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I think Wonka laid a bloody and deformed egg!

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WingedVictory

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Once you have the Doxyvet in hand it will have the mg of doxy per ml of fluid and you can go from there. Check back in if you need help on dosages.

gary
 

srtiels

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The only pix's I have are from cockatiels...but below shows ascites, and also the yellowed skin with ascites from ongoing peritonitis. Pipercillin type antibiotics have been the most effective for this type of problem. Many times an infection in the oviary (3rd pix) can cause this, especially if the infected yolk misses, entering the oviduct (4th pix)

As to your pix the keelbone looks abnormal. Most likely due to nutritional decefiencies, especially calcium. Thus, if the bird is calcium defecient you'lll have to avoid using an antibiotic that contains tetracyclines (like Doxy) because I beleive (not 100% sure) it binds to calcium.
 

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srtiels

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Sorry...I'm new to posting here and the pix's are not in order as stated above...but should be easy to figure which is which.

In looking back on your pix's at the skintone. If very dark it would be from dehydration, but this sentence had me look again:
The reason I didn't do the worm testing is because
If you had ttreated for parasites she may be anemic. The skintone looks like possibly anmeic. A suppliment of the B vitamins might help. Or if you have Brewers Yeast it can be sprinkled on any foods she will eat. With seeds I will lightly mist, sprinkle the BY on, let dry, then give the bird.
 

WingedVictory

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Here is some information on Doxy and calcium and when to administer the antibiotic. Doxy does bind with calcium and makes it less efficient.

Different types of antibiotics interact with calcium.

Quinolones: Calcium can interfere with the body's ability to absorb quinolone antibiotics (such as ciprofloxacin or Cipro; levofloxacin, norfloxacin or Noroxin; and ofloxacin). Take calcium supplements 2 - 4 hours before or after taking quinolone antibiotics
Tetracyclines: Calcium can interfere with the body's ability to absorb tetracycline antibiotics (including doxycycline, minocycline, and tetracycline). Take calcium supplements 2 -4 hours before or after taking quinolone antibiotics.



I have to agree other antibiotics may be better but can you purchase them in AU without prescription?

gary
 

srtiels

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OK...I was just outside feeding the birds and was thinking. The vets won't treat feral pigeons...but does anyone in your area breed domestic pigeons and doves? You might do an internet search for pigeon clubs, or phone major seed suppliers to see if they have customers that buy pigeon food. There has to be someone experienced with pigeons to help.
 

chompie_puppy

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I'm so very confused! :( I'm sorry, but I'm just not sure what to do for Wonka anymore. I just don't know what's going on and what I need to give her or what I need to do for her. :( Sorry, I'm very new to all these problems.

Yes, you do find domestic pigeon breeders in Australia. They seem to be very rare in Queensland (where I live) and more common in other states such as NSW. Compared to the other Australian states, Queensland is exceptionally strict when it comes to animals. We are legally not allowed to have pet rabbits and ferrets in Queensland while these animals are readily available in other states and can easily be found in 90% of pet shops there.

I think pet pigeons need to be banded in Queensland. Is there any way I can get a band around Wonka's leg so that I can take her in to the vet?
 
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WingedVictory

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You are doing great. I would get the fecal and gram stain done and see what the results are. Since Vetafarm is doing fecal and grams they will be able to point you to one of their products once the results are in.

gary
 

JLcribber

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You said she is doing well right now. I would just keep giving her good food and lots of love and let nature take it's course. JMHO
 

srtiels

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Can any of the pigeon breeders outside of your area be contacted by email?

As others have said you are doing great. The main thing is to get some weight back on her. You might be able to find some pigeon forums on the internet and ask questions, without disclosing the type of pigeon you have, for advice. You might even try US forums where they won't be so predjudical to deral/wild pigeons. They may be able to tell you what is was she passed, and look at the other pix's for an idea of state off health and what is needed.

From your pix's it does not look like peritonitis...which is good. How does her droppings look especially the urates...white part. if that is discolored yellow or pale bright green it could be a bacterial infection or something with the liver function. If she had a problem with her liver this could also account for the weight loss and weakness.

(((HUGS)))
 

chompie_puppy

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I joined a pigeon forum when I first found Wonka (here is the thread I posted on there about this "egg" thing - http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/i-think-wonka-laid-a-bloody-and-deformed-egg-41459.html)

No-one really knows what it is or what to do. I've had less replies on there than I have here. And lots of conflicting information too. :(

Maybe I should just risk a vet visit? Maybe I can try to convince my avian vet that someone gave me this "pet" pigeon because it was looking ill and they didn't want it anymore. It's risky, but it might work...

Her droppings have a lot of urine in it. The actual fecal parts are solid "tubes" and not the normal pigeon poop shape which are tight balls. It varies between being either darkish green or brown.

There has been no urates present in her poop since I've found her. Since passing this "egg" thing I've found some slimy urates every now and then in her poop. It is perfectly white but isn't solid. It is slimy and kinda mixed in with the urine.
 

Kimba

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You are doing a great job! So don't worry. Personally, from everything that has been said...........if I were you, I would come to the conclusion that you don't really know what came out of the birds, but if she is doing better than your next priority should be the weight gain. Your pics look good, just severely under weight. And, we must remember that tis is a pigeon, not a parrot. Pigeons have evolved to over come amazing odds both in health and in environment. They eat things that should kill them, they raise thir young in places where the babies should die. They are extremely hardy and over come most things. As far as testing goes.......if she is gaining weight, and feeling better, I'm not sure what testing will accomplish. while she could be harboring some diseases, she has most likely had them for some time, and they might not be bothering her, but she might be contagious to other birds. That would be common, but again nothing you could fix. I would continue supportive care, she has already been wormed, IDK what the effect of adding antibiotics might do? Sometimes you can over do it and make things worse. I would say if she continues to get better over the next day, than do nothing but focus on weight.

URATES:
Yellow urates can be a sign of liver damage, kidney problems, or peritonitis.

FECAL MATTER:
Bright red or black droppings....red is undigested blood, black is digested blood. Bright lime green droppings may be a sign of Psittacosis a
Undigested food or seed in droppings......PDD
Fecal matter that does not hold any shape is considered diarrhea which can be from bacterial or fungal problems.
Fecal matter that is too dry is a sign of dehydration.
 

Kimba

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pigeon poo also might differ from parrot poo. Slimy to me if it were a parrot would give me cause for concern in the realm of bacterial or swollen/irrated intestines, the excess mucus (slime) would make me think that. And well after passing that thing, it would be no wonder as to intestinal irritation.

No urates is a problem. What do you have available for an electrolyte solution that is not high in sodium?

also...The absence of urates for more than a half a day requires an immediate vet exam ,(from winged wisdom) but it does not say why. I would think dehydration, or kidney failure.
 
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chompie_puppy

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She drinks like a horse! There is a lot of urine so I didn't think dehydration was a problem. :( I only have Gatorade available at the moment, but I can buy some pedialyte tomorrow morning?

How do I help her gain weight?

I've been feeding her a very fatty diet for the last two days (black oil sunflower seeds - which she loves - and also chopped up nuts). She's definitely been eating those as well as her regular see mix.
 
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Beatriz Cazeneuve

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Kelsey, it would be great if you could get her to a vet but she is doing much better than when you found her and I would not worry too much over that thing she passed. She doesn't have peritonitis and the fecal is really not going to do you much good. Doxy is a good antibiotic for birds but it's only really good for respiratory infections... I would try to contact a dove breeder and put the matter to him/her to see what he/she says but, personally, I agree with Kimba, pigeons are incredible survivors and, 99% of the time, all they need is a warm, quiet, safe place with good food and water to get better on their own so just keep on doing what you are doing and just keep an eye on her, there is always time to try the vet if she starts getting worse. As to her flesh been dark, it's not because she is dehydrated, pigeon flesh is always dark like that.
 

srtiels

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Her droppings have a lot of urine in it. The actual fecal parts are solid "tubes" and not the normal pigeon poop shape which are tight balls. It varies between being either darkish green or brown.

There has been no urates present in her poop since I've found her. Since passing this "egg" thing I've found some slimy urates every now and then in her poop. It is perfectly white but isn't solid. It is slimy and kinda mixed in with the urine.

----------------------------------------------------
The dark green may be from slow gut transit. Brown can be from what she is eating. If blood is suspected, some feces can be swabbed onto a white peice of paper, and held up to the light If digested blood it will vary from a reddish brown rust color to a chockolate color. If the feces looks dark green this is slow gut transit. The problem with slow transit thru the GI tract is that the body is still trying to absorb nutrients, and if there are any harmful pathogens in the GI ytract these are also being absorbed into the blood stream and organs.

The slimeyness would be from the feces and it would be an indication of a parasite problem.

No urates or thin watery, or gritty urates are an indication or renal/kidney problems.

The urine should be totally clear. If there is bleeding it can be pink tinges. With a bacterial problem sometimes it can be slightly green or yellow tinged.

A probiotic or acidophilus might be benefical for balancing the intestinal flora.
 

srtiels

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I've been looking in the books I have for suggestions on what to feed pigeons, but not having much luck.

OK...if you have a scales you can monitor intake. First weigh the bird in grams. Then weigh the food and water.

Daily comsumption of food is approx 1/5 to 1/20 of the body weight.
Daily water comnsumption varies from 5-8%

You should be able to find food for doves. With a pigeon or dove diet you want a low fiber blend. Pigeons may also eat leafy greens and local young shoots of weeds (like chickweed), berries, bugs, earthworms, and snails (a source for protein) It is suggested to supplement with Brewers Yeast as a source of amino acids and other nutrients.
 

srtiels

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More thoughts on foods.

If you have a regular/general feed store you might be able to get scratch...which is a mix of cracked corn, milo and other seeds. You can offer as is or soak some for several hours to soften them, and drain and offer. If you go this route you can add a small ount of vitamin supplements, brewers yeast and calcium. If you can find scrath you can get a bag of diried beans (pkgs, that have an assortment) and do the same.

IMPORTANT. Pigeions need grit. It helps the gizzard to grind up food. You can sprinkle it on the floor for it to peck at. If you don't have grit sand will do.
 

srtiels

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Sorry for so many random postings....:(

If you have a mask it might be wise to wear one while around or handling the pigeion so that you don't breathe in the dust/dander. Pigeon feather dust can contribute to allegic alveolitis (pigeon breeder lung) I had a lung collapse from the dander from cockatiels and the dander from one pigeon is the equivelent of breathing the dust from 20 cockatiels.

Other things you can look for is down the throat. The tissue should be a normal healthy pink...free of any lesions, or white build-up in the throat. If there is any lesions or white build up it could be trichomonas, yeast, pr a Vit A defeciency.

Look at the feathers...many wild birds will have various types of ectoparasites, such as feather mites and lice. The illus. below show where to look, and these are some critter that have gotton off the local feral pigeons and doves and took up residence occassionally on my tiels.

And here is some diseases and problems pigeons can have: Viuses, bacterial, rickettsia (chlamydia, mycoplasma, funfi, ectoparasites, flukes, roundworms, insects (louse fly) tapeworms and protozoa.
 

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liltweets

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Kelsey, I've been following this but don't have a thing to add. You are doing an awesome job. Glad there are so many knowledgeable people here to help.
Thinking of you and Wonka. :hug8:
 

chompie_puppy

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Wow, thank you for all the information!

Sometimes the urine is tinged a very light green!
So the lack of urates might be kidney problems? Anything I can do for that?

Her diet is as follows:

Morning Feed

- Seed Mix (red & white millet, black oil sunflower, cracked corn, wheat, groats and milo)
- Shell Grit (coarse and fine)
- Weight Gain Mix (Chopped pecans, walnuts, almonds and extra black oil sunflower seeds)
- Veggies (hand feeding 40 - 50 pea and corn kernels at the moment)
- Leftover pea and corn kernels are left in the cage for her to eat by herself if she wants.

Afternoon Feed

- Seed Mix (red & white millet, black oil sunflower, cracked corn, wheat, groats and milo)
- Shell Grit (coarse and fine)
- Weight Gain Mix (Chopped pecans, walnuts, almonds and extra black oil sunflower seeds)
- Veggies (hand feeding 40 - 50 pea and corn kernels at the moment)
- Romaine Lettuce Leaf (hung in cage - she likes to sleep behind it more than she likes to eat it)

I also have the following food items on hand:

- Insectivore Mix (Insectivore Rearing Mix - www.wombaroo.com.au)
- Lots of different nectar and pollen mixes (about 7 different types)
- Live Mealworms
- Live Crickets
- Blueberries, strawberries and apple
- Freshly sprouted legumes
- Freshly sprouted wheat, black striped sunflower seeds and groats

All these things are used to feed my flock (finches, quail, lorikeets, plum-headed parrot and budgies).

Would Wonka benefit from any of these?

She has also been treated with Ivermectin and is due for her second treatment this week. As far as I know this will get rid of internal and external parasites?

 
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