Heating Help

[Klomonx]

I've recently added a new baby to my menagerie; a Red-Spotted Garter Snake (Thamnophis sirtalis concinnus). He's not a baby, as he's over a foot long, maybe closer to 2 feet. I haven't gotten around to measuring him yet. I don't know if he's male or female, so I'll just call him he. His name is Faust, and he eats pinkies.
Because he was an impulse buy, we haven't gotten him into a proper aquarium, but we will, asap. Please don't lecture me on this, I got plenty of flack from my mum already. He's very tame, very friendly.
I'm having an issue deciding on what brand of heaters to use. I thought someone on here could help me, so I don't have to wander onto another forum. I know he needs a heat spot between 75-85 degrees F (23.8 - 29.4 C). I also know an Incandescent Bulb, Reflecotr Light, or a Pad can work; I also know Full Spectrum isn't needed, and Florescent won't work.
But there's a ton of brands and such out there..? How do I choose which to use? How do I regulate the temp?

 

[Cockatoo-Dust]

Well i can't really help you, but i will say i'm not going to judge you for your decision.

 

[Laurul Feather Cat]

 

[zoo mom]

No experience here. But @Tongue Flicker or @MandaExotics might be able to help.

 

[Jenphilly]

My daughter @riddick07 is not on the computer. But tagging her hopefully she'll comment and add anything I miss. We've had snakes for over 10 years, so quite a bit of experience

No heat bulb or light for snakes, great for skinks and beardies but snakes should not have the glaring light. You also want constant heat source, not on / off of bulb. Most readily available and they work well but you need a rheostat with it is zoomed - ZOO MED™ REPTI THERM™ Reptile Under Tank Heater

You can use a ceramic heater if overhead heating is preferred but for a little one you might have trouble keeping temps low enough. We use the ceramic heat fixture for my daughter's large red tail but Lucky has a 6' enclosure and she's about 7' and thicker then my husband's arm.

You can find rheostat at petsmart too. Rheostat should have variable dial setting low to high, also invest in a good digital infrared thermometer, makes getting hot side of enclosure just right!

Careful using an aquarium for an enclosure, smaller snakes are escape artists and way stronger then you would expect. My daughter's first corn was a master escape artist! And be sure whatever you use its large enough for the full body to fit on hot and cool side of enclosure.

Congrats on the snake ... warning the little guys are addictive there are so many options and variations! My daughter has a growing collection of the corns and rats, and just ordered the rare black milk that gets like 6 or 7 feet and is like 4 times the girth of a king, some weird mutation. He's actually arriving today.

Anyway congrats and I'll have her post anything I missed

 

[riddick07]

Hi! Congrats on the garter....I've never been a garter fan but I did some basic research awhile back when my stepfather wanted one. I remember the diet can be tricky if they are picky about certain foods but I found this website that should help. Under tank heating with a daytime lit over head of the cage if it is dark overall so you give the snake night and day times. If it's an aquarium then you won't need the overhead light unless you've stuck the tank in a closet. Also, here is a website for snake cages I have bought recently. They work well and are very light weight so easy to move around if need be.

Garter Snake Care Guide - Gartersnake.info
Plastic Reptile Cages, Tanks and Racks. Snake, arboreal, lizard and turtle light weight custom flexwatt heated enclosures.

 

[Klomonx]

@Jenphilly
Thank you! I was leaning toward a heating pad, anyway.
So Zoomed Heater, Rheostat, good Infrared Therm.
I know he can be an escape artist, I have plenty of things to weigh it down.
I love snakes, but my mum does not. She gave me an earful upon bringing it home >_>. She says she doesn't like them, but after the week of having him home, I think she's more afraid of them.

@riddick07
He's fine with eating, I gave him a pinkie today. Didn't even have to dangle it, I dropped it on accident and after a moment of tongue flicker he just approached it and opened his mouth. No strike.
He's very tame and exploitative, also, even without the proper heat. Our house isn't too far from his required temp as it is.
I couldn't have the bigger ones because I couldn't deal with their eating of rats, : (. I have five pet rats and I couldn't bare to feed them dead ones...

 

[Klomonx]

@Jenphilly
@riddick07
Stupid question, what is a Rheostat? Can't find it on the petsmart website.

The petsmart site also says to not use under the tank heaters for aquariums? What should I do?
What about the wattage?

 

[riddick07]

Can you post a pic of the snake so I can see the size? If you put a hatchling in a bigger tank you'll freak him out and he will possibly refuse to eat or regurgitate what he eats at some point. A hatchling shouldn't have a deep water source since they can drown themselves.

I would recommend getting a plastic container if he is still little and actually recommend a plastic one when he is an adult instead of a glass tank. You can drill holes for air in the plastic container and for air circulation. I actually don't stick the zoomed mats on the plastic container anyway just slid them underneath.

My setup for my smaller guys. The black cages are the boaphiles with slightly older corn snakes in them. The three plastic ones on top are three young snakes that are not big enough for an adult cage yet.






For a hatchling size snake...since if you think pinkies are a big enough food source I'm guessing he is a baby.
Ziploc 6-Piece Extra Small Weathertight Storage Box Set - Walmart.com

Zoomed Heat - 4 watts for the container I showed you.
ZOO MED™ REPTI THERM™ Reptile Under Tank Heater | Heaters | PetSmart

Zoomed Rheostat
Amazon.com : Zoo Med ReptiTemp Rheostat : Pet Habitat Decor : Pet Supplies

Instead of the Rheostat I recommend getting this one room Zilla if your house is hotter overall. This one will turn off the heat source when the cage reaches the temp you set it to....keeps your new guy from overheating and dying on you.
Amazon.com : R-Zilla Controller Temperature, 500-watt : Aquarium Heaters : Pet Supplies

And some infrared thermometers....
Infrared Digital Thermometers

 

[Klomonx]

Can you post a pic of the snake so I can see the size? If you put a hatchling in a bigger tank you'll freak him out and he will possibly refuse to eat or regurgitate what he eats at some point. A hatchling shouldn't have a deep water source since they can drown themselves.

I would recommend getting a plastic container if he is still little and actually recommend a plastic one when he is an adult instead of a glass tank. You can drill holes for air in the plastic container and for air circulation. I actually don't stick the zoomed mats on the plastic container anyway just slid them underneath.

My setup for my smaller guys. The black cages are the boaphiles with slightly older corn snakes in them. The three plastic ones on top are three young snakes that are not big enough for an adult cage yet.






For a hatchling size snake...since if you think pinkies are a big enough food source I'm guessing he is a baby.
Ziploc 6-Piece Extra Small Weathertight Storage Box Set - Walmart.com

Zoomed Heat - 4 watts for the container I showed you.
ZOO MED™ REPTI THERM™ Reptile Under Tank Heater | Heaters | PetSmart

Zoomed Rheostat
Amazon.com : Zoo Med ReptiTemp Rheostat : Pet Habitat Decor : Pet Supplies

Instead of the Rheostat I recommend getting this one room Zilla if your house is hotter overall. This one will turn off the heat source when the cage reaches the temp you set it to....keeps your new guy from overheating and dying on you.
Amazon.com : R-Zilla Controller Temperature, 500-watt : Aquarium Heaters : Pet Supplies

And some infrared thermometers....
Infrared Digital Thermometers

I can't get a picture, but Garters don't get much bigger than 2feet, and they aren't nearly as thick around as even a corn snake, He's like just the width of my finger or so. My guy is over a foot long, probably closer to 2, but not over. Would you still recommend such for him? I'm not sure if we can get one with holes drilled in small enough? He's really skinny, like I said. I also don't understand how you put the heating pads there...? You say they just go under? But...they say not to use them for plastic =/ Im just confused. I don't want a fire starting.
My house is often cooler, not hotter. We don't like the temps to be above 70.
We're going to be going to petco/smart tomorrow to get these things, but I'm just overwhelmed with all the options and what to get.
I really don't know if a bin will work for me, because I don't know if holes can be drilled small enough, and my mum wouldn't appreciate a bin being used for a snake she doesn't even want in the house.

 

[Jenphilly]

Sorry... was not back online...

So some answers, I'll just put from both me and Victoria (riddick07) since she's sitting across from me on the sectional in the living room

Rheostat is the device which you control the heaters, whether its a bulb or a pad. Here is one from amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-RT10-...=UTF8&qid=1432158773&sr=8-2&keywords=rheostat

Anyone in your home have a soldering iron? Easier to put holes in a bin then an actual drill and you can make them much smaller. You can even heat up something like an ice pick or such to just melt a hole thru the plastic in the bin. We just put holes in a couple new bins for Victoria's latest new snakes. The bins are pretty cheap and Victoria said she sent you the link for the ziploc bin which is really awesome because it has a foam lining piece, so its almost escape proof. I think we paid like $9 for the one we just picked up at walmart. The heating mats don't get hot enough to melt the plastic, so fire hazard really isn't an issue. Garters are not ones we keep, but quick search, looks like 80 or so should be your 'hot' side, so you definitely want a rheo to keep the temps from getting too hot, so if you need to keep heat to low 80s, no way you'll be starting a fire

I'm not a big fan of glass tanks, part of the reason is that the glass is very heat conductive, so its really hard to get a truly cool / hot side unless you have a really large tank. What size where you thinking of using? A ten gallon size definitely won't work.

There is also one other option for heat that may work for you - a heating pad for people. Just need to find one that does not shut off automatically. If you set on low, you should get about the right temp, and if still too warm, you can layer a tee or towel to work thru the right temps. My recommendation is still heating mat with rheo, the best way to truly control temps and be able to control them as the seasons change, when its cooler in your home, you'll need to increase heat to get the right hot side and right ambient temp; middle of summer you reduce for opposite effect.

 

[Klomonx]

Sorry... was not back online...

So some answers, I'll just put from both me and Victoria (riddick07) since she's sitting across from me on the sectional in the living room

Rheostat is the device which you control the heaters, whether its a bulb or a pad. Here is one from amazon - Amazon.com : Zoo Med ReptiTemp Rheostat : Pet Habitat Decor : Pet Supplies

Anyone in your home have a soldering iron? Easier to put holes in a bin then an actual drill and you can make them much smaller. You can even heat up something like an ice pick or such to just melt a hole thru the plastic in the bin. We just put holes in a couple new bins for Victoria's latest new snakes. The bins are pretty cheap and Victoria said she sent you the link for the ziploc bin which is really awesome because it has a foam lining piece, so its almost escape proof. I think we paid like $9 for the one we just picked up at walmart. The heating mats don't get hot enough to melt the plastic, so fire hazard really isn't an issue. Garters are not ones we keep, but quick search, looks like 80 or so should be your 'hot' side, so you definitely want a rheo to keep the temps from getting too hot, so if you need to keep heat to low 80s, no way you'll be starting a fire

I'm not a big fan of glass tanks, part of the reason is that the glass is very heat conductive, so its really hard to get a truly cool / hot side unless you have a really large tank. What size where you thinking of using? A ten gallon size definitely won't work.

There is also one other option for heat that may work for you - a heating pad for people. Just need to find one that does not shut off automatically. If you set on low, you should get about the right temp, and if still too warm, you can layer a tee or towel to work thru the right temps. My recommendation is still heating mat with rheo, the best way to truly control temps and be able to control them as the seasons change, when its cooler in your home, you'll need to increase heat to get the right hot side and right ambient temp; middle of summer you reduce for opposite effect.

See I just... I don't know if a bin will work, I don't have a way to make holes in it. And my mum won't appreciate a bit being used to hold a snake.
Everything I read said glass was fine, so now I'm just really overwhelmed and confused. I was planning on getting a 20 gallon tank, as that is what is recommended on various sites for a garter.

 

[MandaExotics]

Sorry, I haven't been on in a while
Petsmart used to carry rheostats, but even though it should be considered a requirement MOST people decide not to buy them so many of these stores stopped carrying them. Amazon or ebay carry either rheostats or dimmers (depending on how much money you want to spend either are appropriate). Your mom and pop pet store, if you have one, should also be able to special order it. They are important to make sure the temperature is properly regulated.

I use a soldering iron for my plastic tubs or acrylic cages, and can get the holes small enough so smaller snakes don't escape (and the soldering iron cost me $10). You can also attach screening outside the bin if you're concerned (I've done that for spiderlings mainly re-using plastic containers). I've known quite a few people who had their small snakes escape because they thought the terrarium glass tanks that supposedly lock were secure, as is why I'm not fond of using them except for my lizards. Smaller snakes can escape out of more than some people think they can but it isn't rocket science keeping them in. I like plastic totes since it's cheaper and holds in heat and humidity better. Not to mention easier to carry it around if you ever need to. However, I assume it is your mother's place and it's her rules to respect most importantly, so if she requires you get a 20 gallon aquarium then just make sure it's secure and no surprises come along by "that itty bitty hole I didn't see" or "the people at the pet store told me it was secure"



@riddick07 I also use boaphile platics but have contemplated trying a cage from animal plastics. Have you any experience with them by chance? Figure it's a long shot but you might know

 

[Jenphilly]

See I just... I don't know if a bin will work, I don't have a way to make holes in it. And my mum won't appreciate a bit being used to hold a snake.
Everything I read said glass was fine, so now I'm just really overwhelmed and confused. I was planning on getting a 20 gallon tank, as that is what is recommended on various sites for a garter.

I can only share that we've only ever used a glass tank once for a snake, and the snake was successful in escaping many times. And it was a tank made for reptiles / snakes, had the sliding / locking screen. Just no one told Snowy she couldn't get out

Making holes in the plastic is really easy.... Even a screwdriver heated till work, or a metal shish-kabob type skewer. I'm not sure why mom would be upset about using a bin, literally its a $10 or so puchase and even if you mess up the holes, it can still be used for most basic storage needs.

If mom insists on the 20 gallon aquarium (which I expect will be substantially higher in cost), but be very careful with the sliding screen type sold for snakes, there is often a tiny gap and a really small garter will easily make it out if that gap is there. Believe me, finding an escaped snake is not easy, I'll admit we had a beautiful rainbow boa get out and we never found him. So, take our lesson to heart and be really careful about the enclosure you use.

Do you have any family members who do any type of metal or woodworking for hobby or work? Or even guys that weld or work on cars, do any plumbing? Any of those guys would have a soldering iron and could put holes in a bin for you in literally a minute. Or you can pick one up from Walmart... just did a quick search - 3M Soldering Iron - Walmart.com not even $6.... so let's budget - $15 for a bin, $6 for a soldering iron to poke holes.... so $21 for a bin enclosure.

Walmart has a 10 gallon reptile tanks for $49.97 Aqua Culture 10 Gallon Reptile Kit - Walmart.com

Petsmart tank / enclosure starts at $55.99

What do you have the garter living in right now??

 

[Klomonx]

Alright, an update.
I've been sick all week, and unable to go out and get supplies for the snake. Due to parents' schedules, I won't be able to until this coming weekend. I've asked parents and they've agreed to get one of the plastic bins, though mum is still afraid that any heat will cause the plastic to melt. We're still not sure if we can make holes small enough, but we're going to try with what we can.
At the moment, we've got him in a small Kritter Keeper, with a water source and a cardboard hidey spot (we'll get him proper things when we go out to buy the rest of his supplies). He'll be sitting on top of a wooden dresser, and is eating well. Every other day I clean his cage. He is still active despite not having a heat source.

 

[MandaExotics]

Alright, an update.
I've been sick all week, and unable to go out and get supplies for the snake. Due to parents' schedules, I won't be able to until this coming weekend. I've asked parents and they've agreed to get one of the plastic bins, though mum is still afraid that any heat will cause the plastic to melt. We're still not sure if we can make holes small enough, but we're going to try with what we can.
At the moment, we've got him in a small Kritter Keeper, with a water source and a cardboard hidey spot (we'll get him proper things when we go out to buy the rest of his supplies). He'll be sitting on top of a wooden dresser, and is eating well. Every other day I clean his cage. He is still active despite not having a heat source.

A rheostat will prevent melting/overheating of your under tank heater. I can make holes small enough with a soldering iron on plastic that 1/2" spiderlings can't get out as well as small snakes, just be patient with it. For the UTHs that recommend not sticking them on plastic (if that's the kind you buy) you can get a cheap pane of glass cut at Lowes to go under the plastic bin. I would consider this overkill however if you regulate the under tank heater. Glad the little guy is doing well.

I use sticky back velcro for my travel bins as an added precaution during driving, and that works perfectly for me

However you do it, is ultimately up to you. Congrats on the little guy!

 

[Klomonx]

Update #2!
Today I got him his supplies, as I lucked out and a relative was able to drive me.
I got:
- Proper hide spot
- Proper Waterdish
- Heating Pad
- Digital Them.
- and the Zilla Temp Controller!

Only need the tub now.

 

[Klomonx]

Update #3
- I have the tub, it's a tiny bit smaller than the ones shown, but mum surprised me and did the holes and everything.
- The heating pad says not to use it with paper towels, so I'm set back again. Would a pillow case work?
@MandaExotics @Jenphilly @riddick07

 

[MandaExotics]

I foresee a pillow case as substrate (which is what I'm assuming the paper towels are for) to be a pain to clean. With the temp controller and that the paper towels aren't literally touching the heating pad I wouldn't foresee an issue using it (unless I'm missing the point completely here). Newspaper and aspen are alternative beddings as well. Paper towels are great though

 

[Klomonx]

I foresee a pillow case as substrate (which is what I'm assuming the paper towels are for) to be a pain to clean. With the temp controller and that the paper towels aren't literally touching the heating pad I wouldn't foresee an issue using it (unless I'm missing the point completely here). Newspaper and aspen are alternative beddings as well. Paper towels are great though

We'll throw the pillowcase in the washer... my rats have a similar set up and that's just what we do, cleans fine.
The heating pad directions say not to use newspaper or paper towels, and if you use it it voids warranty if it hurts your animal.