risk of distress or harm. By teaching adaptive, desirable behaviors to your bird you will replace aggression and fear with competence and confidence. With each new behavior learned, teaching the next behavior will happen faster and more easily, as your bird learns to learn from you. Your bird’s trust will grow in proportion to your skill as a teacher. Aversive procedures like response blocking threaten this outcome for you and your bird. The goal is to empower not overpower your bird.

Alternatives to Breaking Parrots | Association of Animal Behavior Professionals

 

[Bokkapooh]

It's better to use positive reinforcement to get an animal to like touch, not flooding.

 

[Mizzely]

I can see the pros and cons of this, and I think it could be an effective measure when used in limited quantity. Instead of doing it daily, what if it was done once a week or less for 5 minutes? This way it could reinforce you don't mean to harm him, and then he can use the rest of the time to watch you closer and see that without the toweling, you still don't mean any harm.

It reminds me of how we got our cat to stop being afraid of strangers, to the point where she would hide under the bed for almost a full day after they had left. We would have people come over and would hold her in our lap to keep her out there. She was afraid and would squirm, and after 5 minutes she stopped being afraid and started to get curious instead. We then would let her go and let her do what she wanted to do. We repeated this a few times over the course of a month, and then moved away from that to bringing out a toy that only came out when strangers were around. She is still skittish around people, but will venture out to see who it is, and doesn't dehydrate herself after they are gone due to fear; she's out within about 10 minutes now. In a way, since she was held against her will to be in the same room as people she didn't know, this is similar to your intensive love session and I don't think she is at all mentally scarred or anything. In fact, she has gained more confidence and is a happier cat.

 

[Wasabisaurus]

Warning; strong opinions follow....not meant to poo poo any poster's opinions....

Intensive love? Seriously? Covering a bird in a towel, not letting it see momentarily and making it stay to submit to the handler is hardly loving. "Love me to much to fear me"? What? That's insane. IN-SANE.

"...wins the parrots over with love instead of controlling them with fear?"

For real? That IS control. They are being taught the towel and the handler are to be feared. So, uh, yeah - FEAR. This is wrong at best. Birds don't use human logic. If someone toweled another person and kept him or her captive, would (s)he enjoy that unless (s)he was into some kind of alternative lifestyle thing? Any other person would fight like h*ll to escape.

"Many birds are deprived for years of the pleasure of bodily contact with their human flockmates because they lunge at the owner out of fear, thereby making the owner fearful of being bitten. By gently covering the bird's head and body, the fear of biting is temporarily removed and the bird can then discover the pleasure of being petted."

Gag me. That fear would be *compounded.* Most birds don't *need* bodily contact with human. They aren't wired that way. I guess 'toos might, (?????) but I do not know that firsthand - it's only what I have read. Anyway, birds may cuddle with other birds, but it's a learned behavior to cuddle with humans. Covering a birds head so it can be distracted and then forced to be held is just wrong.

No. Wrong.

 

[GlassOnion]

Just wanted to add since it's come up a few times- positive reinforcement does not mean 'good' reinforcement. Positive means adding a stimulus to reinforce a behaviour and negative means taking away a stimulus to increase a behaviour. So negative reinforcement is not punishment.