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Happy Dance Paco is eating Pellets!

Snowghost

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Buddy is beautiful! I never heard of a Mexican Red Headed Amazon nor have I ever seen one. He is beautiful!

Pace was plucking because his previous owner was working two jobs and didn't have time to spend with him. She may not have kept him very clean and fed him a proper diet, however she did know that his plucking was because he was not happy. She has had a stroke since she gave him to me. It kind of bothers me that when I she did give him to me she never called to see how he was doing. I thought that was odd, she did have him for 6 years. I dunno. I used to see her at the gas station where she worked and she asked how he is. Her son works there and he asks about him.

Paco is still happy eating his pellets (I can tell by the crunching sound they make) I try not to give them to him every day as he seems to get bored very easily. He does still munch on his warm veggie pasta. I have been letting his veggies and fruit sit out for a few minutes thinking maybe they are too cold and he doesn't like that.

As for sitting the bigger perch he must have sat on it for a while (I was out of the house most of the day) there was a nice pile of poo under it. It will help his nails and I wonder if he will need a trim in the future.

Well back to job hunting......
 

Rain Bow

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Thank you! I've worked hard to clean this liittle Dude up. He wasn't eating right, or had a bath (recently) when I inhereted him. He was on an seed & dry fruit diet from what I could tell. His feathers were dull. He's gotten off almost all the dry seed & as you know lotsa fresh & sprouts. He finally ate a Unapproved Vendor pellet yesterday! It took random pellets going in his bowl for a month. So just because it appears they're not watching, they really are. Problem was it was from a combo bag, so I'm not sure what he actually ate! Lol, we'll just keep trying.

I think you're making great stridees w/ Paco! I'm sure the lady that had the stroke is so preoccupied w/ her situation. My guess is Paco may have just been too much for her, before you took him on. There's so much to do for them & not even all the extra mind stimulation for a grey. If she's not even asking about how he is, she just may not be as into her pets as we are. It's better thst he's with you if that's the case. IMHO! Has he stopped the plucking w/ you? If she was working all the time he may have been completely bored. Poor guys had such a rough life... You tell him lifes looking up for him! & don't forget lotsa extra air kisses. :cloud9:
 

Snowghost

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I will have to look into Unapproved Vendor sprouts. Still not sure if it's a waste of money as Paco is still cautious of new things. Great work with Buddy, I wasn't able to convert Bugsy my White Front Amazon to a healthier diet. I agree with you, that Paco's previous owner just wasn't into birds as we are here at AA. I don't blame her. She did tell me she see's my photos on FB of him and I do post a lot, LOL.

I have another issue with this little stinker. Even though I'm hesitant in having him step up, he is beaking me harder. I don't want to stop asking him to step up as I did once after he chomped hard. I fear a step backwards and lose the ground we have accomplished.

Twice yesterday he stepped up and he clamped on my arm pretty hard but I just let him and put him on his perch.

Is there anything I can so so he won't bite down so hard? I think both times was due to the fact he was nervous. My grandson was here and he was scared, not sure what he was upset about the first time but I could tell he was not relaxed.

This guys sure keeps me on my toes.
 

Clueless

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the fact he was nervous. My grandson was here and he was scared,



Isn't it amazing how we know what the bite was from???
 

Snowghost

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I just hope it doesn't continue, not sure if he will ever calm down, his little chest still quivers when I get to close and it breaks my heart.
 

Rain Bow

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I will have to look into Unapproved Vendor sprouts. Still not sure if it's a waste of money as Paco is still cautious of new things. Great work with Buddy, I wasn't able to convert Bugsy my White Front Amazon to a healthier diet. I agree with you, that Paco's previous owner just wasn't into birds as we are here at AA. I don't blame her. She did tell me she see's my photos on FB of him and I do post a lot, LOL.

I have another issue with this little stinker. Even though I'm hesitant in having him step up, he is beaking me harder. I don't want to stop asking him to step up as I did once after he chomped hard. I fear a step backwards and lose the ground we have accomplished.

Twice yesterday he stepped up and he clamped on my arm pretty hard but I just let him and put him on his perch.

Is there anything I can so so he won't bite down so hard? I think both times was due to the fact he was nervous. My grandson was here and he was scared, not sure what he was upset about the first time but I could tell he was not relaxed.

This guys sure keeps me on my toes.

I'm a disbeliever that totally ignoring bites as always the best option. I'm sorry that your grandson got scared but believe it or not, I think, it's a good thing, errr, sort of... good in the thought that your honeymoon phase is over. It's my belief that him biting harder is a 2 fold thing. 1) It's saying that the "Honeymoon" phase is ending. If you don't know what it is, its the begining period of having a bird where they are watching everything & learning. Your schedule, moods, ups & downs if there are other pets, & peeps.

2) Now is the terrible 2's Ma! He's getting confident w/ you. He's testing you. Those bites are trying to gauge everything from your reaction to what is causing you pain or not. Buddy is an older bird w/ a strong knowledge of english. I told him ow, before it hurt, gave him a bad bird look & continued on. Now is Paco that literate? Probably being a Grey& being older... Buddy doesn't say more than 4-5 words but he really understands english very well. I also read body language through this to not push it too far. I learned him while w/ him learning me. I will say that I got bit a few times because he bluffed & I pushed. I'm not sure that Grey's bluff like Zon's do.

Now, all that being said, that's what worked for us. I will add that this is for what is considered a normal companion relationship w/ a bird. I don't think walking away immediately after this is wise, as your giving him what he wants & the bites can get worse. By continuing on (w/ task) & giving the appearance that it was you that chose to walk away as you were finished & not because of the peck, is always a better option. The only time I disagree w/ this is in a spouse & bird head to head, in the, my bird hates my partner situation. That's a whole different logic which is all about dominance.

I would appreciate a few Grey opinions in here, so sorry for the tags. @Hawk12237 , @saroj12 , @BertAllen , & I'm gonna add in @JLcribber just for an additional what else did we miss...
 

JLcribber

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All bites are reinforcing. Avoid the Bite. Which automatically eliminates the reaction. Which automatically eliminates the reward.

We don't own these large birds. We "manage" them just like a zookeeper would. They know that sometimes a "tool" is needed.

Give this thread a read.

Pictures - The T stick. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
 

Rain Bow

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All bites are reinforcing. Avoid the Bite. Which automatically eliminates the reaction. Which automatically eliminates the reward.

We don't own these large birds. We "manage" them just like a zookeeper would. They know that sometimes a "tool" is needed.

Give this thread a read.

Pictures - The T stick. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
Thanks John! I :heart: it when you tell me I'm totally off base, or T perch so to speak. I always learn @ least 2 more things. This was a great article, Ty for correcting me!!!

:shy:
 

BertAllen

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All bites are reinforcing. Avoid the Bite. Which automatically eliminates the reaction. Which automatically eliminates the reward.
Yep I dripped a lot of blood before I learned to read Tinker. Not an issue anymore (x fingers) as I can tell when not to get near when he is super excited playing or disturbing him when he is zoned out on the back of my chair.
That tube bell is gone after he sneak attacked me and bit the back of my neck (I mentioned it in the Tinker is home thread) for whatever reason it triggered a possessive reaction in him and he was very aggressive. It made a very distinctive tinkling sound that he was fascinated with.
 

Rain Bow

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Yep I dripped a lot of blood before I learned to read Tinker. Not an issue anymore (x fingers) as I can tell when not to get near when he is super excited playing or disturbing him when he is zoned out on the back of my chair.
That tube bell is gone after he sneak attacked me and bit the back of my neck (I mentioned it in the Tinker is home thread) for whatever reason it triggered a possessive reaction in him and he was very aggressive. It made a very distinctive tinkling sound that he was fascinated with.

Wow, I know that our fids have smell, taste & noise triggers but a bell. Buddy's hormonal trigger in the spring/summer seems to be banana's. He can only have about a third of a small chip in his bowl, & I have to avoid new fresh banana's completely when his mood strikes. I really think its more about how easy he can shoot it anywhere from his face during this time, but why encourage.
 

Snowghost

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My grandson wasn't scared, Paco was. This was a change for Paco having people over and the different voices. Sorry about the confusion. I thought maybe that is why he clamped on my arm a little harder, out of fear?

He really isn't biting as in breaking the skin, he is clamping down to steady himself? I don't know, my Zon never stepped up. So I have a lot to learn about training.

I don't say ouch, I just tell him, "Good boy, step up, let's go bye bye" and slowly place him on the perch. I keep the same routine every day so he knows what to expect. He still isn't comprehending that "bye, bye, lets get in your cage" yet. I due both, bribe him with a treat, (he is back to liking almonds) to get in his cage or step up. With the last two hard pinches with his beak on my arm I am apprehensive in trying to keep using my arm.

Will he continue to beak down hard? I have worn a jean jacket but the material slipped. He is terrified of a towel. I'm finally getting him used to newspaper, I balled a sheet up yesterday and he growled at it. Sad to see a large bird scared of a sheet of newspaper.

What is a "bad bird look"? @Rain Bow ? I can understand the testing stage. Not sure how well his comprehension is, I seriously think his life was in the living room, in the corner with no socialization. He is becoming more vocal each day.

I honestly think he spent his days and nights alone all of the time since he is so scared of everything. I am trying right now to become comfortable around newspaper. One item at a time.


Thank you for your suggestion John, however Paco is terrified of any stick at the moment. I don't know why. That will be another issue. Right now he is even afraid of millet spray and anything new.

I agree we don't own them, we manage them.

Thank you all for your advice and I look forward to learning more.
 

Clueless

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You can also wrap your arm with an elastic bandage wrap before putting on your shirt.
 

Rain Bow

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You can also wrap your arm with an elastic bandage wrap before putting on your shirt.
Great idea My dear! Hide it under what you're wearing. :)


I think Paco's fear is normal adjustment stuff. I think trying to give him more time to adjust to new things might help. Like get the T stick & do the closer & closer to the cage thing. Then tell him your putting it in the cage & very slowly place it on the floor in the cage. Kind of thing. This can take a ton of time w/ toys. Maybe someone else can say w/ a stick.

Socializing a bird takes time too. Getting them used to new peeps, even new family members takes time.

There's a ton to read in this forum, the green ones would probably be where I'd focus to start.

Behavior Byway | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

It helps us understand some of the why's & what to do & not do. I still recommend a T stick for placement but like you Buddy was scared of mine & we got thru it, although painfully in the beginning but that was more nails then beak. I looked like I'd wrestled a kitten for a few days. :D

If you have company over, (in the beginning anyway) you may want to keep him in the cage until he adjusts & trusts you more. It will also keep him from flying out accidentally. :unsure1: I recommend a double door or a curtain door situation (if he flies) & don't assume because he hasn't . that he can't. :( We can talk more about this too if you want/need to. I know how hard you're trying & it is so dang much w/ birdys to take it all in @ one time is a big deal.
 

Snowghost

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Thank you so much Rain. Yes he is a bit more work then my Zon was. However I was busier then, LOL. Raising my daughter and just life. A CAG is certainly different, he is more intelligent and bigger! Each day I can see improvement. His feathers are really looking nice and his tail feathers are coming in. He is really vocal when I put the music on. I think for right now we will work on stepping up on my arm. Last night I gave him a tiny piece of chip and he stepped up with it in his beak. Can't bite when your mouth is full, and no he does not get chips often that might have been his third in 5 months. I don't get a lot of company, just the grandkids this week. My 8 year old grandson is fascinated by him and goes slow around him. Thank you for the compliment, I am trying to work with him, make sure he is fed a healthy diet. I will look at the green sections. I read other posts and as much info as I can on greys.

I don't know about flying. The room we are in was big enough for Bugsy to fly to the top of the door. I am not sure if he knows he can fly. He has flapped his wings a few times and he landed on the floor twice. He is in a back room with a screen door over the wooden door. This is locked when I am not home, just habit, when the Zon was alive we had dogs in the house but they crossed the rainbow bridge 2 days before Bugsy, yeah it was a tough week.

I appreciate everyone's advice and encouragement. I wish I had found this group when Bugsy was healthy and full of spunk. Sigh... I believe everything happens for a reason.
 

Rain Bow

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Thank you so much Rain. Yes he is a bit more work then my Zon was. However I was busier then, LOL. Raising my daughter and just life. A CAG is certainly different, he is more intelligent and bigger! Each day I can see improvement. His feathers are really looking nice and his tail feathers are coming in. He is really vocal when I put the music on. I think for right now we will work on stepping up on my arm. Last night I gave him a tiny piece of chip and he stepped up with it in his beak. Can't bite when your mouth is full, and no he does not get chips often that might have been his third in 5 months. I don't get a lot of company, just the grandkids this week. My 8 year old grandson is fascinated by him and goes slow around him. Thank you for the compliment, I am trying to work with him, make sure he is fed a healthy diet. I will look at the green sections. I read other posts and as much info as I can on greys.

I don't know about flying. The room we are in was big enough for Bugsy to fly to the top of the door. I am not sure if he knows he can fly. He has flapped his wings a few times and he landed on the floor twice. He is in a back room with a screen door over the wooden door. This is locked when I am not home, just habit, when the Zon was alive we had dogs in the house but they crossed the rainbow bridge 2 days before Bugsy, yeah it was a tough week.

I appreciate everyone's advice and encouragement. I wish I had found this group when Bugsy was healthy and full of spunk. Sigh... I believe everything happens for a reason.

Great that you keep that door locked when you're not home. You may want to keep it locked even when you are home so that Paco can't accidently fly out as someone comes in. It's too bad that you can't do a double door thing there. I read a hreat article about flying & how birds can spook fly even though they never flew. It may have actually been John that wrote it.

This is an important thing to read & may convince you to keep the door locked just because of fright flying. However, I cannot find it.

@JLcribber Does an article like this sound familiar that you may have written an actual article on? I hope I'm rememberimg right & it was John. He writes some hum dingers & I find he's always spot on...
 

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Sometimes I think we just fuss too much about our birds. Tinker seems to like certain foods and not others then like the foods he didn't like and dislike foods he liked the month before. Confusing for sure but then maybe not. If I feed something for three days I change up and feed something else the next three days. This seems to work wonders. Right from the beginning he wouldn't eat a chop, yesterday I chopped up some and he ate it up like it was candy.
The last two days created a long day in his house (cage) since we had a funeral etc that we just had to be at. He was fine when we got home after 9pm.
I keep him on a semi schedule, it could change at anytime. He seems to adjust quite well with it.

But having said that, I do spent quality time with him for two hours everyday just not at the same time everyday. Yeah I know it's easy for me since I'm retired right, wrong I'm busy as all get out with 6 Grand kids and 5 great grand kids, being a director at a shooting range and a safety instructor at said range.

As for biting well all I can say is go with the flow and learn your birds signals, trust me it is hard but one day it will all fall into place.

Teresa don't despair it will work out with time. Your doing a fine job!
 

Snowghost

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Wow Rain and Dave thanks for the encouragement. As for the two door system the bedroom is in the back and the front door is rooms away. I am not worried about a "scared" flight. I don't think there is enough room for him to fly and he would have to make a left to get to the screen door, it has a spring on it so it automatically closes behind me. More like a slam, I hate the noise so I keep my hand on it. Twice he has fluttered to the floor. I hate it that his world is my room only and he only sits on the top of his cage in the corner. My Amazon would sit on the T stand and could see me at the dinning room table, or she would sit on top of the top. I still tear up when I look at the top of the door and she is not there. I would like to enlarge Paco's world, however, he seems to be adjusting better each day.

Dave you are absolutely right that I am worrying about Paco too much. I spoke to my daughter about me being overly concerned about Paco. I worry when I'm not home by 6 to give him is evening meal. I wake up at night to make sure he is o.k. I know its because I lost Bugsy I am stressing on making a mistake with Paco.

I do switch up his food and have eased up on my worrying. One day he likes broccoli, and then one day he gobbles down carrots the next throws them to the floor. So I don't stress over it as much.

It is really great to hear from you and realize I am not the only one that has fears and worries about the health of our birds and their safety.
 

Rain Bow

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Wow Rain and Dave thanks for the encouragement. As for the two door system the bedroom is in the back and the front door is rooms away. I am not worried about a "scared" flight. I don't think there is enough room for him to fly and he would have to make a left to get to the screen door, it has a spring on it so it automatically closes behind me. More like a slam, I hate the noise so I keep my hand on it. Twice he has fluttered to the floor. I hate it that his world is my room only and he only sits on the top of his cage in the corner. My Amazon would sit on the T stand and could see me at the dinning room table, or she would sit on top of the top. I still tear up when I look at the top of the door and she is not there. I would like to enlarge Paco's world, however, he seems to be adjusting better each day.

Dave you are absolutely right that I am worrying about Paco too much. I spoke to my daughter about me being overly concerned about Paco. I worry when I'm not home by 6 to give him is evening meal. I wake up at night to make sure he is o.k. I know its because I lost Bugsy I am stressing on making a mistake with Paco.

I do switch up his food and have eased up on my worrying. One day he likes broccoli, and then one day he gobbles down carrots the next throws them to the floor. So I don't stress over it as much.

It is really great to hear from you and realize I am not the only one that has fears and worries about the health of our birds and their safety.

I'm sorry I've been off for a few days. I think BertAllan is right. It is hard when sometimes they give (or what we read as mixed signals). But lets think about this, in nature food is as fresh as it is on the plant. Once it's picked or falls off it takes little time for it to not be as "fresh" & in this instance I mean, true freshness. In our lives our fridges make our "freshness". To them there are no fridges, they have (IMO) a more acute sense of freshness compared to us.

Now early yesterday morning my StepDad took me to get some milk @ the grocery. I picked up some Green Beans & Snap peas @ the grocery for Buddy to get thru till I go shopping next week. Both veggies were beautifully fresh to me. For dinner I washed a big bowl for us to share & Buddy's fav is usually the snap peas. (I think it's the higher levels of natural sugars in them.) He passed. He scarfed up 3 huge green beans. Totally passed on the peas. Ate 3 peas literally 3 little o peas. No shell.

Was it, that one was fresher then the other. I don't think so. Even if this was the case wouldn't the pod hav4 protected the 3 o peas w/in? Maybe he was just "In the mood" for beans...

Do they see in the same colors & ways we do, No. Scientists have proven that. So isn't it fair to think that they may have a sense of "freshness" we don't. I wonder because they're lives depend on it in nature. Our food instincts & ability to survive bad food has changed because of science & technology, fridges & antibiotics. Thiers really hasn't.

I don't know if this helps us worry less or is maybe another reason to always try to keep in mind that there are lots of ways to think about & handle things when it comes to our birds. We're not always all right or all wrong but we have to give them the ability to make their own choices, when it's safe for them, as long as Paco is making progress w/ accepting you, he's learning to trust you. We may think they're not eating much, but without weight we don't know.

I know because your just starting to handle Paco your not weighing him regularly & it could be making you more nervous. You'll be able to do that in time, I didn't even start weighing Buddy till after I'd had him for over 6 months & initially it wasn't accurate because I wasn't doing it first thing when he got up & hadn't eaten yet.

Sometimes, the best things come w/ time, once our blood, sweat & tears are in it. :)

:hug6: your going down a good path I think. :hug6:
 

Snowghost

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Thanks for the encouragement. I am starting to relax more around him.

I'm not concerned about his weight. I was just wondering how much he should be eating. Bugsy (Amazon) was wild caught and ate very little veggies and fruit. I would give her dried fruit and she ate that. (I was over the moon happy) I always left her with a full bowel of seed. She got two peanuts. With Paco I give him veggies and fruit in the morning, removed after a while when he is done eating, not even an hour. Then crumbled up avi cakes, pellets, nutri-berries and a little bit of seed mix, no sunflower seeds or peanuts. His bowel is not full all day, he ignores the dried peas, and lentils? (little yellow peas) he eats the tiny white seeds, (not sure what they are) and he goes for the pumpkin seeds.

If I leave him all day is that enough food?

I try to make it home by 6 or at least before dark (crazy week this week) I was just wondering if he is getting enough to eat.

I can tell he is trusting me more and more. He now scoots over when I reach for his water, and he is spoiled, I hold his bowl of goodies to nibble on while on top of his cage then I place the bowl inside his cage. He no longer reaches out in order to bite and just patiently watches me, of course I'm talking to him the whole time. We are getting to know each others habits and seem to be settling in. At night he climbs upside down, rings his bell and then calms down to preen while I have a lamp on low to read a little bit. In the morning he hoots like an owl, he gets out of the cage and we have breakfast and chatter time.

P.S.

He loves rock music, 70's of course, LOL.
 
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