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Help with bronze wing/Pionus body language and vocals?

Discussion in 'Pionus Pointe' started by baserock love, 6/13/17.

  1. baserock love

    baserock love Strolling the yard

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    Hi, if you saw my other thread you would know I brought home a 2 year old bronze wing pionus about 5 days ago named Gamura. At first things seemed great. After being deathly quiet and spooked for about 4 hours in the cage she was clearly begging to be let out, flew right to me, hung out on my shoulder, stepped up eagerly, wouldn't take treats but was very vocal. I figured maybe since she liked me when I met her before bringing her home that she still liked me. Things were great for the first day and a half.

    Midday the next day she was on my shoulder and clearly wanted back in her cage, i put her in. Nothing out of the ordinary happened but from that moment forward she decided she doesnt' trust me and is clearly very nervous around me. Won't step up in her cage at all (when i realized this i backed off and pretty much have since then. I'm letting her go at her own pace), wouldn't come out for a whole day. Did start eagerly but cautiously taking treats from hand though. But since then she's slowly started coming out of the cage and getting more and more vocal, only wanting to step up when she's on top of her cage as she can't get down and knows I'll help her down. Today something really seems to have gotten to her, she's hardly made a sound all day and hasn't come out of her cage once even though she spent most of the day on top of her cage or on the door yesterday (that's the farthest she ventures out. I just leave the door open).

    What I'm mostly wondering about is just some things she's doing as she seems at times like she's trying to communicate in some way. I honestly can't find much information on Bronze wing and pionus in general body language and mannerisms as they're just not common birds compared to amazons and such.

    1. The soft chitter sounds she make are happy noises I assume as I see vids of them making them while being pet or clearly contended. She would make them at almost a frantic pitch when I was out of the room or not within eyeshot, just louder and more frantic chitters, almost excited. She's often on one foot and fluffed up in her cage which I assume is relaxed body language like with amazons. Does this change in frequency/urgency of vocalizations mean something?

    2. She will on occasion make low pitched raspy almost like gibberish words. It sounds like she's trying to emulate speech (I'm 90% positive she's saying I love you at times but only when she does this specific vocalization.) but they're much lower pitched then the chittering vocalizations she's usually making. I've heard her make them when she was on my shoulder when she first came home, and once or twice when she was running from my hand when i first realized she no longer was willing to step up and was now frightened of me. I ASSUME these are fear response vocalizations?

    3. She does this the same way every time and i've heard about Bronze Wings doing something similar. She so far hasn't touched a single toy, but will at random times when she was in a chattery mood, climb to the top of her cage, hang like a vampire bat, point her head downwards, look right at me and start chattering insanely frantically sorta similar to the vocalizations in 1, but even MORE excited. She Only does this when i'm around, and only does it for about 10 seconds. She will be on her perch, see me walk near the cage, climb up to the top of the cage, hang and talk excitedly and stare right at me, then go right back to her safe space perch in the back of the cage. I have no idea if this is play or what?

    If any experienced bronze wing owners can shed light on these or other common body languages or behaviors it would be an immense help.
     
  2. expressmailtome

    expressmailtome Ripping up the road Administrator Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    Bump.
     
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  3. baserock love

    baserock love Strolling the yard

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    Yeah. Like i'm doing what you're supposed to do, giving her her space, letting her go at her own pace. I think i misinterpreted her being more afraid of her cage than me when she first got here as her being not at all afraid of me and I possibly set her back in getting comfortable here. I think me being the most familiar thing in the house when she got here, she made me her safe space from the cage. Now that she's acclimated to the cage, her cage is her safe space from ME.

    Up till yesterday she was getting more and more vocal and more and more bold about venturing outside her cage, and I want to make sure when i move things to the next level which will be step up training that I know it's the right time for her.
     
  4. javi

    javi Sprinting down the street Avenue Veteran

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    So far it all sounds normal. My older pionus was very shy when he first came home. He is a nervous bird even now, but it did take a few days for him to start doing things.
     
  5. baserock love

    baserock love Strolling the yard

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    I'm more trying to figure out what does a scared BWP sound like vs what does a happy BWP sound like. He makes a few distinctive vocalizations but I have no idea what's going through his head and what he's trying to communicate to me at times because he clearly is trying to communicate....something to me. Hell i can't tell if his incredibly cute vampire batting on the roof of the cage is some sort of warning to me or just her playing briefly.
     
  6. Eloy

    Eloy Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Spotlight Award Shutterbugs' Best

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    Record it and post here. And you don't need a BWP owner to tell that, all Pionus makes familiar noises.
     
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  7. baserock love

    baserock love Strolling the yard

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    are you sure? I think I've watched virtually every pionus video on youtube and i havent' heard anything but BWP's make the noises she does and i haven't found a single vid of them making the low pitch vocalizations and i've only seen any vids of BWP's that sound anything like what Gamura does.

    But i've solved that mystery. She decided around 9 pm yesterday that she wants to murder me. She was totally normal when i shut her cage to run to the store, i came back and she immediately attacked me and has basically been trying to get at me ever since off and on. While she was in full puffed, wings up, head down bloodthirsty pionus mode which i had never seen, she was doing those low vocalizations which makes me now know that they are indeed fear sounds as I'm pretty sure what's going on right now is that she is utterly terrified of me to the point where she thinks i need to be fended off at all costs.

    When I first got her home and she was just all over me, stepping up hanging out on my shoulder, she was making these same low pitch vocalizations, one of which is "i love you" in poorly mimicked english/pionese. Talk about just begging me to misinterpret! She unfortunately just stops whatever she's doing if i pull out a camera but I will post vids as I get them of things i'm not clear about.

    That said, i got my first bite! She clearly didn't give it her all and it shocked me more htan anything as she's been the most docile bird ever up till yesterday. I'm going to switch gears and limit my interactions with her to just doling out treats and giving her her space, trust building. I just REALLY hope i didn't set myself back too far by being too hands on when she first got here.
     
    Last edited: 6/17/17
  8. javi

    javi Sprinting down the street Avenue Veteran

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    9 is past my birds' bed times. I put them to bed at 8 and do not bother them until the morning.
     
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  9. Dartman

    Dartman Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award

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    They have triggers that make them go from normal happy bird to flying homicidal kamikaze bird in a heartbeat, you may have accidentally found one just now. Lurch would get set off by wearing the wrong hat, coat, or hoody. My sister got a totally new haircut that was much shorter, and Lurch thought a yedi had come into the house and he was determined to either kill it or drive it away. I think she put on a hat he knew was part of her and he became his normal loving but grumpy self with her again. When they get triggered yes they can be terrified so maybe see if something you have on has got her upset or did something change enough to set her off.
    Sometimes just like us they are just having a bad day or hormones have kicked in.
     
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  10. baserock love

    baserock love Strolling the yard

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    I got her on a 10 to 10 schedule. Is probably different than her previous place. I'd wager she gets a lot more quiet time, she was in a teenagers bedroom in a mobile home with an autistic other child, 2 dogs, and 2 adults.

    It's only been 8 days. I'm sure she's still pretty stressed out and probably a little heart and homesick from losing the only family she's known and and her "dad". Throw in my stupid a** egging her on into stepping up probably quite a bit earlier than i should have. I thought she was ready, boy was I wrong.

    It also occured to me, she probably has very little good to associate with me so far. She's in her comfy familiar place, I show up, she gets crammed into a small carrier, immediately is put in a car on a 3 hour drive that she gets carsick in and vomits the WHOLE way and is clearly stressed out, the whole time that carrier is pointed right at me and I'm the only thing she can see, then she's in this big unfamiliar place with new smells and new sounds and probably missing everything she knew. Hell her safe space where she goes to hide is just one perch of many that just happens to be one from her old cage.

    I think this is more a fear thing than a pure aggression thing. She is VERY VERY cautious suddenly to take treats from my finger tips. Before it was totally natural to give her treats, now she's so cautious she tries to grab it and run so fast she accidentally drops it half the time. I used to be able to get her to chase them a bit around the cage, now she will barely move 5 inches to grab one through the bars, if she goes for it at all.

    I'm also fairly confident that the vampire batting thing she does is more of a warning than a play thing. This is why i made this thread. I was misinterpreting things I have never seen in other parrots till now.

    Though now that you mention it....i've been wearing white shirts and shorts since i got her....i think i wore a black shirt and blue jeans when this all started and was wearing it today. Gonna do a little experiment tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: 6/17/17
  11. tka

    tka Meeting neighbors

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    Just take it slow and at her pace. Pionus parrots are fairly cautious birds - they like to observe and watch things while they make up their minds about whether something is okay or not. I didn't push Leia at all - it took three weeks for me to touch her, simply because I wanted to give her space and not push her into anything she was uncomfortable with. In the meantime, I taught her how to target to a stick so could interact with her, show her I was the dispenser of treats and move her around if I needed to. I got her to step up onto a rope perch first, then my arm, and it's only four months later that she's starting to step up onto my hand.

    That said, she now happily hangs out on my knee or shoulder, she asks me for headscratches and shoves her entire head into my hands, I scratch her over her eyelids, around her beak and under her chin, she investigates new toys before I've even finished hanging them up, and I've yet to be bitten. She'd rather move away or, if necessary, beak me than bite. I respect her expressing her discomfort subtly so she doesn't need to escalate things. I also introduce some careful inconsistency - I wear different things and, if I'm away that evening, one of my family members takes her out rather than me.

    What I would suggest is go back to the beginning. Offer her treats without asking anything else of her. Once she starts taking the treat and not moving away, start encouraging her to reach over your hand or to lift a foot - but not necessarily stepping up. Or, like I did, teach her to target and make it a game - get her to move all over her stand or between perches and reward her. As you realise, she's had a huge upheaval in her life and is probably feeling very lost and unsure of herself. Give her some of that stability by being consistent in your behaviours and just being a calm and non-demanding presence.

    If you haven't got it, Russ Shade's The Practical Pionus is a really good resource.
     
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  12. Eloy

    Eloy Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Spotlight Award Shutterbugs' Best

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    And I'm sorry to say that that is because you didn't give her time to settle in when she needed it.
    You will only get one first chance to do it right, but you should be very lucky that parrots are forgiving.
    Do it again, and do it right this time.
     
  13. VictoryCC124

    VictoryCC124 Meeting neighbors

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    Sorry, I'm late to the party, and honestly I haven't read all the previous comments.
    First, did you take your bird to the vet? Sitting in the cage on one foot sound normal, but being puffy all the time does not. Pionus are not like Amazons in this way, according to things I've read and according to my personal experience. Your bird may be cold, or may not be feeling well. Remember, they're very good at hiding illness so usually by the time you think they're sick, they're usually quite ill. But signs like this can be early indicators.
    As far as noises go, I don't have experience with a BW, but with my BH & my WC scared noises usually come out in a squawk. All other noises are contentment or looking for attention.
    For toys, each of my birds have been different. One loves to play independently all the time, and the other only plays with toys when she's showing irritation/bad attitude.
    Hope this helps! Wish you the best!!
     
  14. VictoryCC124

    VictoryCC124 Meeting neighbors

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    My Pionus' put themselves to bed. It's typically between 7:30-8:30pm. If anyone tries to mess with them once they're tucked in, they get awful cranky and nippy. If birds don't get adequate sleep they're very crabby as well. They're like toddlers, and will act out when they're tired. My other birds (Amazon, Conure, CAG) go to bed at lights which is 8:30pm, but will sometimes beg to stay up for a while. But not the Pionus', they're really to bed. Once in a great while they'll be active even after lights out with the sun still up, but not very often.
    You really need to cater to their schedule the best you can, rather than what you wish their schedule to be. My hubby likes to try to play with my WC after he's tucked in, but it never goes well and he usually gets nipped.
     
  15. javi

    javi Sprinting down the street Avenue Veteran

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    As an example. I went to a bbq last night since family is down visiting. Got home at 8:30 and went to collect all the bowls to change them out. My male who is the most docile of my pi's, got really frustrated with it being later than normal and tried to get out of cage when I was servicing his. I let him climb on door and went to get him to step up and place him back. He was very mad at that point and now I have a hole in finger. Not bad just tore off some skin. I don't blame him at all, just messed with his bed time.
     
  16. metalstitcher

    metalstitcher Rollerblading along the road

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    You need to slow things down a lot with her. She is scared and doesn't know what is going on or what happened. she needs time to take everything in. Give her some space and don't force her to do anything. Just let her be for a few days including treats. She is so stressed out right now it's not worth making her take them from you just to have her bolt to the other end of her cage and drop it. Just being in the room with her sitting there in the same space close but not to close is enough for her for now. She needs to get use to you and your daily routine.

    Also 10 to 10 is a bit late. Birds work better with 8 to 8 or 9 to 9. They like the day time. I work nights and my birds are up at 8 every morning even if Gracie gets up on my days off in the middle of the night to spend time with me I will let her sleep in because she misses her mommy. But during the week she is up at 8 same with Bo. After some time start leaving her cage door open and keep about your day and talk to her don't rush things though. Soon enough she will be okay and she will start wanting to know what you are doing and come see you. Baby steps is everything when bringing a parrot into a new situation.
     
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  17. finchly

    finchly Rollerblading along the road

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    My pi put himself to bed at 5:30 when he first came! We let this go on (right beside the television) for a year or more. Eventually he stayed up later, and found that it was really fun to sit outside with me at sundown.
    I think understanding their sounds is a constant struggle but I also think you need to watch for visual cues more than vocal cues. Ernie apparently thinks I am very dumb so when I ask if he wants to step up and he doesn't, he says no but also scoots back and leans under his toy to be sure I get it. :hehe:
     
  18. Dartman

    Dartman Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award

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    When Lurch got here he went to bed about 8pm. After he started to like us he adjusted his schedule to ours but would tend to sleep in a bit after we left for work. He started staying up till around 11 and actually fighting going in to bed. Nerd bird went in on his own when he was ready and it could be anything from 9 to 11 but I think he usually wandered in around 10. Dobby also likes to be part of the action but many times finds a dark area to roost and hope nobody notices so he can stay out but sleep. He used to fight nite nite time and fly all over and stay up high but now will eventually step up because he really is tired, sometimes with token beakings, to be put in for the night. He used to have a sleep cage with Momazon he liked but seems fine using his one house so we cover him at night which he seems OK with.
     

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