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Green cheek hybrid?

Discussion in 'Conure Court' started by briabelletee, 5/20/13.

  1. briabelletee

    briabelletee Walking the driveway

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    Could my Olive, green cheek yellow side, possibly be a hybrid? She has an odd splash of crimson red on her wings like I have mentioned before in another post. She also already weighs 72 grams as a 3 month old compared to Hazel at almost 64 grams. Hazel is petite for a greenie but you can see just how big Olive is compared to little Hazel, who is a year old. Olive also has a lot of black on her tail with a light red ring around each tail feather, about a 1/4" wide. When I first got her I was convinced the black was stress bars, and her tail was supposed to be the light red like other greenies. However my vet confirmed this as not being the case. And he answered my hybrid concern with a very vague, "Anything is possible." So what do you guys think?

    I purchased Olive from a chain petstore, and regardless of my attempts they will not release any info on her breeding although her leg band indicates Michigan.




    snacking.jpg red wings.jpg
     
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  2. wonderb

    wonderb Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award

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    It is very unlikely she is a hybrid. If she were, the other parent would have to carry the yellow sided mutation as well, and I don't know of this mutation in any other conure species. It's more likely that she is simply a "high red" yellow sided conure. I suppose she could be 1/4 or less of another pyrrhura species, but I don't think there's any reason to suspect that. She appears to be full GCC and 72g is a normal weight for a green cheek. Do you have a picture of her tail?

    ETA: Has she been DNA'd? YS is a sex linked mutation, so I'm curious if she's a confirmed female.
     
    Last edited: 5/20/13
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  3. Cyreen

    Cyreen Rollerblading along the road

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    I would have to agree with your vet, anything is possible. It's not really relevant unless you intend to breed. Either way, she's a pretty girl.
     
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  4. kathykeltsy

    kathykeltsy Sprinting down the street

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    She is really pretty! I had no idea they could look like that.
     
  5. Sauly

    Sauly Sprinting down the street

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    Beautiful colours! :heart:
     
  6. lwis

    lwis Jogging around the block

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    She looks all GCC to me. Some mutations seem to be larger too, at least from what I have noticed. That said, our Darwin is a regular GCC and heweighs 75 grams usually. I would like to see a pic of her tail too, if you have one.
     
    Last edited: 5/20/13
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  7. briabelletee

    briabelletee Walking the driveway

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    Yellow sided as well as pineapple is indeed a sex linked mutation. It was linked to females and took a long time to get this mutation in males. However that was back in the 90s for yellow sides so now you see male and females regulary in clutches.

    Her size is normal for an adult but at 3 months old she is tracking to be on or above the 90 g average. She weighs more now then our friends 5 month old crimson bellied, only by four grams but still. She is also just as husky as her crimson so it will be interesting to compare them as adults.

    I've also took into consideration that she may not be the age the pet store claimed. Although she is still quite clumsy and lives in Hazels sleep cage as a result, so i can stuff it with "crash" paper so there is less chance of injury, and a heck of a less fall:D

    I haven't dna sexed her, just cuz i have no intentions of breeding. I think its mean to pull a blood feather or clip a nail to the quick for my own purpose, that being said I've been debating on reconsidering now that i have two. Sexual maturing could be troublesome either way, especially if one was to get egg bound. I don't want to go into it blind.
     
  8. briabelletee

    briabelletee Walking the driveway

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    Thank you so much!!! She is an absolute clown.
     
  9. wonderb

    wonderb Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award

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    :confused: At 3 months they will be their adult size. My GCC Rocco was 74g at 3 months and now at 8 years he weighs about 68g. He is normal split to YS and he also has some extra red on top of his wings like your bird does. I saw his parents, he is 100% GCC.
     
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  10. Cyreen

    Cyreen Rollerblading along the road

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    Exactly. Having one bird in my house who bonded to me and actively lays, I think it's important information to have in order to be aware of the possibilities.
     
  11. maimaie

    maimaie Sprinting down the street Avenue Veteran

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    With selective breeding you can obtain a lot of interesting color variations beyond mutations. For instance if you take a clutch of YS babies and pick the two reddest and breed those together the following generation will be redder than the previous two generations. Obviously this is a bad example and you should never breed siblings or otherwise related animals! This example does however show how you can obtain a baby that is "high red". When I was looking for a breeder for my GCC and trying to decide if I wanted a mutation or not I happened upon a webpage for a breeder that had breed two new colors. He started with a YS and selectively breed OUT the color resulting in a bird that was "diluted". The birds where beautiful, but I ultimately decided that I liked GCC the way they are!

    I would also recommend that you have your birds sexed. I understand your philosophy about causing pain for your purposes, but it's better to know and give them the care that will prevent harm in the future if they become egg bound.
     
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  12. briabelletee

    briabelletee Walking the driveway

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    The pic quality isn't that good but it gives you an idea. Olive has the attention span of, well, a GCC, and holds still NEVER! Hazel is on the left and if you look closely you can see the lighter outline of Olive's tail. I have never seen this in GCC, but then agian i haven't seen that many, so perhaps it is completely normal:lol:

    Is dna sexing as grusome as it sounds, do you feel that its necessary for your pets?



    DSC00430.jpg
     
  13. wonderb

    wonderb Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award

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    The difference in tail color is normal because the bird on the left is cinnamon as well as yellow side, while the bird on the right is YS only. Cinnamon mutation lightens the color of the whole bird, while YS only affects certain areas.

    DNA sexing by blood or feather is not painful at all. I always sex my birds.
     
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  14. briabelletee

    briabelletee Walking the driveway

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    Thank you Ellen, that makes me feel alot more comfortable. My vet made it sound like she will continue growing until she reaches sexual maturity, which was making me nervous, thats years wortth of growing:eek:

    So it sounds like my baby is fine and the her Crimson is petite just like my little Hazel... lol. Relief!!!
     
  15. wonderb

    wonderb Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award

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    Might be time to find a new vet. :lol:Birds might gain some muscle with age but they are essentially full grown by the time they wean.
     
  16. Mizzely

    Mizzely Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Crash Test Dummy Vendor

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    For a reference as to how widely the green cheeks vary in size, Koopa is 55g and I know of at least one green cheek who is 90g. :)
     
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  17. briabelletee

    briabelletee Walking the driveway

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    Amy S. I know of the breeder you are talking about, he has sun cheeks, and american dilutes, etc. I had simliar feelings as you on that. Although he claims it is a natural occuring mutation, but he had to breed to get them that diluted? Too confusing?
     
  18. briabelletee

    briabelletee Walking the driveway

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    P.S. Ellen I just wanted to say you have great taste in names ;)
     
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  19. Bokkapooh

    Bokkapooh Ripping up the road Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Well she may grow a few more grams and ofcourse she will grow in personality too:)
     
  20. Monica

    Monica Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    The "sun cheeks" are the result of breeding a new mutation in with others that were already established. As I understand it, the breeder who created the sun cheeks bought the new mutation (that he introduced into his flock) from another breeder.


    I would be surprised if there are any pure green cheek conures left in the USA. There are different subspecies of green cheek conures, which means their colors vary! Some green cheeks have a completely crimson red tail, some green cheeks have green at the base of the tail. Those that have green at the base of the tail may or may not be visible when the bird is relaxed. Some green cheeks have white-grey ears while others have yellow-grey ears. Some green cheeks have a white-ish-grey chest where-as others have a yellow-ish chest. The amount of red on the stomach can also vary depending on the subspecies. Some green cheek conures have blue at the nape of the neck while others don't. Some green cheek conures have blue or blue tinted vent/butt feathers and others have green vent feathers. Not only that, but size/weight also varies between the subspecies.

    Here in America (and I'm sure probably other places as well), we put two similar looking species together and bred them! Same goes for subspecies! The following website shows a bit of a pictorial of the various subspecies (well, some of them).
    green cheeked


    Since Opaline (Yellowside) and Cinnamon are both Sex-Linked mutations, it would be extremely easy to get Hybrid Mutations... you simply pair an Opaline and/or Cinnamon Male Green Cheek Conure with any other species of Pyrrhura!


    If these links work.... here's some hybrid mutations....

    Opaline GCC x MBC hybrid with 3 GCC's
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/229220_10151151051746590_391840702_n.jpg

    Cinnamon GCC x MBC Hybrid
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/400796_284970001613502_1548864603_n.jpg
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/376541_284970344946801_163197704_n.jpg

    Opaline GCC x Pearly hybrid
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/408663_247102382079400_2119280606_n.jpg

    Fallow MBC x Cinnamon GCC (2nd generation?)
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/299475_247103035412668_83052754_n.jpg
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/550766_247103622079276_1876118621_n.jpg



    So.... as you can see (hopefully!), it is very easy to create hybrid mutations!




    Now, as far as the green cheek conure with the red shoulders? I would be surprised if he's not a hybrid! I don't necessarily think he's a hybrid with another Pyrrhura species, just a hybrid within the Green Cheek Conure subspecies. Red on the shoulders isn't necessarily an indication of hybrid, either. It's a trait that some green cheeks are getting, although the color isn't necessarily always red... it could be yellow or even orange.


    Here are some other birds for comparison (could also be hybrids with other species, or just a trait)
    http://i.imgur.com/g1OYZoy.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/WINO2o0.jpg


    www.parrotscene.co.uk

    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/537505_133816816774787_1059438112_n.jpg
    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/255044_309601809150321_54199878_n.jpg
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/255006_309601639150338_130746630_n.jpg

    Maroon bellied with same trait
    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537970_410599582292031_976910106_n.jpg



    (sorry if all the links don't come through correctly!)




    Hope it helps, but I'm afraid I may have made things more confusing!!! :rolleyes:
     

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