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Urgent I don't know what to do next, I feel sooo helpless!!! :-(

Kimmie

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I posted a thread in the "Pionus" section a few months back asking for advice with episodes my 7 yr old Blue headed Pionus has been having. Bella will sneeze a bunch of times, vomit (not regurgiation), tail bobs with heavy breathing and then gets very lethargic. These episodes are not consistent and for quite a while they were stretched very far apart, time wise. I have taken her to my Avian Vet 3 times for the same issue only to get NO answers as to what's happening with her, the Vet has told me besides these episodes Bella is at a good weight and overall healthy. The Vet put her on Azithromycin a while back, it didn't help. She has ran a fecal to test for Chlamydia and it came back negative....I just had her back 2 days ago and she did a fecal, blood and throat swab to test for Asper (which is what I thought she had) and that came back negative. She put Bella on Doxycycline and she has been on that since Dec 5th 2x day.

The Vet suggested x-rays next...I am at a complete loss and extremely worried and feeling hopeless right now!!! :-( I called another Vet a while back and she mentioned after looking Bella over and running some tests to maybe do a sinus flush...what exactly is that??? I've also wondered if my African grey's dust is what might be causing this to happen as I know Pionus's have extra sensitive lungs??? FYI...This is NOT the Pionus wheeze...I am aware of the wheeze they do. Bella has not started to lay any eggs yet but then again I didn't get her DNA certificate or hatch certificate from the breeder as she was moving and said she would mail it to me, yep she never sent them UGH!!! I am also going to research metal poisoning and anything else I can find about Pionus's in the meantime.

Thanx for your help....Kim
 

rocky'smom

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ok, a couple of questions, where are you? because if you are a cold climate it maybe dry air. my birds have been sneezing too. are sneezes wet or dry? I'm going to ask some other to help also @Hankmacaw @Macawnutz,
 

Kimmie

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Yes, I am in a cold climate...Canada, ON. This happens in the summer too with Bella. My other birds sneeze once in a while and I figured that's normal . Bella sneezes like maybe 8 times in a row or more and then she stops and then might do it again. I have gas heating so it does get somewhat dry in the winter.
 

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rocky'smom

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you may have to add some humidity to the air. my Vet recommends the old fashioned steam vaporizer, but big pan of water on the back burner of the stove on the lowest simmer can help also. @JLcribber
 

JLcribber

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How often do these episodes happen and how long do they last? Do they happen in the same place/time?
 

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Do you have any air purifiers running in your home?
 

enigma731

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I would do the xrays. My 'tiel just had a very large rhinolith removed from one of his sinuses, and it definitely affected his vestibular system and caused him to vomit more easily at times (like getting carsick when that had never happened before). A nasal flush is just a procedure where they rinse the sinuses with saline, sort of like a human Neti pot. It can be good for both cleaning debris out of the nasal passage and for getting material to culture from there.
 

JLcribber

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I've also wondered if my African grey's dust is what might be causing this to happen as I know Pionus's have extra sensitive lungs??? F
This is a very possible cause. Add the dry artificially heated air which would just amplify the problem. You should have a large air purifier going forward excluding this situation.

Humidity goes down as the air temperature drops. You can get a cheap hygrometer at the hardware store for less than $10 and test what the environment is. Summer 50% good. Winter if it starts dropping below 30% (it will go to zero without boosting) it becomes hard on the respiratory system. They are tropical birds.
 

JLcribber

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Could also be an allergy. My suspicion is the dust and dry air are at least part of the problem.
 

gibsongrrrl

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that is wry strange. How long do the episodes go on for when they occur and then how far apart are they? I wonder if the sneezing is a seperate issue. Does it only coincide with the vomiting and lethargy or does it happen when she isn't experiencing those symptoms? Does her poop look any different during the episodes vs when she isn't lethargic and vomiting?
 

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Has the vet ever seen her do this? You may want to video it. Does this occur daily?
X-ray may be a good idea because there could be some kind of physiological issue within the body such as a growth or swelling that might interfere with bodily functions such as digestion and respiration.
Asked if you had an air purifier because if the issue is due to an allergy running one could help with that.

If you don't feel as if you are getting any answers from the current vet you could consult with another one.
 

Macawnutz

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You absolutely need films, that is your next step. After the film's if he feels a nasal flush is in order I would do the that too.

Sounds like it could be obstructive.

You are on the right path, if the film's show nothing they may want to do a scope but hopefully you get your answers soon.
 

mstomcat65

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This is a very possible cause. Add the dry artificially heated air which would just amplify the problem. You should have a large air purifier going forward excluding this situation.

Humidity goes down as the air temperature drops. You can get a cheap hygrometer at the hardware store for less than $10 and test what the environment is. Summer 50% good. Winter if it starts dropping below 30% (it will go to zero without boosting) it becomes hard on the respiratory system. They are tropical birds.


What is the best humidity for birds? Ours sits at around 40% right now with a humidifier set on a low setting , any higher then that moisture is in the patio doors and the freezer shut. Yep, we have cra***y windows and doors here.
 

Hankmacaw

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@Kimmie Like @Macawnutz I think that the xrays are the next step. Xrays were the way that Hank's Asper was finally pinned down. The nasal flush and a culture and sensitivity on the flush results would also be good. Also, the Asper titer should be run again - there are many times ti takes more than one test. It sounds to me like a good possibility of Asper, when you count in the heavy breathing and antibiotics doing no good.

There are two types of Asper - chronic and acute. If your bird had acute she would be much, much worse by now, but the chronic can exhibit intermittent symptoms. Chronic Asper can be difficult to diagnose.

Acute and Chronic Aspergillosis in Birds: Causes, Signs, Treatment, and Prevention

If it turns out that she does have Asper ask your vet to consider treating her with Voraconazole instead of Itraconazole or one of the other more toxic fungicides. Both Sarah and I have treated with Voraconazole with good results and no toxicity. Asper is far more treatable that it was just a few years ago, so don't panic.

Right now get the rays and the sinus flush.
 

Aubrey

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I'm very sorry this is happening to your Pi :(

My Leto bird was sneezing a bunch and had wet (clear) secretions when it was going on. He was on Batril by mouth and antibiotic drops in his nostrils for a week.

Also, because of the cold dry environment, my vet has me putting Leto in the bathroom for a steam shower. I do this daily for 10-20 min. I think this has really really helped!

Good luck!
 
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Kimmie

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How often do these episodes happen and how long do they last? Do they happen in the same place/time?
These episodes actually started over a year ago and that is when I first took her to the Vet and was prescribed the first antibiotic. They were far and few between so it was hard to actually figure out if it worked or not. In the last few months she is having more episodes, recently since I took her back to the Vet, like 1 every week and a half. The sneezing and vomitting is short like 5-10 mins worth on and off....it's the laboured breathing and tail bobbing with getting lethargic that lasts an hour or so. They usually happen in the early evening and I have seen her have one or two in the daytime.
 

Macawnutz

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Think hard, anything in your house that is happening during this? Stove use, heat on, cleaning products... anything?

Start taking notes.
 
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