Honeymoon over

[mandymmr]

And happened overnight! She's loud all the time, and attacking!

 

[theocnoob]

What species? How old?

 

[mandymmr]

What species? How old?

Hahn's Macaw, unknown age

 

[JLcribber]

When Elle died it was very sad. When that happens all we can think about is all the good stuff along the way and we forget about the battle/journey it took to get to that point. So we try to "replace" what we had which doesn't work. You're at the beginning of the new battle/journey and have a long hard road ahead. It may never be the same. Personally I don't think I would have done it. Slow and steady my dear.

 

[mandymmr]

I wasn't expecting the same. J. Cribber!
Anyways:
Saga is running & lunging now. Last week she wanted held now hates me. I've been wracking my mind trying to figure out what I did. I dI'd pull away a few times she nailed me. I've never been a good one at just holding still while they grind away at my flesh.
She also does this shaky motion with her wings while sqauking/being loud. I've learned many of her call & meanings. I've also learned some body language meanings bUT the fluttering/shoulder/wing shaky thing.
She's also plucked quite a bit more but I was expecting that with a new home and such. She is loving the red palm oil though

 

[JLcribber]

She also does this shaky motion with her wings while sqauking/being loud. I've learned many of her call & meanings. I've also learned some body language meanings bUT the fluttering/shoulder/wing shak

Typically that is the behaviour of a bird that cannot fly, and wants to fly. You could boil it down to anxiety. And of course stress

 

[mandymmr]

She wants to syep up/be held. So I let her step up, after she's on she nails me. I'm prepared for these and suck up the pain while she bites & twists to and fro. It's as if she's on & gets scared? I've not given her fear hand holding, past house?

 

[iamwhoiam]

Sorry about the behavior issues with your bird. Barbara Heidenreich has a good website regarding issues including biting:
Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books
She also has a blog.
Barbara's Force Free Animal Training Talk: Search results for biting
Do you know anything about her past history?

 

[mandymmr]

Do you know anything about her past history?

Not really, and I don't believe the lady was honest I got her from.

 

[JLcribber]

She wants to syep up/be held. So I let her step up, after she's on she nails me. I'm prepared for these and suck up the pain while she bites & twists to and fro. It's as if she's on & gets scared? I've not given her fear hand holding, past house?

Stop letting her on your flesh. You are providing the opportunity to bite. Use a stick or something else as a tool to move her around and handle her for the time being.

 

[Jenphilly]

Not really, and I don't believe the lady was honest I got her from.

ugh... we have those experiences all the time, people are seldom completely honest when surrendering parrots.

But, you might want to try starting over with her. Will she take treats from your hand? I think starting with the foundation of positive interactions would be a good start, earning her trust and letting her settle. Being rehomed can be pretty traumatic and some birds need their own time to adjust to the loss of the family.

What type of interactions can you engage her in without her getting aggressive to biting?

 

[JLcribber]

If you want sound advice Mandy you're going to have to tell us more. As in how you've got her set up. What kind of routine you have her on. When and what's happening during these events. Etc.

 

[mandymmr]

If you want sound advice Mandy you're going to have to tell us more. As in how you've got her set up. What kind of routine you have her on. When and what's happening during these events. Etc.

I have my arm leaning on her cage one time and she just stepped on up and then hard bite with twists, let's go & does it again.
I think (saying that with hope) she does it cause she's afraid. A few times she's slipped or foot misplaced. I offer my hand or arm and she steps up and then bites/TWISTS the hell out of me. As she can't take her anger & fear out of what scared her, I'm there so she does it. Did I mention the TWISHING action she adds to the bites? BOTH ways.

 

[mandymmr]

[QUOTE="Jenphilly, post: 2641447, member: Will she take treats from your hand?
[/QUOTE]

Yes very well and we "share" food this way all the time

[QUOTE="Jenphilly, post: 2641447, member:
What type of interactions can you engage her in without her getting aggressive to biting? [/QUOTE]
Not many. Mind you the aggression just started saturday. Offering my food & hers goes over very well 95% of the time. Only 3 toys out of her tons am I allowed to touch (odd). I was thinking cage aggressive, but it just started over night.

 

[mandymmr]

I'm more confused by people...some say take the bites & don't react. Others say no avoid them.
Example what I do:
We were playing (with my 3 toys) her on the cage & sharing my food. We were doing great, I did nothing different than I was doing & she nailed me. I said nothing, got up & walked away.
Now, what did I do wrong?

 

[theocnoob]

When George bites he gets put on the floor for 30 seconds. He hates it down there. He can fly but it's like he forgets that sometimes so he'll sit there and look at me pitifully until I pick him back up. I have no other pets and he is supervised the entire time. Don't put your bird on the floor if you have dogs/cats/other birds nearby that are not friendly with that bird.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yeah, Hank (GW in my avatar) would either twist or grind when he bit - and he meant to amputate a appendage.

IMO - you should try very hard to avoid a bite. Every successful bite is self perpetuating. You will need to keep your attention strictly on your bird and learn every bit of body language she uses. Never let her think that a bite is ok - they aren't. Give her the stink eye and turn your back on her - even tell her firmly "no bite". Remember avoid ever bite, she can't be allowed to be successful.

Like @Jenphilly said you will most likely need to start over at square #1. Target training would very likely be a good method to use with her. One of @JLcribber "T" sticks to pick her up and carry her from place to place will be a must for awhile. Bribery works wonders and save treats for when she is a good girl and performs the behavior you want (not for biting).

Make your interactions with her short and quit your interaction on a positive note.

Her biting you is not because she hates you. I would say that it is a learned behavior from a prior home.

 

[JLcribber]

I'm more confused by people...some say take the bites & don't react. Others say no avoid them.

Well this is easy. Would prefer to get bit or not to get bit. She can't bite you unless you deliberately offer your arm/flesh and put it right in target range. Clamping down on a stick doesn't hurt one bit and there's no need to react so you've avoided the issue all together. It becomes a non issue pretty quickly.

Every parrot on the planet "tests" whatever it is about to step on with its beak. In your case there is not enough security/trust/familiarity with the whole thing "yet" and if you make any wrong "perceived" move the first thing that happens is the beak clamps down.

 

[Jenphilly]

I'm more confused by people...some say take the bites & don't react. Others say no avoid them.
Example what I do:
We were playing (with my 3 toys) her on the cage & sharing my food. We were doing great, I did nothing different than I was doing & she nailed me. I said nothing, got up & walked away.
Now, what did I do wrong?

First apologies for typos, on my phone..

On both personal and rescue side, we don't advise taking a bite and ignoring it. Others may argue, but you are dealing with an intelligent, thinking and learning creature... Others say a parrot does not understand wrong or bad, I personally laugh at that logic because I have feathered brats in my home that know when they are doing something wrong... Max literally waddles away laughing then he gives me the I love you momma. When he's getting into something he shouldn't (like moving all his toys to try and reach the woodwork), I can call his name, he stops and picks up a toy to play with it... butthead knows wrong...

With that said, not redirecting bad behavior is the same as rewarding good behavior. Let any parrot bite and nothing happens, they literally will walk all over you, especially a macaw- any size!

But I think you have a catch 22... that type of bite and grind is telling you to go away. I am guessing in the previous home, a bite was rewarded with being left alone. This poor bird may not know happy interaction. Any bird in a new environment is usually a little reserved, true to say honeymoon is over.

Stick training is away... target training as mentioned is often very positive. Sharing your food is excellent, it's a flock bonding behaviour, definitely keep that interaction going.

Do you have a playstand away from the cage? Extremely helpful in working with a situation like this. And there is no shame in putting a light towel over your hand so no flesh is seen and asking for step up, reward with a favorite treat and moving the parrot to a playstand to work on target training, sharing food or play interaction.

Is there anyone who can handle this new baby? Are the bites with everyone?

 

[mandymmr]

First apologies for typos, on my phone..

On both personal and rescue side, we don't advise taking a bite and ignoring it. Others may argue, but you are dealing with an intelligent, thinking and learning creature... Others say a parrot does not understand wrong or bad, I personally laugh at that logic because I have feathered brats in my home that know when they are doing something wrong... Max literally waddles away laughing then he gives me the I love you momma. When he's getting into something he shouldn't (like moving all his toys to try and reach the woodwork), I can call his name, he stops and picks up a toy to play with it... butthead knows wrong...

With that said, not redirecting bad behavior is the same as rewarding good behavior. Let any parrot bite and nothing happens, they literally will walk all over you, especially a macaw- any size!

But I think you have a catch 22... that type of bite and grind is telling you to go away. I am guessing in the previous home, a bite was rewarded with being left alone. This poor bird may not know happy interaction. Any bird in a new environment is usually a little reserved, true to say honeymoon is over.

Stick training is away... target training as mentioned is often very positive. Sharing your food is excellent, it's a flock bonding behaviour, definitely keep that interaction going.

Do you have a playstand away from the cage? Extremely helpful in working with a situation like this. And there is no shame in putting a light towel over your hand so no flesh is seen and asking for step up, reward with a favorite treat and moving the parrot to a playstand to work on target training, sharing food or play interaction.

Is there anyone who can handle this new baby? Are the bites with everyone?

I am only the brave yet stupid with her. So no one else is getting bitten. By everyone is getting "charged at". I'm not so much being charged at as the rest.
God I haven't stick trained in forever. I'm gonna go to that and go from there. I'm still trying to find "THE/THAT" treat she goes crazy for. Can you all tell me your fids? I do have a plays and that I can use & will do that. It gas been sitting by her cage, is that idea/method ruined now?