Hand-Feeding a Baby

[Daema]

Ok, so I asked many many questions in a previous thread, now I have more regarding hand-feeding.

I'd like to do abundance weaning with my girl for another 7 - 9 months(weaning her, if she hasn't already lost interest in it on her own, at 12 - 14 months of age). I'm taking her home next Friday, but I've never hand-fed a baby parrot. I'm aware of Slow Crop and only feeding when the crop is empty to avoid this condition. One issue is, I'm not sure how to tell when the crop is empty to safely avoid this, and I know that the slightest mistake can be dangerous. I'm nervous about it, but I want to do what will be best for me and Paarthurnaax's girl. We want her to grow up psychologically, physically, and mentally fit.

Any videos, articles, etc. that will help me?

Also, she's currently 21 weeks(147 days) old. At what point do I stop giving 30 - 40cc feedings and give just comfort feedings of just 2cc's? I'm only assuming she should still be on regular feedings and not purely comfort feedings, and should always be encouraged to eat pellets, veggies, and fruits, but still have the option of formula until she feels she's a big girl and doesn't need it anymore, or until she's of the age where she shouldn't be receiving it anymore.

Edit: She's an U2, for the record. :>

 

[~birdybea~]

Hand rearing can be a lot of fun when you follow the basic rules. You should be able to avoid slow/sour crop by keeping the formula at the right temp (approx. 38C, you can check it with a candy thermometer) and the right consistency (should run through a fork). During the day the crop doesn't need to be 100% empty between feeds, just so long as you let it empty completely over night (so once every 24 hours). As for amount to feed, let her guide you. I always measured the max. feed at 10% of the birds body weight (which avoids over stretching the crop) but you'll find the older she gets the less she'll eat. I would continue offering her a full feed until she no longer wants it all, then keep offering her as much as she wants. She'll wean herself that way, eating less formula as she starts eating more solids. I always kept a variety of solid foods in the cage with my bubs, which they would investigate and eventually eat with little encouragement from me.

The crop sits up high on a parrots chest, in baby birds it's very apparent when it's full (very round!!). You'll be able to feel it gently if it's not completely full or even part the feathers to see what's in there. The skin is very transparent (even in adults) so you can see how much food (and often what type!!) is sitting in there. I can find a photo when i get home (lunch break at work).

 

[Daema]

Hand rearing can be a lot of fun when you follow the basic rules. You should be able to avoid slow/sour crop by keeping the formula at the right temp (approx. 38C, you can check it with a candy thermometer) and the right consistency (should run through a fork). During the day the crop doesn't need to be 100% empty between feeds, just so long as you let it empty completely over night (so once every 24 hours). As for amount to feed, let her guide you. I always measured the max. feed at 10% of the birds body weight (which avoids over stretching the crop) but you'll find the older she gets the less she'll eat. I would continue offering her a full feed until she no longer wants it all, then keep offering her as much as she wants. She'll wean herself that way, eating less formula as she starts eating more solids. I always kept a variety of solid foods in the cage with my bubs, which they would investigate and eventually eat with little encouragement from me.

The crop sits up high on a parrots chest, in baby birds it's very apparent when it's full (very round!!). You'll be able to feel it gently if it's not completely full or even part the feathers to see what's in there. The skin is very transparent (even in adults) so you can see how much food (and often what type!!) is sitting in there. I can find a photo when i get home (lunch break at work).

Oh wow, I had no idea you could even see in there. That's crazy.~

So, are you saying feed only once a day or it's ok to feed, when she cries for it, during the day, but let it empty out during the night?

 

[HeidiAnne]

You can FOR SURE see it, especially when they have just had a feed. Its a nice lump near the breast bone. Temperature and CLEAN feeding instruments are the biggest things you need to know, I would say. I finished my baby Tika's weaning.

 

[Paarthurnaax]

The crop sits up high on a parrots chest, in baby birds it's very apparent when it's full (very round!!). You'll be able to feel it gently if it's not completely full or even part the feathers to see what's in there. The skin is very transparent (even in adults) so you can see how much food (and often what type!!) is sitting in there. I can find a photo when i get home (lunch break at work).

Minus the transparency, it's a lot like that with chickens. I'd forgotten 'til I read that, maybe following this will help me remember

 

[wonderb]

Belinda gave you good advice. IMO handfeeding an older bird is fairly straight forward, and as long as you know the basics, the bird will do the rest. Since she's been eating on her own for a while now, she may just want a night time comfort feeding, or she may revert to two or more feedings a day. I handfed older unweaned babies at a petstore I worked at in High school with little in-person training, so I think you will be able to handle it. One thing to be aware of is that the syringe should be held in your right hand, and the tip should go in the left side of the bird's beak, aiming for the right side of their throat. This helps prevent aspirating the formula. But like I said, an older bird will know what she's doing so just follow her lead, particularly as to the quantity and frequency of feedings.

 

[Daema]

Belinda gave you good advice. IMO handfeeding an older bird is fairly straight forward, and as long as you know the basics, the bird will do the rest. Since she's been eating on her own for a while now, she may just want a night time comfort feeding, or she may revert to two or more feedings a day. I handfed older unweaned babies at a petstore I worked at in High school with little in-person training, so I think you will be able to handle it. One thing to be aware of is that the syringe should be held in your right hand, and the tip should go in the left side of the bird's beak, aiming for the right side of their throat. This helps prevent aspirating the formula. But like I said, an older bird will know what she's doing so just follow her lead, particularly as to the quantity and frequency of feedings.

Ahhh, okie~ Yeh, I remember watching some videos and some people pointed out, to a woman feeding on the right side of the beak, that she was doing it wrong and should feed on the left. I'm right handed, anywho, so that isn't an issue for me.~

 

[Renae]

Here are 2 good articles: The Science of Handfeeding and Weaning the Baby Parrot SECTION 1   The Parrot University and The Science of Handfeeding and Weaning the Baby Parrot SECTION 2   The Parrot University

I would highly suggest keeping track of your U2s weight too, you will be able to quickly notice any signs that the baby could be ill, especially if the baby loses a lot of weight. I keep a record with my babies which is usually date, time, weight, and amount of formula fed. (and added notes if need be)

 

[~birdybea~]

I would feed as often as you like, and as often as your U2 is wanting feedings (within reason). Prior to weaning completely many birds will happily take 2-4 small feeds a day to supplement whatever solids they're eating.

 

[Paarthurnaax]

I would feed as often as you like, and as often as your U2 is wanting feedings (within reason).

I'll have to be careful here. I'm a sucker for the big shiny "Daddy please...?" eyes. Go figure

 

[melissasparrots]

If she hasn't already lost interest on her own at 12-14 months, you cant just suddenly decide to wean her. Everything about weaning is a giant It Depends. You look at the bird's behavior, loosely guided by its age and species and make decisions as you go. With a weaning baby bird, there should only rarely be a time when the bird doesn't have food in its crop. Because it will be eating on its own sporadically throughout the day. The feed only when empty rule is more for younger birds or those that already have an established problem. For that matter, I only make my young babies empty at night. However, that rule usually doesn't apply to weaning birds unless there is a problem going on.

The age at which to go to comfort feedings is also it depends. At 5.5 months, that is a reasonable age for some unbrellas to wean. Some will still be carrying on with a 30+cc night feeding and maybe a small one in the morning. Your situation is complicated because this baby was force weaned. If you offer her formula morning noon and night I feel like she's going to scarf it all down and regress to a very early stage. I'm not convinced that is the right thing to do. I'm not sure there is necessarily a "right" answer here. Personally, I'd try to get by with an evening feeding of formula up to 8-10% of her body weight. If she's crying a lot in the morning, try to get her going with some warm veggies. If thats a no go, then a small hand-feeding of 20cc or whatever seems to be about half a meal will often kick start their appetite.

Finally, I just have to say I have a bad vibe about this. I think the best thing you can do for your bird is find someone local that can mentor you. When it comes to weaning babies, especially when you have no personal esperience at all, advice from internet experts can be a disaster. You need someone who knows you and knows your bird to guide you through this. And, honestly not feeding her any formula at all when you get her home might not be a wrong decision either. If she's not crying when you get her home, then I'd really try to get by without formula. If you do start hand-feeding, I would skip a meal if you ever have a day where she is not crying. Cockatoos are notorious for slugging down the formula and hanging on to weaning for a really long time, and I'm not convinced that has to be the case or that its necessarily good for them. I'd watch her behavior. If she's crying a lot, not just a little wimper and head nod here and there but going on about it, then I'd feed her once or twice a day. If she's not crying or its minimal, I would not offer formula. Above all else, find yourself a mentor.
Melissa

 

[Paarthurnaax]

The thing that makes me nervous about this whole situation is if she's not weaned still when I move in. I'll be looking for work for a while, and there will be days when I'm home all day. I don't know the first thing about cockatoos, so if she starts crying, I may not know how to react...I'm very worried about it, I don't want to be the cause of a behavioral or health problem...

 

[melissasparrots]

The thing that makes me nervous about this whole situation is if she's not weaned still when I move in. I'll be looking for work for a while, and there will be days when I'm home all day. I don't know the first thing about cockatoos, so if she starts crying, I may not know how to react...I'm very worried about it, I don't want to be the cause of a behavioral or health problem...

Sometimes I just walk away. If I know that bird is not really that hungry, and I KNOW she knows how to eat and has food in front of her, then I leave. Sometimes they get so focused on baby begging mode that they just sit there and do that. If you leave and come back an hour or two later, you will very often find she's been into the food bowl. If not, then you know you really do have a bird that needs some hand-feeding. Especially if the weight is going down. The parents will ignore a crying baby at times too, so even though it feels heartless it isn't necessarily. Also sometimes when you have a baby that just wants something because it wants, giving it something different to eat will get it focused on real food. Sometimes its as simple as just sticking your hand in the food bowl and swirling everything around to make it seem new is all it takes to get a crying baby eating on its own. You can also add new food to the bowl to get their interest. Sometimes just the act of sorting through something new will get them eating on their own and you don't really have to do anything. I keep cherrios, zupreem monkey or parrot biscuits, cut up fruit and veggies on hand, frozen and thawed peas and corn. If the baby is a little weepy, I put something new in the bowl and walk away. Generally after a few seconds of realizing yes I am a heartless witch, they will go to the new thing in their bowl and learn they can make that hungry needy feeling go away on their own by eating like a grown up. Weaning is a fine line. You don't want to force it and create an insecure bird that will just sit and cry for hourse. But you don't want to overly coddle them either. There are certain tricks that will often help to move things along without making it a stressful experience for the baby but will get them weaned a little faster without a bunch of formula or baby stuff. And they learn to be a bird first, someone's baby second. A very important lesson to learn IMO.

 

[Daema]

Sometimes I just walk away. If I know that bird is not really that hungry, and I KNOW she knows how to eat and has food in front of her, then I leave. Sometimes they get so focused on baby begging mode that they just sit there and do that. If you leave and come back an hour or two later, you will very often find she's been into the food bowl. If not, then you know you really do have a bird that needs some hand-feeding. Especially if the weight is going down. The parents will ignore a crying baby at times too, so even though it feels heartless it isn't necessarily. Also sometimes when you have a baby that just wants something because it wants, giving it something different to eat will get it focused on real food. Sometimes its as simple as just sticking your hand in the food bowl and swirling everything around to make it seem new is all it takes to get a crying baby eating on its own. You can also add new food to the bowl to get their interest. Sometimes just the act of sorting through something new will get them eating on their own and you don't really have to do anything. I keep cherrios, zupreem monkey or parrot biscuits, cut up fruit and veggies on hand, frozen and thawed peas and corn. If the baby is a little weepy, I put something new in the bowl and walk away. Generally after a few seconds of realizing yes I am a heartless witch, they will go to the new thing in their bowl and learn they can make that hungry needy feeling go away on their own by eating like a grown up. Weaning is a fine line. You don't want to force it and create an insecure bird that will just sit and cry for hourse. But you don't want to overly coddle them either. There are certain tricks that will often help to move things along without making it a stressful experience for the baby but will get them weaned a little faster without a bunch of formula or baby stuff. And they learn to be a bird first, someone's baby second. A very important lesson to learn IMO.

Well, I hate to go against you, but I really think it's best for her, psychologically, if she does feed for several more months after bringing her home. No, you won't see the benefits of it after weaning, but you'll see it as she enters adulthood. I'm just a firm believer in mimicking what their actual parents would do and not doing what we think is 'good enough'.

At any rate, the pet store cut her off feeding on Thursday, and she -does- eat food when she's put in her cage and left there, but she was 480g yesterday and has dropped to 437g, even with nibbling on her pellet diet.

Also, I'm well aware that even their parents will ignore them, at least, for a little while. I'll answer her majority of the times but ignore her others. I'd also mentioned that, each time she cried, I'd offer her pellets or mushed fruits/vegetables to encourage her to eat these things, so she doesn't revert to pure formula, but offer her formula if she just refuses, as she will, at times. I do this at the store, and sometimes she simply won't be swayed to eat on her own and will cry on for hours.

 

[JLcribber]

The weight drop you mentioned "can" be normal if she is fledging. They will naturally lean out a bit in preparation for flight.

In this case the question would be "is she fledging?"

 

[Daema]

The weight drop you mentioned "can" be normal if she is fledging. They will naturally lean out a bit in preparation for flight.

In this case the question would be "is she fledging?"

Yeah, that's what I was wondering, 'cause I knew their weight will drop in preparation to fledge, it's just knowing whether it's because she's been cut off and isn't doing so well on her own, or if her body is preparing to fledge.

Are there any behaviors to look for when they're about to fledge? Or is it determined more on age than behavior? As I said, she's 148 days old, counting today(June, 19th).

 

[melissasparrots]

She dropped that much because they stopped feeding her formula. The weight loss for fledging would have started slowly long ago. If she was going to fledge it would have happened a couple months ago. As you already know, she dropped this much because they were force weaning her. I'm not convinced you quite have your head around weaning, but as you say, we'll find out in a few years as she enters adulthood if not before. I realize telling a pet owner to walk away from a crying baby could be considered "fightin" words to the followers of over-abundance weaning. Hopefully things will go smoothly for you. Make sure you have a gram scale ready to go the very first day you get her home.

 

[Daema]

She dropped that much because they stopped feeding her formula. The weight loss for fledging would have started slowly long ago. If she was going to fledge it would have happened a couple months ago. As you already know, she dropped this much because they were force weaning her. I'm not convinced you quite have your head around weaning, but as you say, we'll find out in a few years as she enters adulthood if not before. I realize telling a pet owner to walk away from a crying baby could be considered "fightin" words to the followers of over-abundance weaning. Hopefully things will go smoothly for you. Make sure you have a gram scale ready to go the very first day you get her home.

I read the article regarding what Abundance feeding -is- and -isn't-, and they explained how some people mistook it for over abundance feeding, stating some birds were still being fed at 2 years of age. I read the articles given about Abundance weaning and it stated that Greys and Cockatoos, and other larger variety parrots, in the wild, are fed by their parental units until 12 - 14 months of age, and the weaning process provides both emotional support and feeding, near that time. Obviously not cutting her off cold turkey, like they've done... but giving her less and less, if she hasn't decided she's 'a big girl' by then and ran from the formula.

I'm not saying that because I think that's what's right, something I've just formed in my head, it's based on what I've learned here from experienced owners here, and owners that I favor methods of and have reported good things from this or that. I know, every bird is different, just as every child is different. This method may work for some birds, and may not work for others, even if it's the same type of bird. It all depends. For now, this is my decision and how I'd -like- to go about things, if there are no issues, with her, with this.

She did maintain her weight of 480ish for 3 days and then suddenly dropped to 437g over night, so it certainly wasn't gradual..

My fellow bird loving employee understands my concerns but... she's not allowed to help. They won't allow her to help, and they won't care for her, either.. I asked if there was anything I could do, she said, if I got caught, it'd land me in some serious trouble, and knowing how those morons are, they'd probably take her back, since she's not fully payed off.

It's sad enough the next baby is sold to a small child before it's even hatched... They don't care who they sell them to, good home or bad home. It's all about the money for them.

Also, I've watched them feed their babies before. I'm just not so knowledgeable on the internal workings, preventing things like slow crop(am now, though), etc. Obviously avoid too much motion(so they won't barf up their meal), take it easy when feeding them, don't go too fast or you'll choke 'em, don't give too much, make sure it's not too hot and not too cold(103 - 105F is about right, I think..), don't massage the crop or any sort after feeding to avoid causing damage, etc.

Plus, my employee friend is someone I can always call up and visit if I need assistance. She's been hand feeding baby parrots, hawks, etc. for 30 something years, and has only lost two, and they were when she was learning.