Glenn

[LSA]

Even medicated, my rescued IRN bully can beat up any IRN (or person) that comes near him! The only thing the soothes this savage beast is hummingbirds and a tight travel cage!

Desperation once ruled me, but I've decided to stop tiptoeing around Glenn. He wants to be mean? He thinks making me bleed is his best defense? Bleeding arms and hands used to scare me, but not anymore! He only THINKS he's too tough to handle.

Has anyone had an IRN that's just a bully?

 

[sunnysmom]

@cassiesdad ? (I know Titan wasn't a bully. I just thought you might have some advice.)

 

[LSA]

Just so you know, Glenn is who he is. I'd never hurt him. He gets my unconditional love and servitude. It was so frustrating Wednesday when I got home to an angry IRN and then yesterday he seemed particularly out of sorts.
After putting him to bed earlier, I walked past his room and he was obviously awake in the middle of the night. I was at a loss for what to do and was crying when I wrote that.
If only he'd give me a tiny flash of light, endurance would be much easier. No doubt my pity party is nothing like his anger.

 

[sunnysmom]

How many hours of sleep does he get?

 

[MommyBird]

I don't know how long Glenn has been with you?
Anyway I wanted to encourage you to keep your own energy low around him.
You may be able to do some clicker training with him. Even tiny things like walking from one place to another for a treat provides positive interactions and you can build on that.
Remember the only thing you truly can control is how YOU react to things that happen.
With me, suddenly something clicked inside and I could just remain calm and see situations more clearly and calmly.
It helps both you and the birds.

 

[cassiesdad]

Sometimes the whole thing DOES get frustrating...standby, more hugs coming...




You can do it...you can get to the other side with Glenn. When Buddy, the Nanday Conure, arrived here, he'd go through moods. He'd sit with you for awhile, then turn around and bite the living heck out of your hand...for NO reason!

Anyway I wanted to encourage you to keep your own energy low around him.
You may be able to do some clicker training with him. Even tiny things like walking from one place to another for a treat provides positive interactions and you can build on that.
Remember the only thing you truly can control is how YOU react to things that happen.
With me, suddenly something clicked inside and I could just remain calm and see situations more clearly and calmly.
It helps both you and the birds.

Very good advice...we did this with Buddy...once he found out that biting wasn't getting any rise out of us...he stopped biting altogether...he'd just yell at your hand! Hey, that's a LOT better than getting bit there.

You CAN do it...yes, you can! Glenn will learn that biting doesn't make anything happen...no drama, no nothing.

 

[Feathered up]

Lordy child, take a deep breath and relax. Bless your heart, sounds like Glenn is giving you a run for your money.

Do not give him access to your hands for a while. Pick him up with a perch. Everywhere you move him, do it with a perch. If he wants to kill it, let him. Give him no reaction at all. It’s much easier to do that when you’re not bleeding like a stuck pig.

Have fun and do interesting things six feet away from him. Eat apples and peanuts and anything else he likes and play the best you tube IRN videos you can find. Anything you can think of to peak his curiosity and make him come to you.

Then when he does, ignore him until he shows you some gentle interest. If he bites, walk away and take all your goodies with you until the next time.

Every single bird I have ever owned (except the gcc and Cabo) have had periods where they morph into land sharks. The discovery channel could give them their own week!

I will say that both Cabo and Remy are very very ahhhh, boy like right now. Remy is nippy and mating with perches and Cabo is trying to mate the BCC as well as all my curtain rods......my roosters are in high drive also. Glenn may be struggling with hormones. He also may be very afraid and is displaying fear aggression. Be patient.

I totally understand the frustration and fully empathize. You will win him over! Have faith.

 

[LSA]

How many hours of sleep does he get?

Recently, 12 became 13 hours.
Unfortunately for them, but some members have had to put up with my pity parties. Sometimes I wish it were as simple as hormones, but it's not.

Sometimes the whole thing DOES get frustrating...standby, more hugs coming...

Thanks for being so kind and understanding. To know Glenn is to love Glenn. I invited him into my home knowing full well what he was like. I still have my moments.
Tomorrow is cage cleaning day and I already dread it.

I don't know how long Glenn has been with you?

I've known Glenn for a few years, but he's only technically lived here son- to-be 8 months. Again, I've known him for a few years. One reason he came here was that I seemed the only one he responded positively (slightly) to. Before the AV and this forever home, he was simply passed around because he was a biting, self- mutilating bully. That's true, but he's MY biting, self-mutilating bully.
He resists all training (clicker, stick, etc.)
It's time for my. Rescues have been moving in here for almost 4 decades and Glenn is my first "failure." It's scary to admit you're not a dream!

 

[LSA]

Thanks to everyone for the support. Tears are rolling down my cheeks because I've never dared tell anyone before.
7.5 months has been an eternity here. We went to the AV, again, and I had to defend his and my honors. Giving up was the easy way out. I said no. This has become more than about Glenn; it's about me. I question whether this is my selfishness making him live in pain.

 

[Feathered up]

Poor Glenn and kudos to you for persisting.

Glenn isn’t your failure, he’s his own bird. Who knows why Glenn has some of the issues he does and he may never be the kind of tame we want our parrots to be but he can find his way to a place that makes him comfortable. It may just take him a much longer time.

Cabo doesn’t like people. At all. He isn’t tame in the least. Cabo follows Skyy and that’s the only reason the little booger will sit on your shoulder. There are no skritches or treat from my hand but he is a happy little bird and I am content with that. I’ve had a tiel once that was the same way. He was content to be around watching the action and playing with toys but he really needed space between us. After a couple of years he finally got to where he wanted to interact more closely. Cabo, after 9 years is still buck wild.

It’s possible that this will be Glenn’s way too. But in the interim protect yourself from more injury. And lower your expectations of Glenn. Try interaction without using your hands as sacrificial lambs. I’m sure a brake through will come. It may not be the one you’ve hoped for but as long as Glenn is happy, you’ve been successful.

 

[LSA]

I must wonder if I'm doing what's best for Glenn or best for me. Am I forcing him to suffer to make me feel better?

 

[Dartman]

As many here know Lurch was a mad at the world scared to death complete terror for about most of 5 years but he did grow to trust and love me in his own grumpy way and he certainly was happy eventually too. He was a used parrot and quick to bite and had given up on warnings. At the end he'd fly after me like a feathered puppy and loved going into my bathroom and playing and drinking from the faucet. He also like sitting on my knee and snoozing, getting scritches, and treats. I still got bit occasionally but he gave lots of warning and didn't try as hard when he did as he cared for me but had his standards. I slowly won him over by just letting him come and go as he pleased and doing normal stuff around him. He kept getting closer and allowing more interaction till we wore each other down. I have the scars to show for it but it was worth it.

 

[Feathered up]

We ALL do that to some degree. Those of us who love animals are very guilty of imposing human traits onto them. They aren’t human and they have their own ideas about what life they are comfortable in.

It’s easier for me to let the birds be birds but I am very guilty of it with my horses. I finally had to just suck it up and admit one of my mares would never be safe to ride after she caused many injuries over many years. And I don’t mean you just had to buck it out. If she couldn’t buck you off she’d flip over backwards and roll to try to crush you or get on her feet and try to stomp you to death. She’s fat and happy in the pasture eating grass and living as close to wild as possible.

She’s a darling on the ground but her past made it impossible for even the best to make her safe to ride. She passed through many hands before mine and I do kind of feel like I tortured her trying to make her something she just didn’t want to be.

I will never rehome her because people can be stupid. Someone will decide they know better and get hurt or killed and she’ll end up in a kill pen somewhere or they’ll realize I was right and sell her to some unsuspecting novice for their child’s first pony. The thought terrifies me. Point is she just didn’t want to be molded the way I wanted to mold her and I had to let her take her own path to happy. And she is a happy, content horse.

Does Glenn enjoy other birds? I have used other birds that were very bonded to me successfully to get past fosters over difficult periods before.

It’s also possible that Glenn would be happier as an aviary bird. But I would try just being hands off but interactive in other ways, forget trying to “train” and see if he will come to you with his own ideas.

 

[LSA]

Does Glenn enjoy other birds? I have used other birds that were very bonded to me successfully to get past fosters over difficult periods before.

No, he hates other birds so his door stays closed most of the day to avoid an accidental attack. Sherman can't fly so wouldn't survive his attack.

His day cage stays open most of the day in his room allowing him to retreat to its safety or eat and drink as he chooses.

He's just a bully that only likes the hummingbirds THROUGH THE WINDOW that live in my grape arbor and fly to my patio. I had to move a wildbird feeder near his window because the wildbirds that came to eat there upset him

He bangs his head and tries to break his beak on the cage bars. I have walked in to find him attacking himself. My greatest fear is walking into his room to find him dead after chewing a limb off.

His interactions with humans has been far from good. He's so pretty which belies his anger. Too often people would only see his size and beauty and not realize his biting ability or recognize his need for help. I, myself, have wondered how such beauty can inflict such pain.

Glenn's medications are killing him and he seems to be getting worse not better. It's not easy to see his downfall. Yes, he's a bully, but he's my bully.

 

[LSA]

I hate AV visits with Glenn for two reasons, euthanasia is recommended and his life expectancy is shortened. His age is approximately 18.5 years. His life expectancy dropped to 4 more years. I was even told that 2.5 years more is what I should realistically expect.

 

[cassiesdad]

You are not a failure in any way.

Glenn is his own bird...period. He has his physical problems, yes....and emotional problems. At 18+ years old, these problems are probably not going to disappear....so it's part of his "baggage" he carries with him. All mature birds that have lived with humans have baggage, because it's not natural for birds to live in a human "world." But that's another subject for a different time.

Am I forcing him to suffer to make me feel better?

With all due respect, I don't know if Glenn is suffering. He's got a safe environment to be in, plenty of good food , clean water, a place (cage) to take refuge in when he needs it, freedom to fly, if he wishes...and, most importantly...he is loved.

His interactions with humans has been far from good.

He is an IRN...to the max! Most IRNs are fiercely independent birds..Glenn, like I said, is a great example of his species, maybe taken to an extreme. Oh well, Glenn is Glenn.

Rather than despair...embrace Glenn's unique personality! The deep love you have for him is shown throughout your posts...

 

[Feathered up]

Since I’m new, and I’m sure you’ve posted it before, but what health problems does Glenn have and what meds is he on? I ask because you said the meds are killing him.

Self mutilation is such a difficult situation. The cause is often very difficult to pinpoint and ultimately they tend to do irreversible damage. Do you have any idea how long he has had the behavior and does the vet think it’s tied to a medical condition? Has he been allergy tested as that can cause the strangest behavior in any animals.

I am so sorry you’re dealing with all of this with Glenn and I’m sorry for Glenn that he has such difficulties. I wonder what it is about the humming birds (though I share his fascination with them)...do you have a feeder for them close to his window or would he not tolerate them coming closer?

Given what little I’ve read about Glenn, would it be possible for you to contact a holistic vet? Here, I’ve heard, that there are some that will consult via Skype if you have current labwork etc. perhaps there is at least something that would help his anxiety or aid with the side effects of his meds.

You may have tried all of this and honestly I’m just shooting in the dark.

I have been where you are on so many occasions with animals and with people. I worked in cancer treatment and research for 25 years. You always struggle to find balance between what is treatment and what is your own stubborn will to keep trying.

I do hope that there is an answer for Glenn to have some comfortable years. I wish I could do something to make your decisions easier but honestly, nothing about walking that line is ever easy. All I can do is hope for the best and wish for you both the strength you need.

 

[LSA]

I'm taking a break in cage cleanings because you deserve some answers and his room Is next.

MY age is main reason adults mostly are rescued into my home. Luckily, the AV knows me and tends to send the hard cases to me. She heard about the conure boys and wanted kindly to give me some relief (plus she knows I love and know sorta about conures.). She's watched out for me and I for her over her. She's trying to retire and suggested my new AV even.

Glenn has had some behaviorists make suggestions. The latest was one I really trusted. He's had 2 AVs under my care. He came to my house, as sad as it sounds, to die in peace. I fell in love with him and want him to at least not feel threatened by me. Unfortunately, he still sees me as a threat.

At 18+ years old, these problems are probably not going to disappear....so it's part of his "baggage" he carries with him. All mature birds that have lived with humans have baggage, because it's not natural for birds to live in a human "world."

That really describes rescues. I joke that rescues take longer because you have to "untrain" them first. I try to recommend breeder chicks to most bird beginners because the bird more quickly loves and only knows to trust a human. Rescue birds have had bad, even torturous, relationships with humans.

I wonder what it is about the humming birds (though I share his fascination with them)...do you have a feeder for them close to his window or would he not tolerate them coming closer?

Glenn's thing about the hummingbirds is interesting. My only thought was they have the freedom he seeks.

There's a hummingbird feeder at each grape arbor, one by the patio and one by the bigger pond. In front, there's a feeder under each of my camelia trees. That makes a total of 6.

The yard at my house is an acre lot. The front is for shrubs and flowers; the back has a veggie garden and fruit trees. The back has grape arbors and ponds... One is called the Bird Pond because in places it's only a few inches deep and shaded. The birds use it for bathing and drinking and just cooling off. It's near Glenn's window.

I do hope that there is an answer for Glenn to have some comfortable years. I wish I could do something to make your decisions easier but honestly, nothing about walking that line is ever easy. All I can do is hope for the best and wish for you both the strength you need.

Thanks. Driving all that way made me tired and coming home to a bird that hates me made it worse. Then the following day Glenn seemed angrier than usual.

I've avoided discussing him for two main reasons: respect for Glenn (Members would want pictures and descriptions.) and respect for me. I felt like a "failure." I just couldn't deal with it anymore and didn't know what to do with my strongest ever pity party or where else to turn. AA seemed safe to me.

Glenn has taught me many things. He's always dependable. Everytime I open his door, I just know he'll love me and trust me. No doubt, my expectations only make it harder for both of us. Glenn is Glenn. Everytime I open his door, Glenn is there!

 

[iamwhoiam]

You are not a failure. Glenn is lucky that he is with you. Sometimes it takes a long time for a bird to change and sometimes they don't but no need to give up. Just accept Glenn for the way he is now and if he turns that corner then that would be a wonderful thing. I also agree with @Feathered up that perhaps you can find a holistic vet who works with birds and has some other ideas and recommendations. I used to go to one with one of my dogs and my sparrow and would still continue to go there if the vet hadn't passed away. I felt that his treatments and care extended the life of my dog and that Spee wouldn't be here if I hadn't taken him there when he was a baby. I would also take him there for grooming and check ups.

 

[Feathered up]

Agreeing with @iamwhoiam I don’t believe there is a chance for failure as long as we do our best. It’s not that you’ve failed. Glenn is alive and loved and as healthy as possible. The fact that he is alive to be his grumpy self is success. It’s really all about perception. With Glenn, you may just have to change your perception of success.

I’m not certain how poor his health is or why the vets estimate he has only a couple of years left. I haven’t seen him and don’t know if he is in a lot of pain so I can’t really speak to the vets suggestion of euthanasia. I do believe that if that time comes, you just know it and there will be a peace with the decision. Until that feeling comes, it’s likely just not time for that ending.

Really, really my heartfelt best to the both of you! We are always hear to listen.