I better start a thread, about Holly

[waterfaller1]

Good morning Monica. Thank you for the warm wishes. I think today will bring some answers. It may be that I am just a worrywart mom, though I do think something is not quite right with her. I had assumed all the fuss was just about wanting and being denied all the formula that she would like. Now, looking back at the last few days I fear there could be an underlying reason for her latest behavior.I have forwarded this thread to my CAV, hoping he will read the last days events.{he did read the thread I forwarded him about making a comfortable e-collar}

 

[srtiels]

Yay!...glad her crop was empty (((HUGS)))

OK...check with a regular petstore and see if they have any PROZYME. It is a powder. First you mix your formula to the normal thickness. Then you add just a little (say 1/4 tsp) of the Prozyme to the formula and stir it in. NOTE: it will thin down the formula, this is normal, so don't thicken back up.

For probiotics I just use the plain yogurt ot acidolphilus.

 

[waterfaller1]

Hmm..I doubt any bird store around here would carry such a thing.. Sadly, they are sorely lacking of things that are important to our birds' well being. Maybe all bird products might have it? Yogurt I can handle. Thanks Susanne, and Good Morning.

 

[waterfaller1]

What should be my checklist of things to ask the dr, and what he should test,or meds he should give?

 

[waterfaller1]

I do have red palm oil also, I bought it from Harrison's.

How about any of these?
Avitech Products: AviBios Lactobacillus and Probiotic

BioPlus from The Bird Care Company

Electrovites - Electrolytes: Avitech Products

Probotic from Vetafarm is a probiotic for birds

Tracemin 100 ml

 

[Anne & Gang]

I sure hope Holly will be ok..please keep us posted dear

 

[srtiels]

Just a regular store like PetsMart should have the Prozyme.

 

[srtiels]

As to the vet, you can ask for a gram stain...which he can do in minutes in the office while you are there. This will give him an idea of possible problems. If alot of yeast or bacteria are showing he can also send out a culture, for more specifics on which bacteria and what meds would be most effective. In the interim, from the gram stain he can start you on meds, if needed until cultures are back.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

Good morning Carole,

Glad to hear Holly's crop had almost completely emptied. First of all, I think giving her 80cc or " a bit more" was way too much. I suggest not doing that again. That could have been the reason or part of the reason the crop was very slow to empty.

I have no experience with feeding Macaws as babies but I do have lots of experience with similar sized birds (like your particular Macaw which you say is 428 grams). The way crops work is the same in all the species of pet parrots that I am familiar with. My advice would be to limit the feedings to about 40cc (ml) now and keep plenty of weaning foods/choices in her cage but change fairly often to keep them from spoiling. Hopefully her crop is not over-stretched, if so a crop bra will be needed. Placing a "teacher" bird right next to the cage of a bird who is slow to wean often helps, so they can watch and learn that the edible things in their cage are there for eating (not playing or pooing on) and actually taste good.

Not sure what foods you have in the cage (?) but I would suggest some colored pellets (I use Zupreem Fruit Flavored & P.B. Natural Gold), some seed if you see she cracks them open, some fresh veggies cut up into small pieces (brocolli, baby carrots, pea pods, etc.), some corn on the cob, some spray millet, some unsalted crackers, some fruit (like apple, papaya, bananna, orange, etc.) ... I would even give her some scrambled egg and try to feed her some warm mushy food like sweet potato, bean mash, etc.... Try some sphagetti also (without the sauce), brown rice and some romain lettuce. I know this is a lot of stuff but shouldn't take long to see what she is drawn to. Again, a teacher bird usually helps greatly.

I have hand fed hundreds of babies of many species over the last 20 yrs. or so and I personally have never used any additions to the formula. Not saying that any of the stuff recommended by others will do any harm or not help, just saying I never had a need for any of those things myself. Not sure what the A.V., whom you are going to see this morning (if needed), will prescribe, as some A.V.s tackle these problems in different ways. Hopefully yours is considerate when it comes to fair reasonable rates and hopefully he does not do tests that are not really necessary.

Regarding your question about what to use to clean your syringes: I never use any special soaps or chemicals etc. ... I suggest you just throw away the current syringe(s) and start using a new one. Each time you finish with it, immediately rinse out well under hot running water, shake dry and immediately place into your freezer. When ready to use again, just run warm water over it and push some thru it with the plunger. Throw away after about a couple weeks and use another new one (they are fairly cheap).

Well, continued good luck with her crop continuing to empty and good luck at the A.V. office. Be real careful if you decide to try Susanne's suggestion to crop feed, make sure the A.V. shows you exactly how to do it and you might even do it yourself in his office to make sure you got it right. If the baby has a feeding response, not difficult at all to do IME but if the baby does not have that feeding response, you need to make sure you hold the head correctly and stretch the neck correctly.

I myself prefer the Stainless Steel gavage "needles" for crop feeding but many people do use the catheters Susanne showed you. If you do use or decide to purchase a S.S. gavage feeding instrument, I suggest a #12 or even a #10. They come in curved and straight models, some people prefer one type over the other. Doesn't matter to me, just have to know how to insert and hold/stretch the neck somewhat, depending on the type you select. The vet should have these in his office. Maybe he could teach you to use it? I really don't think one can become proficient with just one lesson but doesn't hurt to learn what you can while there.

Hopefully, the A.V. should know what he needs to do to determine Holly's problem. If not, run to another one.

 

[waterfaller1]

Wow, you are awesome. Thank you so much. More coffee now, and I will come back and study what you have posted carefully before I leave.

 

[birdlvr466]

Carole looking forward to an update after your vet visit. Vetafarm and Avitech both have great products. I just purchased the Avigain, Avipow and Formula One when Tequila was sick. The Avigain and Formula One both have probiotics in them. I also have the Benebac powder probiotic, which a lot of people use. Good luck and please let us know how the visit goes.

 

[Birdlover]

Formula One is great, Ive used that before as well. Carole how does she seem this morning as far as wanting to be fed? Lots to digest as far as info on this thread, so take your time and listen to your vet most of all If I was taking a bird to the vet, i can bet that we would start with bloodwork (full cbc and bile acids) and a culture & sensitivity (crop and cloaca). Those two tests will likely point you in the right direction. If she does have an infection of some sort, medcation should clear it up fairly quick. I have also used the enzymes in handfeeding formula - it does thin it out (it should if its working) and it did help move the food through a slow crop a bit easier. You dont have to use it all the time but its great when you are having trouble.

 

[birdlover82]

Hoping all goes well at the vets.

 

[WingedVictory]

Carole, good luck at the vet today. Ask a lot of questions and write the answers down.

There is a lot of good information in the post by "Prince", review it a couple of times. In fact I did not pick up that your bird weighs 428g. The information I gave you about the 50g-60g max is too much food for that weight, our RFM weighs more. A good rule of thumb is to feed about 10% of their body weight. When you go to the vet you may want to ask some of the following questions.

ACV or GSE to help control yeast

Digestive enzymes

Probiotics

Gavage feeding, yes or no.
.
Diet

Weaning

Tests, fecal and gram, culture if warranted.

Blood profile if warranted.

If the vet prescribes medication, double check the dosage and have him show you the easy way to give them.




,

 

[Dana]

Good luck, Carole! I'm sure she'll be absolutely fine! And you have such wonderful help and advice from the folks here!

Looking forward to hearing more good news!

 

[waterfaller1]

Ok, I am back but Troy needs me to run all over town for parts, so this is the super short version. I will be back later to answer questions and elaborate.
She does have yeast, normal he said is 4-5 ppm, and he is seeing 15-20 ppm
he said he would not worry if it was like this> O..and he drew an egg shape on his blackboard
He said, what I am seeing is this> OO imagine the two egg shapes conjoined, so budding is taking place{growth}
He did both fecal and crop stain, checked her ears for signs of puffiness, veins for signs of dehydration, and cloaca for any matter..and it was clean and clear.
Overall he felt she looked good.
He also told me I was feeding way too much at each feeding. He said also as you have said Gary that it should be 10% of the body weight at each feeding. BUT>>>my scale is way off! I need a better one, he recommended one like his, a Sterling. She is 442 gms!
I have two meds to give orally, one is metoclopromide to increase the crop to empty. The other is Fluconazole, for the yeast.
I have to go change, I am covered in poop! And do that running for Troy. I will be back in a few hours.
Thanks everyone!!!

 

[Birdlover]

Thanks for the update Carole! Glad you were able to get her checked out. Sounds like you are on the right track and with the meds she should improve soon

 

[J*M*L]

Just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of Holly!

 

[birdlover82]

Thanks for the update.

 

[birdlvr466]

Glad you were able to see your vet. Breathe, have a glass of wine..you are doing great!