Hornbeam Aviary

[skwirt]

Actually, I called Fish and Wildlife. First the guy told me I don't need a permit. I said it's a change from last year please check. He checked and I do. I need this http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-37.pdf But I won't be ready until at least next year so hopefully if he is wrong the process will be ironed out by then.

I specifically told him this would be a pet.

 

[jmfleish]

Yeah, US Fish and Wildlife typically do not know what they are talking about. Katy will walk you through the process and will know it because she could get in trouble for selling you a bird on the ESL if you don't have the proper paperwork. Trust me, they won't give you a permit if you are not a breeder. It's specifically given out only to breeders and from what I understand, they come and physically look at your set up before they even give you the permit to make sure that you're up to the standard that they require.

 

[Bokkapooh]

What if you "gifted" her the amount the C2 costs and she can "gift" the bird to you?

 

[Sadieladie1994]

I have had Queen of Bavaria conures so became very familiar with this regulation. One person who was helpful was Nancy Speed who breeds this species. She had a written report of step by step process. Living in Texas finds breeders available for most species and pet birds can be obtained BECAUSE the regulation is federal. Federal does not regulate interstate movement which is state but it does regulate what occurs across state lines. My concern at the time was if I moved across state lines or traveled could I bring my birds with me or would they be confiscated. The answer was no but you best keep all records or leg bands even if the bands were removed so you can prove when and where you obtained your bird. One friend did get the permit but it was not simple. On inspection the regulators did not like how the concrete was around a stump which was in the enclosure for enrichment for the birds. It really depends on the training the regulator has and their training and we often know more than they do and their lack of knoledge does not make it good for our birds and us.

 

[jmfleish]

What if you "gifted" her the amount the C2 costs and she can "gift" the bird to you?

That will not fly...that is one of the first things the government will catch on to. I think it's Nancy Speed who has that kind of info on her web site. I thought it was Mary Ellen Lepage but I just looked at her web site and she doesn't sell any birds that are on the ESL. Yep, it was Nancy but she's redoing her web site....PPatch Parrots Home

 

[skwirt]

Sadie I will do a google search for that breeder and see if I can pull up any info. Thanks.

 

[skwirt]

Sadie, your conure won't be an issue if you move. Especially if you lived in Texas and got it from Texas while living there. Honestly, people rehome birds all the time you could say Craigslist.

 

[jmfleish]

Well Fish and Wildlife is the agency that oversees all this so they should know. Honestly, I don't think anyone is ever going to question where the bird is from BUT I want to make sure it's done the right way because it's potentially more of an issue for the aviary than me. Hardly anyone knows this law and since you can buy one from a pet store in this state (they are getting them this year, I asked) I don't think anyone will be suspect of someone who has a Citron. They are not illegal to own (like quakers and ring necks are in my state) so it shouldn't be an issue. Katy assured me that there is a way and we will figure it out.

If it comes down to it, I will ask friends and somebody HAS to know somebody in Ohio. Since I plan on driving and picking the bird up nobody would ever know the state lines were crossed and even if I was pulled over I don't think cops are looking for pet parrots. Most wouldn't know the difference between a citron and any other too nor would they really care. If I had a lion cub...that might be different.

Sadie I will do a google search for that breeder and see if I can pull up any info. Thanks.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, it's more of an issue for Katy than it is for you but the law is not new at all, the Citron on the list regarding the law is new! Breeders who deal in these birds such as Nancy Speed (P Patch Aviary) know their stuff and if you go to her web site, you will notice all the birds that need the permit are listed as needing the permit, although she hasn't updated the Blue Throated Macaw yet but her site seems to be in the middle of an update. I've seen Nancy say on other forums that she has been asked to break this law in one form or another over the years and she won't do it because she could potentially get in a great deal of trouble if she is caught. She's been doing this for years now though and knows the ins and outs. Katy has never been through this but I'm sure she will be careful about how she handles the situation. I think your plan of having someone in Ohio purchase the bird for you and having that person gift you the bird is the best way around the law. Very legal in my eyes.

 

[skwirt]

This whole law is such a crock. It's not protecting the animals from extinction. I just don't even understand how this is supposed to help? I know it isn't new just new to Citrons and LS2's.

 

[skwirt]

About gifting the breeder and the breeder gifting you....

Yeah that is crazy risky and shouldn't be attempted...but I think you were joking.

 

[Bokkapooh]

About gifting the breeder and the breeder gifting you....

Yeah that is crazy risky and shouldn't be attempted...but I think you were joking.

Only half joking. It sound risky as I wrote it.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

Sadie, your conure won't be an issue if you move. Especially if you lived in Texas and got it from Texas while living there. Honestly, people rehome birds all the time you could say Craigslist.

This was a number of years ago. Not many people were up on the law and that is when I researched it. I do know that one can purchase in their state and if they happen to move the bird can go with you. Questions came up about a bird going to rescue...l.and rescues charge, would that have to be in state. The other question that came up is if something happened to me would it be legal for that bird to go to someone in another state. The answer is...the law is about commerce which is buying and selling. If that should not occur then it would be ok. It is a bit tricky if someone buys it for you then sends that bird to you in another state. Divorce can also be an issue with having to sell "property". When I went through my divorce I go a dog but my sister purchased the dog and it was in her name. That dog could not be considered property in the divorce.

These laws are not simple and not what one thinks they are. There is an animal law board and it would not be a bad idea to join one and see just how screwed up some stuff is. I was fortunate in that early on the board I was on had an attorney that specialized in animals and avians. I learned a LOT (I was one of those nerds that read every and anything related to dogs and birds...lots of seminars also)

 

[aooratrix]

This whole law is such a crock. It's not protecting the animals from extinction. I just don't even understand how this is supposed to help? I know it isn't new just new to Citrons and LS2's.

Yes, but we're stuck with it unless it's revised at some point. Since it's in its nascent stages, I don't see that happening. Some breeders are already reducing breeding pairs of affected species and/or not putting up nest boxes.

 

[skwirt]

Yes, i heard that, too.

 

[BareEyedMama]

I actually adopted a Bare Eyed Cockatoo that one of my family friends rescued. I was told the cockatoo came from Hornbeam Aviary and I’d like to reach out to them but i can’t find any contact info, or a website. Can anyone direct me?

 

[expressmailtome]

I actually adopted a Bare Eyed Cockatoo that one of my family friends rescued. I was told the cockatoo came from Hornbeam Aviary and I’d like to reach out to them but i can’t find any contact info, or a website. Can anyone direct me?

The owner has recently retired and closed the aviary.

 

[Distaff]

These sorts of laws are also a problem for reptile keepers. USArk is a not profit lobbying group. I don't know if they work at all with birds, but the "exotics" community tends to keep a wide array. If you contact them about it, they might be able to steer you in a useful direction, or even suggest an atty. who can help with the legal issues. For a pricey bird (I don't know what these sell for, but I've seen prices for Hyacinths over $10,000) $500 or a $1,000 in legal advice might be worth it.

 

[lexalayne]

Katy Hornbeam’s aviaries and breeder birds are like a slice of heaven. I’ve been there a few times and just want to stay forever. She has a good friend of hers facilitate sales. She’s fully licensed and has been doing it for Katybsnd others for a long time, leaving them to concentrate on their breeding and baby raising. I’ll pm u her info