Hi I'm new here and have a sick Pionus

[abbydp]

Hi I am new here and just looking for some ideas, support, suggestions, etc. I have a white cap pionus who is almost 9 years old. He has recently been diagnosed with a bacterial infection, possible liver issues, and the beginnings of a vitamin A deficiency. I have had him seen by a qualified avian vet. Currently I am giving him antibiotic injections twice a day (oh so very fun for both of us) and a supplement to help his liver. This all started by him fluffing his feathers more, sleeping more, general grumpiness, and weight loss. He has been on the antibiotics a week now. He spent the first four days in the vet's care so I know the meds were started perfectly. He was not eating well, there though, and continued to lose weight. He has since started to look a little better - his feathers and general colorinng is better and brighter. I will be able to weigh him tomorrow and see if he is gaining any. His overall demeanor has not improved at all though. He eats very well, but right now only eats and sleeps most of the time. he is awake other times, but those are his two priorities right now. I am new to this, and kind of fell into bird ownership, so I fully admit I do not have a clue what I am doing. I have worked for a vet so I am comfortable with the injections and that they are being done correctly. Does anyone have any ideas or experiences that might help? Thanks for reading and any ideas!

 

[Danita]

HI Tara,
Welcome to the Avenue. I am sorry to read your little one is ill. Sometimes the medications make them feel sick and decrease the appetite. Make sure you keep him warm.

Others will join the thread soon to offer support and advise.

It is so scary when they get sick.

 

[suncoast]

Welcome,

I would set up his cage as a hospital cage. Perches and food low down so he doesn't have to expend the energy to climb up to eat and perch. I would tent 3 sides and the top and put a heating pad set on low under half his cage so he doesn't use energy trying to stay warm. If he will take it, I would try and hand feed him some warm liquidy foods like runny mashed or sweet potatos, cream of wheat, oatmeal, thinned with soy or almond milk or even handfeeding formula. What is his name?

Ginger

 

[abbydp]

Thanks guys! His name is Peep. The vet never mentioned changing anything so he has had everything the same, and has a huge cage. I will see what I can do to change it up though. He is eating very well, maybe even better since we started the meds. He was only not eating well at the hospital and I believe the vet may have even taken him home over the weekend. I can try the warm mushes but he is incredibly picky, and always has been. Of the foods he likes he is devouring them. I am hoping that means he will have gained some. His last weigh in at the vet's, he weighed 164. He is also making a new noise. There is a grumpy one and one that doesn't sound so grumpy, almost like a baby bird begging. He still makes his usual begging noise but these are new since this started, some times and some days more than others. I have 13 more injections - those are horrible!!!

 

[Danita]

He is also making a new noise. There is a grumpy one and one that doesn't sound so grumpy, almost like a baby bird begging. He still makes his usual begging noise but these are new since this started, some times and some days more than others. I have 13 more injections - those are horrible!!!

Maybe he is wanting some comfort feedings?

I would be a mess injecting my birds twice a day

 

[abbydp]

We have never done any formula or hand feeding before so that will be a new one. I can try it. What would I give him? He was already almost 2 when I got him. Wow I just looked at his paperwork - he was 187 grams when I took him home and was 164 when he left the vet's Tuesday night. Ok I fully admit and am realizing the hard way I am a bad bird owner , I knew nothing!!! I have just done things the same, same foods, etc and things have been fine up until now. Poor little guy Hopefully tomorrow we will see some improvement. I can take him back to the vet for what she called "force feeding" but he has had so much trauma and going down there, almost an hour's ride to the actual avian vet, really stresses him out a lot. A local vet has a scale though and will let me just bring him in to weigh him.

And yes I am a mess too! I have no problem injecting a 1400 horse, a tiny bird is about to send me over the edge. Tonight went well. This morning was a mess though - he knew what was coming so there was screaming, biting, and panicking (me). The sound he makes breaks my heart. It's a tiny needle, but it's such a tiny body.

 

[allison]

I would get him full spectrum lighting to help with the vitamin deficiency. Parrots need vitamin D from sunlight or special avian UV bulbs in order to absorb vitamin A.
Pionus are prone to problems with their kidneys and livers. They need a diet low in protein. I feed my pionus mostly veggies and just 2 tablespoons of some dehydrated veggie/fruit, pellet, and small seed mix at night.
Since he's underweight, you can feed him heartier veggies like cooked sweet potato, squash, etc. Avoid nuts which are high in protein and fat. You can also feed cooked grains like oatmeal. You can also get applesauce, baby food, and some hand feeding formula and mix it together. Just not too much formula because it is high in protein.
You will want to feed a low fat and protein diet because fat is hard on the liver and protein is hard on the kidneys.

 

[Anne & Gang]

very sorry this is happening...it does sound like he wants some comfort hand feedings...even try from a spoon....many many healing energies on the way and hugs for yo u

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

Hi I am new here and just looking for some ideas, support, suggestions, etc. I have a white cap pionus who is almost 9 years old. He has recently been diagnosed with a bacterial infection, possible liver issues, and the beginnings of a vitamin A deficiency. I have had him seen by a qualified avian vet. Currently I am giving him antibiotic injections twice a day (oh so very fun for both of us) and a supplement to help his liver. This all started by him fluffing his feathers more, sleeping more, general grumpiness, and weight loss. He has been on the antibiotics a week now. He spent the first four days in the vet's care so I know the meds were started perfectly. He was not eating well, there though, and continued to lose weight. He has since started to look a little better - his feathers and general colorinng is better and brighter. I will be able to weigh him tomorrow and see if he is gaining any. His overall demeanor has not improved at all though. He eats very well, but right now only eats and sleeps most of the time. he is awake other times, but those are his two priorities right now. I am new to this, and kind of fell into bird ownership, so I fully admit I do not have a clue what I am doing. I have worked for a vet so I am comfortable with the injections and that they are being done correctly. Does anyone have any ideas or experiences that might help? Thanks for reading and any ideas!

Where might you be located if you do not mind saying? Can you post the names of the meds and the doses.

 

[Saemma]

Eating foods rich in vitamin A is essential.

Examples are sweet potato, butternut squash and carrots.

 

[abbydp]

I am located in SE Virginia. He is getting .06 mils of OptOmega squirted in his mouth twice a day and .12 mils of Pipracillin + Tazobactam injected twice a day. He has been seen by Dr. Macqueen at Midway. I am on my way out in a few to get him weighed, get him a heat source and possibly a light. He seems more needy this am so I will also start hand feeding him this afternoon. We will try some sweet potaotes. He likes carrots and eats baby carrots on his own. He is still plenty bright, and ate very well, he is just complaining still.

Thanks for all the help!! Saemma - he looks just like yours - he has one green feather still in his white.

 

[Danita]

Make sure you buy a ceramic bulb heat lamp.
You can also just have a heating pad under one area for him. The heat lamps and bulbs can be quite pricey.
Some stores will try and sell you lights for lizards.

 

[zoomama]

Sending hugs and prayers for Peep. I can't offer you any medical advice, but did want to say welcome, and offer you good wishes from another pi owner (my Risa is a BHP.) Please keep us posted as to how Peep is doing.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

"I am located in SE Virginia. He is getting .06 mils of OptOmega squirted in his mouth twice a day and .12 mils of Pipracillin + Tazobactam injected twice a day. He has been seen by Dr. Macqueen at Midway. I am on my way out in a few to get him weighed, get him a heat source and possibly a light. He seems more needy this am so I will also start hand feeding him this afternoon. We will try some sweet potaotes. He likes carrots and eats baby carrots on his own. He is still plenty bright, and ate very well, he is just complaining still……"

Thanks for the info. … Will watch for the current weight of your lil one.

What specifically is OptOmega?

Piperacillin is generally used to treat systemic gram-negative bacterial infections. According to my notes here, a major disadvantage of using Penicillins is the frequency of administration needed to maintain effective concentrations. Usually, Piperacillin (according to medical book formularies) is supposed to be given 3 - 4 times a day, sometimes even more often. Curious as to why your vet only prescribed a dose to be given 2x a day (if you get a chance to ask him)?

For those of you who are curious (like I always am), Tazobactam is a compound that inhibits the action of bacterial beta-lactamases. It is added to the extended spectrum beta-lactam antibiotic piperacillin to produce Tazocin or Zosyn or Piprataz (manufactured by Gepach International). It broadens the spectrum of piperacillin by making it effective against organisms that express beta-lactamase and would normally degrade piperacillin.

So now you may ask, what is a beta-lactamase. Here is your answer:

Beta-lactamases are enzymes (EC 3.5.2.6) produced by some bacteria and are responsible for their resistance to beta-lactam antibiotics like penicillins, cephamycins, and carbapenems (ertapenem). (Cephalosporins are relatively resistant to beta-lactamase.) These antibiotics have a common element in their molecular structure: a four-atom ring known as a beta-lactam. The lactamase enzyme breaks that ring open, deactivating the molecule's antibacterial properties.

Beta-lactam antibiotics are typically used to treat a broad spectrum of Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria. Beta-lactamases produced by Gram-negative organisms are usually secreted.

 

[Welshanne]

You poor thing going through all of this must be stressful to say the least. I have been there with one of my Greys being ill and know the stress levels can go through the roof, but you will cope. Surprising where you get the strength from to give the treatment when you know it is doing the trick and they need you.
With our illness Leroy was not able to convert the foodstuffs into the vitamins that she needed without the help of a broad spectrum light, to try and simulate the natural enviroment. It worked for her thankfully and she is now fine. Do hope it all goes well and hope you will keep us posted as we are all routing for you. God bless.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

Ann makes a good point there. I also agree that you should be using some good quality Full Spectrum lighting properly placed above your bird's indoor cage, in addition to that ceramic heat-emitter that Dotty earlier mentioned (heat emitter should be always on btw, attached safely to the outside of cage next to your bird's favorite perching spot).

I always recommend a white linear fluorescent fixture, with downward reflector (with electronic ballast, not magnetic ballast) which burns 2 Phillips F32T8TL950 tubes which have specifications of 98 CRI rating and 5500 Kelvin Temp. - or similar linear tubes made by other companies. Some people feel this is not necessary but I myself have seen first-hand the positive effects of using same. Doesn't cost that much to try it out and make your own judgement.

 

[allison]

I would use a light designed specifically for birds. I actually was able to hear a lecture all about the benefits of UV light and birds at the TASC bird fair this year. The avian vet actually said she does not recommend florescent bulbs because they flicker and the birds can see it. She said it was like a strobe light for them.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

Allison,

What causes the annoying flicker that you mentioned is using a magnetic ballast in the fluorescent fixture, not an electronic ballast like I suggested earlier to use.

So what is the manufacturer's name and model number of this light you are talking about that you say is "specifically" designed for birds? Do you use it? If not, why not? If you don't have that info. handy, can you get it for us.

Who is this avian vet that you mentioned? Does she have birds and if she does, I assume she uses good quality F.S. Lighting for them. Can you contact her for her advice on specifically which lights to use and where does she get them from. Would be interesting to hear what she says if she has first hand knowledge, otherwise I would hope she can provide the links to where she gets her info. from.

Thanks.

 

[allison]

I use feather brite bulbs.
Full spectrum lighting for birds by FeatherBrite
I have 2 of these in my bird room. One above H&B and one hanging near Toady's cage.
http://featherbrite.com/featherbrite-15w-full-spectrum-bu15.html
The vet was Karen Becker. She did a whole lecture about the benefits of UV lighting at the TASC bird fair in Illinois this year. She does have birds. She is an avian vet and says she replaced all her Florecent lights in her clinic with Full Spectrum lights.
NATURAL PET ANIMAL HOSPITAL
You can contact her if you have any questions about the other bulbs, she recomended the feather brite so that is what I am using.

 

[*K*J*B*]

Welcome to the Avenue. Sorry your fid is ill. I hope he is feeling better soon.