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Discussion in 'Welcome Lane' started by cyndist, 1/11/17 at 4:40 AM.

  1. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    Hello all! I'm new to this community but not to parrots. I am owned by a DHYA (Peanut), U2 (Nani) and Lilac Crowned Amazon (Bakari).
    Peanut is 19 years old (she was 9 months old when she came to live with us), Nani is 16 and Bakari was a rescue so no idea how old he/she is. Just a note all birds did go for new bird check and blood work and quarantined.
    I am going to give the condensed version of what's going on with Peanut. She had blood work done her SGOT is very high. Her CPK is normal range. Liver damage! This scares me to no end. Unsure how since she has always been on pellets (Zupreem fruit flavored but switched her to Harrison's High Potency since dx) and a couple nuts for treats and fresh foods. She was given an inj of Doxycycline with another inj Monday at the local vet who does not normally see parrots,,,,,rural vet (the vet we take her to is 3 hours away not an avian vet but does consult with an avian vet who does not see patients anymore).
    Dr also put her on Baytril .16cc susp. BID until gone. Milk Thistle and DMG added to water.
    Do you ever feel that the Dr really doesn't want to help? I call and wait days for a call back. The other veterinarian that treats parrots are taking no new patients. I know I just have to remind myself that they do have a very busy practice (which they do). And Peanut is not their only patient.
    I have been searching the internet high and low for recipes to make for her and the other two. Peanut eats like there is no tomorrow! Off to search forum for ideas.
    Now that I have this all typed out I probably should have put this in a different part of the forum. =)
    eta: No longer give the couple of nuts as treat.
    Thanks for reading
    Cindy
    Peanut
    Nani
    and
    Bakari
     
  2. expressmailtome

    expressmailtome Ripping up the road Administrator Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    Welcome! Do you need help finding a new veterinarian?
     
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  3. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award I Can't Stop Posting!

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    Hello and welcome to AA. I know it is frightening to have a sick bird and lack of response from avian vets. Hopefully this situation will not continue and you will find another vet. Some vets that are not avian certified but have bird experience are good. If you have any bird clubs or rescues nearby you could check in with them for another vet recommendation. When a liver is damaged it does take a while to repair itself. Harrisons is a good choice. Dandelion greens are good for this too if you can find them in a food store. Some blends have them included in the list of ingredients. Here is a product that helps de tox the liver also https://www.amazon.com/Avitech-This...0108&sr=8-3&keywords=milk+thistle+for+parrots
     
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  4. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    I don't think we need a new veterinarian. Do you think we need a new veterinarian? There is one other vet that does see birds and I did ask if they have to anesthetize to draw blood and I was told that yes they do. So do not want to go to that veterinarian.
    The first vet we took Peanut to in Mankato, MN wanted to anesthetize to draw blood I said no. He prescribed two abx but after 3 days on the medication Peanut started convulsing (I thought she was going to die) so I stopped the meds and searched for a new vet and found the current one took her in and she checked the dosage and found that it was an extreme overdose of both abx.
    Never heard back from the first vet after I informed his office what happened. No apology nothing.
    Mankato is about 2 hours away and the current vet located in Minnetonka is 3 hours away.
    I was talking to a breeder in Brookings, SD to see about veterinarians and she recommended a vet in Watertown, SD. I contacted him but he would not see Peanut and referred me to a vet in Fargo, ND.
    And we reside in MN. We live 3 hours west of the Twin Cities.
    Oh good that is the Milk Thistle I did purchase. =)

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: 1/11/17 at 5:22 AM
  5. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award I Can't Stop Posting!

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    It should not be necessary to anesthetize a bird in order to draw blood. That speaks to me that you need to get another vet. These drugs will only serve to potentially make the liver more compromised. @Hankmacaw
     
  6. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    Wanted to add the breeder I was corresponding with never replied back after I she asked me if she was showing mating behaviour.
     
  7. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    Sorry the current vet does not anesthetize to draw blood. She actually does well with Peanut.
     
  8. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    Peanut and I also want to say thank you and we appreciate all help and information we receive.
     
  9. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    The drugs (Baytril) that your current vet gave are appropriate for any opportunistic infection that your bird may have contracted. With the bird weight and the concentration of the Baytril we can check the dosage for you. I always check the dosage if I have to go to a vet other than my regular vet. Take heart, the liver is the most regenerative organ in the body.

    The Milk Thistle is the go to medication for liver support and you should be seeing some improvement within a week or so. Lactulose is also a common supportive medication for liver disease.

    I'm so glad you got your baby off of the fruity stuff - it is high in sugars and may have contributed to the liver issues. Harrison's has NO sugars and is probably the best pellet out there. Diet is very important in controlling liver disease and your bird needs a high fiber, low fat and lower protein diet. Fresh vegetables with high Vit-B and high Vit-A content are good. Are her urates and/or urine yellow or green?

    The test you still need is an xray to determine if the liver is grossly enlarged and it there are any tumors or cirrhosis of the liver.
    Read this to find out all of the different diseases and symptoms there are; http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/08/15_evaluating_liver.pdf

    I wouldn't be afraid of anesthsizing the bird for taking blood or for xrays. My birds are always anesthesized for these procedures as it is much, much easier on a sick bird.
     
  10. sunnysmom

    sunnysmom Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue I Can't Stop Posting!

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    Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry your bird is sick.
     
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  11. Cynthia & Percy

    Cynthia & Percy cockatoo mania Super Moderator Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    welcome sorry for your sick bird
     
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  12. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    Sunnysmom thank you.
    Hankmacaw, thanks for all your advice. Yes the next step will be an xray. With Peanut I do believe that they would have to anesthetize her for the xray. Peanut was never one to be held and "pet". She does step up, give kisses and loves to be scritched. Her urates/urine white/clear. Now I would have to say greenish. Peanut weighs in at 519 grams. With the dosage of Baytril at .16 cc. Twice a day.
    I've been making that chop for all of them and add in crushed Harrison's. I also feed her oatmeal with blueberries and sweet potatoes. She seems to love blueberries. I will be buying more whole foods for her/them when I go to Sioux Falls (75 miles one way) on Friday. I'm still trying to find dandelion greens around here.
    The current vet we do want to establish with since we moved to MN from WA (which was not any better when it came to finding a vet that would see birds) and she does handle Peanut very well. Although her staff on the second blood work took Peanut cage and all to the back. I did not like that. Peanut does much better if I'm with her to get her out of her cage. She will step right up no problems, but I guess she put up a fight with the staff. So when we went in a week later I told them I would like to get her out of her cage and feel it would be less stressful on her. Dr was fine with that. Peanut actually did better with me in the room. She didn't scream or panic as bad as she did with the f/u blood draw. She was so loud and panicked that time.
    In regards to low fat low protein should probably stick to fruits and veggies. Should I cut out legumes and eggs?
    Now I'm just rambling.
    Again thank you so much to all of you.
    Cindy
     
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  13. calibird

    calibird Rollerblading along the road Premium Vendor Avenue Veteran

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    Welcome to The Avenue.
     
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  14. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    There is also a dandelion extract (non-alcoholic) made by the same company that you bought the Milk Thistle from. I would just keep her fruit intake to the blueberries - they are excellent and have more free radicals than any other fruit. Remember low sugar. Oatmeal is good for it's ability to fight cholesterol. Eggs - whites are almost pure protein - yolks have a lot of Vit-A but also too much fats.

    Legumes are good for vegetable protein, fiber, Vitamins and free radicals; Peanuts are legumes, but never feed peanuts.
    Pinto Beans;
    molybdenum285%
    folate74%
    fiber62%
    copper41%
    manganese39%
    phosphorus36%
    protein31%
    vitamin B128%
    vitamin B623%
    magnesium21%
    potassium21%
    iron20%

    Green leafy vegetables are great and the more she will eat the better. Of course, the yellow, orange and red vegetables are great.
     
  15. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    See that's what I'm worried about. The SO would always give them peanuts. When he was gone I'd take them away. She's loving the blueberries thankfully. That milk thistle has the dandelion root with it. Yes Friday will go into Pomegranate (store) and by some fresh greens for them. She also loves Jalapenos.
    Thanks
    And thanks for the welcome Calibird
     
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  16. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Provide him with another treat such as pine nuts, pistachios, almonds or walnuts - all good for them. Keep the peanuts out of the house - there is a lot of information on the internet about the danger of peanuts to parrots. Peanuts are also full of bad fats.
     
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  17. expressmailtome

    expressmailtome Ripping up the road Administrator Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    No, I do not. I was just unsure if you wanted a new veterinarian when you mentioned that your veterinarian does not normally treat parrots.
     
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  18. cyndist

    cyndist Moving in

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    Hi Express. I know it's so hard to convey emotion online. Sorry about that. The vet that does not normally treat parrots is the local vet (7 miles from here) is just going to give the Doxycycline inj. so we don't have to drive 200 miles for the inj.
    Hank thanks for all your help it's is much appreciated. Peanut loves almonds so will continue to give her one after her evening medicine. So should I hold off on all meats too? Mainly chicken.
    And thanks for all the welcomes.
    Cindy
     
  19. Tiel Feathers

    Tiel Feathers Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award I Can't Stop Posting!

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    Welcome to the forum and I'm so sorry Peanut is having liver problems. Hopefully his liver will improve with time.
    :hug8:
     
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  20. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    NO meats - no animal protein. She has liver damage of some kind and proteins (especially animal protein) is hard for the liver to process. Animal Proteins are too large for the liver to process.

    Saturated fats are bad, but unsaturated fats are good. Walnuts, almonds, red palm oil are all full of unsaturated fats.
     
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